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Old 10th February 2012, 22:46   #31
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Default Re: Upshifting from 3rd to 5th - Good or Bad practice

I think speed is not the important thing here. The engine should not be lugged. So as long as you are not straining the engine, there is no harm up shifting or down shifting.
The XUV manual clearly mentions Not to skip two gears! I.e 3rd to 6th. Or worse down shift 5th to 2nd. Down shift double ONLY if you must use engine braking!
We learnt to shift only by ear not by tachometers or speedometers. (Those days no rev-meters) So as long as there is no strain go ahead and save your "knee" or "clutch" - whatever!

Last edited by Gerardfdz : 10th February 2012 at 22:50.
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Old 10th February 2012, 22:55   #32
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Default Re: Upshifting from 3rd to 5th - Good or Bad practice

Doesn't seem to be a problem. Given the right conditions,sparse traffic,not in a hurry i usually skip gears without the engine lugging and all.
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Old 11th February 2012, 23:28   #33
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Default Re: Upshifting from 3rd to 5th - Good or Bad practice

If the rpm is fine and its a highway drive, its no problem if you skip a gear or two.

Thats why there is a tacho in cars. Many people think its increases coolness quotient of a car.
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Old 12th February 2012, 09:35   #34
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Default Re: Upshifting from 3rd to 5th - Good or Bad practice

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post
I do shift a lot of times from 3rd to 5th on all my MT vehicles, but after giving it a bit of a rev in 3rd before shifting.

Why do it- Plain lazyness. I don't believe there are proven benifits or otherwise to the life of the cluth eitherways. But having to press the clutch less may enhance the life of my left knee pad for sure.

While shifting down going from 5th to 3rd is quite frequent or at times even 2nd on rare occations (when braking for a speed bump).

Bottomline wish my Aria had a DSG 6 speed AT to do away with the 5 speed manual. Lesser the shifts the less we tired we get.

Due to the same bit of lazyness I also tend to at times drive at speeds of 100+ in 3rd gear when the shift up followed by going back down is going to be for a shot period of say 5-7 secs. Similarly at times drive at 100-120 in 4th and don't shift up to 5th. Have driven this way even with my earlier TCIC Safari and the clutch did last till about 60K kms each time. So don't see a major impact either way.
In fact I do have the same habit of shifting from