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Old 13th June 2008, 14:45   #76
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I've read the Arizona driving manual, and it totally matches with Samurai's opinion. It also appears to be logical, though I have never so far parked on an incline or decline.
Even I am not able to understand revharder.
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Old 13th June 2008, 21:00   #77
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I know what Samurai means. Here in San Francisco, there are some insane inclines and declines. Everybody is needed to park their cars with wheels pointing away from the curb on an incline and towards the curb on a decline. This stops the car from rolling in an instance where the handbrake fails or some body parks his car in Neutral!!
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Old 13th June 2008, 21:54   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
I've read the Arizona driving manual, and it totally matches with Samurai's opinion. It also appears to be logical, though I have never so far parked on an incline or decline.
Even I am not able to understand revharder.
I googled to see if there is more than one Arizona, it appears there isn't any, so hopefully the manual I got from the web is the same one you read.

Here is what I find. Let's not debate it again, the standards all across the world is the same.

Note:- The point of contention was only the third case, where there is no kerb.
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Old 13th June 2008, 22:23   #79
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Here's my two cents from the Missouri Driver's Manual. It mirrors exactly what the Arizona manual states above.
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Old 13th June 2008, 22:50   #80
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Now let's not go and post sections from driving manuals across the world. I only posted the AZ manual because vnabhi said it confirms Samurai's thoughts. The third point was the bone of contention, which should be clear now.

Now the horse is pronounced dead, so let's not do this anymore.
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Old 17th March 2011, 14:55   #81
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Exclamation Questions about slope driving and slope parking.

Hi, am a newbie to car driving. Would like to ask for some advice on slope driving and slope parking to the experienced people here. Though I have searched on TeamBHP for related threads, and a few of my queries could be answered, but not all. Hence this new thread.

Please note that in all of the following situations, assume that there is bumper to bumper traffic, and hence no chance for allowing the car to drift backwards (when driving uphill) and similarly in other situations.

Question-1) If I am driving uphill, and the traffic comes to a standstill, which brake should I use to stop the car? Can I use the pedal brake to bring the car to a halt and then the handbrake to prevent it from moving backwards?

Question-2) Now, after I successfully stop my car on the uphill slope, the traffic starts moving slowly. How do I release the brake(s) ? Have read there are two ways - one in which pedal brake is released and immediately accelerator is pressed and the other in which handbrake is released slowly. Am confused as to which one to use, and if possible could you please elaborate on how to do it.

Question-3) After crossing the peak of the slope, now I am headed downhill. The traffic halts again. Which brake should I used now? And why?

Question-4) I heard someone say that when parking on a slope, the gear shaft should be engaged in a direction opposite to the downside of the slope. Let me explain this. If a car is parked on a downhill slope, with the engine side towards the downside (like going downhill), then to prevent it from moving when parked, the reverse gear should be kept engaged (apart from the handbrake being engaged).

And if the car is parked on a uphill slope, with the engine side towards the upside (like going uphill), then to prevent it from moving when parked, the first gear should be kept engaged (apart from the handbrake being engaged).

Is the above true? And should it be followed?

Question-5) If, in a weird situation, am driving backwards (that is in reverse) uphill, which brake should I use and how to stop the car? And once the car is stopped, how should I disengage the brake(s) and start the car again in the same (reverse uphill) direction again?

Question-6) My Maruti Suzuki Owner's Manual (got it when I bought my WagonR recently), mentions a term 'Engine Brake'. What does this mean?

Thank you in advance. My queries might increase as you answer them

Last edited by Dippy : 17th March 2011 at 17:39. Reason: Only two smiles per post. Please go through the Rules. Thanks
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Old 17th March 2011, 17:04   #82
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Default Re: Questions about slope driving and slope parking.

Hey mate, my 2 cents are inline:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhilthemacho View Post

Question-1) If I am driving uphill, and the traffic comes to a standstill, which brake should I use to stop the car? Can I use the pedal brake to bring the car to a halt and then the handbrake to prevent it from moving backwards?

Yup, that's right.

Question-2) Now, after I successfully stop my car on the uphill slope, the traffic starts moving slowly....

Accelerate with a light foot and as you feel the car inching to move ahead, release the handbrake.

Question-3) After crossing the peak of the slope, now I am headed downhill. The traffic halts again. Which brake should I used now? And why?

Stop using foot brake and engage the handbrake.

Question-4) ...
Is the above true? And should it be followed?

Yup, it's true. But if you have a heavy vehicle, some people also advise to place rock/stone to disable the tyre from rolling.

Question-5) If, in a weird situation, am driving backwards (that is in reverse) uphill, which brake should I use and how to stop the car? And once the car is stopped, how should I disengage the brake(s) and start the car again in the same (reverse uphill) direction again?

Always stop the car with foot brake. Then do the reverse of steps in point # 4.

Question-6) My Maruti Suzuki Owner's Manual (got it when I bought my WagonR recently), mentions a term 'Engine Brake'. What does this mean?

Engine braking is to facilitate slowing of the car when the engine is running. Depending on the gear you're in, the engine controls the max speed the car will reach in that gear. For example, if you're going downhill it's advisable to be in a low gear so that the speed stays at a reduced level providing you better control. If you're in a high gear, the car will keep gaining speed and you'll have to apply brakes repeatedly.

Thank you in advance. My queries might increase as you answer them
And this is very important: DON'T EVER PANIC!
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Old 17th March 2011, 17:24   #83
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Default Re: Questions about slope driving and slope parking.

Rearranging the answers will clarify better I think?

Quote:
Question-3) After crossing the peak of the slope, now I am headed downhill. The traffic halts again. Which brake should I used now? And why?

Always stop the car with foot brake. Stop using foot brake and engage the handbrake.

Question-4) ...
Sounds right to me.


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Old 17th March 2011, 17:28   #84
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Default Re: Questions about slope driving and slope parking.

Take my 2 cents too, inline quote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhilthemacho View Post
Hi, am a newbie to car driving. Would like to ask for some advice on slope driving and slope parking to the experienced people here. Though I have searched on TeamBHP for related threads, and a few of my queries could be answered, but not all. Hence this new thread.

Please note that in all of the following situations, assume that there is bumper to bumper traffic, and hence no chance for allowing the car to drift backwards (when driving uphill) and similarly in other situations.

Question-1) If I am driving uphill, and the traffic comes to a standstill, which brake should I use to stop the car? Can I use the pedal brake to bring the car to a halt and then the handbrake to prevent it from moving backwards?

Ans-1) Exactly.


Question-2) Now, after I successfully stop my car on the uphill slope, the traffic starts moving slowly. How do I release the brake(s) ? Have read there are two ways - one in which pedal brake is released and immediately accelerator is pressed and the other in which handbrake is released slowly. Am confused as to which one to use, and if possible could you please elaborate on how to do it.

Ans-2) This is how I manage and thought in my driving school(Maruti). Stop using pedal break. Then engage the hand break. if you sense the traffic is moving, disengage the hand brake, then slowly press the accelerator and at the same time slowly disengage from the pedal break. It should be like a see-saw.


Question-3) After crossing the peak of the slope, now I am headed downhill. The traffic halts again. Which brake should I used now? And why?

Ans-3) Same as above. I may be wrong too. But this is how I use. And if you sense the traffic will not move for atleast more than 5 minutes, you can engage the hand break, but keep the legs on the pedal break. This way, your legs wont ache.


Question-4) I heard someone say that when parking on a slope, the gear shaft should be engaged in a direction opposite to the downside of the slope. Let me explain this. If a car is parked on a downhill slope, with the engine side towards the downside (like going downhill), then to prevent it from moving when parked, the reverse gear should be kept engaged (apart from the handbrake being engaged).

And if the car is parked on a uphill slope, with the engine side towards the upside (like going uphill), then to prevent it from moving when parked, the first gear should be kept engaged (apart from the handbrake being engaged).

Is the above true? And should it be followed?

Ans-4) Yes, true.


Question-5) If, in a weird situation, am driving backwards (that is in reverse) uphill, which brake should I use and how to stop the car? And once the car is stopped, how should I disengage the brake(s) and start the car again in the same (reverse uphill) direction again?

Ans-5) I use only the pedal brake.


Question-6) My Maruti Suzuki Owner's Manual (got it when I bought my WagonR recently), mentions a term 'Engine Brake'. What does this mean?

Ans-6) Already answered above by fellow t-bhp member lordofgondor.

Was curios, so googled and found this wiki. Read through under the category Applications.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_braking

Thank you in advance. My queries might increase as you answer them

Last edited by Dippy : 17th March 2011 at 17:39. Reason: Deleting extra smiley from quoted post
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Old 17th March 2011, 17:38   #85
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Default Re: Questions about slope driving and slope parking.

While Lord of Gondor has answered you well, Im going to add some bits and pieces which you may find handy. comment inline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhilthemacho View Post
Please note that in all of the following situations, assume that there is bumper to bumper traffic, and hence no chance for allowing the car to drift backwards (when driving uphill) and similarly in other situations.

Question-1) If I am driving uphill, and the traffic comes to a standstill, which brake should I use to stop the car? Can I use the pedal brake to bring the car to a halt and then the handbrake to prevent it from moving backwards? First press the clutch, shift down to lower gear (s) to slow down, press pedal brake to slow down further, pull handbrake,get to neutral and release the clutch immediately. Avoid riding the clutch.

Question-2) Now, after I successfully stop my car on the uphill slope, the traffic starts moving slowly. How do I release the brake(s) ? Have read there are two ways - one in which pedal brake is released and immediately accelerator is pressed and the other in which handbrake is released slowly. Am confused as to which one to use, and if possible could you please elaborate on how to do it. With handbrake on, press clutch, place car in 1st gear (always 1st gear only regardless of slope/gradient), Simultaneously start releasing the clutch and handbrake and press accelerator slowly to avoid stalling and you will start to inch forward - the new vehicles have pretty tough axles so less chance of breaking an axle by putting too much strain on it, unlike the old Amby's etc. Dont suddenly release the clutch, else you will stall or in a bad situation you may shear your axle with the excessive strain. Typically you wont find this to be a problem in your Maruti cars or other newer ones because fundamentally they are much lighter in weight than the old gen Amby's and Fiats and MM jeeps etc.

Question-3) After crossing the peak of the slope, now I am headed downhill. The traffic halts again. Which brake should I used now? And why?. Please use the same technique as suggested when proceeding uphill. Always use the same gear that you used while ascending, to descend, more so in cases where the gradient is the same.

Question-4) I heard someone say that when parking on a slope, the gear shaft should be engaged in a direction opposite to the downside of the slope. Let me explain this. If a car is parked on a downhill slope, with the engine side towards the downside (like going downhill), then to prevent it from moving when parked, the reverse gear should be kept engaged (apart from the handbrake being engaged). Please use the handbrake to keep the car stationary. In cases of extreme gradient where you are a little concerned that the handbrake may be under too much strain, when the car is stationary and it is a heavy-ish car, then place the car in first gear and keep the handbrake also on. When you get back to the car, use the same technique as described earler, to get moving. (Of course, if you need to reverse out of your parking slot at that time, then instead of first, you will need to use reverse.)

And if the car is parked on a uphill slope, with the engine side towards the upside (like going uphill), then to prevent it from moving when parked, the first gear should be kept engaged (apart from the handbrake being engaged). Please see above point with description.

Question-5) If, in a weird situation, am driving backwards (that is in reverse) uphill, which brake should I use and how to stop the car? And once the car is stopped, how should I disengage the brake(s) and start the car again in the same (reverse uphill) direction again? This is a rare situation but often occurs when driving about in small hill stations etc. Especially while parking. To stop while reversing uphill, please press the clutch and the footbrake pedal simultaneously and then immediately pull the handbrake, while putting the gear into neutral position and releasing the clutch. While starting in this position, place the car in reverse with the clutch fully pressed and your foot lightly on the footbrake. Release the handbrake and simultaneously start releasing the clutch while pressing the accelerator at the same time - "half clutch" method. This is not exactly the best thing for the vehicle but sometimes there is no option. Again, dont ride the clutch or you will burn it out. You can usually tell by the hot metal burning smell that you are doing something wrong. This is a bit about timing and co-ordination which you will get the hang of pretty soon as you gain driving experience.

Question-6) My Maruti Suzuki Owner's Manual (got it when I bought my WagonR recently), mentions a term 'Engine Brake'. What does this mean?
Engine braking is the term used to descibe the natural tendency of the engine to 'rein-in the car", when one shifts to a lower gear. This is why one downshifts say from 4th to 3rd to 2nd gear when approaching a traffic light for example or if one is going at a good speed in a high gear on a flatter stretch of road in a hill station and then anticipates a curve ahead, whether up hill or down hill. One typically downshifts to slow the vehicle down a bit before taking the curve and to give it that little extra torque/ power to climb the hill around the curve or slow it down in case one is going downhill.

Thank you in advance. My queries might increase as you answer them

Last edited by shankar.balan : 17th March 2011 at 17:41.
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Old 17th March 2011, 20:29   #86
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Lightbulb Re: What is the correct way to park on an incline?

Thank you everyone for your helping advice. Would try them as soon as possible to get a hang of those techniques.

One clarification needed from dre@ms. In response to my Question-2, you wrote "Stop using pedal break. Then engage the hand break. if you sense the traffic is moving, disengage the hand brake, then slowly press the accelerator and at the same time slowly disengage from the pedal break."

I am confused with the underlined parts of the answer. If I have stopped using the pedal break (which means it is disengaged, right?) (and as mentioned in the first underlined part), how can I disengage it? (as mentioned in the second underlined part). Could you please clarify.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 18th March 2011, 01:11   #87
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Default Re: What is the correct way to park on an incline?

Hi all,

I tried doing the trick on a flat ground and it didn't seem to work!! :-(.

Here's what I tried on a flat open ground.

I was wanting to try practicing the release of hand brake while accelerating (trying to visualize in my head that I am driving uphill and my car is starting from ZERO speed - just like the situation of Question-2 ). So I stopped the car on the ground. Engaged the hand brake. Got the 1st year engaged, started slowly removing my foot off the clutch and accelerating at the same time (with the handbrake still engaged). And it didn't move a centimeter. Though as I released the handbrake slowly, it moved.

But my question again is that what if (on a slope, like in Question-2 of mine) when I release the hand brake the car starts going backwards? Because, anyways I won't be engaging the pedal brake. So while I release the handbrake, what if it moves/rolls down?

Or should I give enough press down on the accelerator (resulting in high rpm but zero speed as hand brake is engaged) and then slowly releasing the handbrake? But this might give me an uncontrollable speed jerk in the beginning and I might bang into the car in the front!

I just don't know what to do !!
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Old 18th March 2011, 09:39   #88
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Default Re: What is the correct way to park on an incline?

Like I said, it is a question of co-ordination. Obviously the car wont move if the handbrake is engaged, despite your releasing the clutch while in gear! In fact in a situation like that you are very likely to shear the axle with the strain.

Try this:
Step 1. Start car when it is parked with its handbrake on.
Step 2. Depress clutch fully
Step 3. Engage 1st gear
Step 4. Slowly release handbrake and slowly release clutch while simultaneously pressing the accelerator to get the revs up so as to move forward.

The first few times you may jerk and do a bit of a wheel spin rabbit start etc but if you practice a bit you will get the hang of it - all it requires is co-ordination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhilthemacho View Post
Hi all,

I tried doing the trick on a flat ground and it didn't seem to work!! :-(.

Here's what I tried on a flat open ground.

I was wanting to try practicing the release of hand brake while accelerating (trying to visualize in my head that I am driving uphill and my car is starting from ZERO speed - just like the situation of Question-2 ). So I stopped the car on the ground. Engaged the hand brake. Got the 1st year engaged, started slowly removing my foot off the clutch and accelerating at the same time (with the handbrake still engaged). And it didn't move a centimeter. Though as I released the handbrake slowly, it moved.

But my question again is that what if (on a slope, like in Question-2 of mine) when I release the hand brake the car starts going backwards? Because, anyways I won't be engaging the pedal brake. So while I release the handbrake, what if it moves/rolls down?

Or should I give enough press down on the accelerator (resulting in high rpm but zero speed as hand brake is engaged) and then slowly releasing the handbrake? But this might give me an uncontrollable speed jerk in the beginning and I might bang into the car in the front!

I just don't know what to do !!
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Old 18th March 2011, 12:04   #89
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Default Re: What is the correct way to park on an incline?

@Shankar.Balan. Oh, ok. Now I get it. Will definitely practice it and let you know how I am doing on it. Thank you once again for the genuinely helpful advice, all of you.
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Old 18th March 2011, 17:01   #90
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Default Re: What is the correct way to park on an incline?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhilthemacho View Post
Hi all,

I tried doing the trick on a flat ground and it didn't seem to work!! :-(.

Here's what I tried on a flat open ground.

I was wanting to try practicing the release of hand brake while accelerating (trying to visualize in my head that I am driving uphill and my car is starting from ZERO speed - just like the situation of Question-2 ). So I stopped the car on the ground. Engaged the hand brake. Got the 1st year engaged, started slowly removing my foot off the clutch and accelerating at the same time (with the handbrake still engaged). And it didn't move a centimeter. Though as I released the handbrake slowly, it moved.

But my question again is that what if (on a slope, like in Question-2 of mine) when I release the hand brake the car starts going backwards? Because, anyways I won't be engaging the pedal brake. So while I release the handbrake, what if it moves/rolls down?

Or should I give enough press down on the accelerator (resulting in high rpm but zero speed as hand brake is engaged) and then slowly releasing the handbrake? But this might give me an uncontrollable speed jerk in the beginning and I might bang into the car in the front!

I just don't know what to do !!
Considering you are just starting off, I think you can slightly tweak what Shankar has explained -

1) Crank the engine with the handbrake on.
2) Slot in to 1st gear.
3) Give a slight push to the accelerator. Get the rpm higher than the idling rpm.
4) Release the clutch only very very slightly.
5) Release the handbrake.

Imp thing is to have the accelerator pressed but only slightly (so the engine doesn't die) and the time gap between releasing the clutch slightly and releasing hand brake minimum.

PS : Ensure you have an open space in front of you.

Most important thing : DON'T PANIC. You keep your cool and you'll get the trick faster!
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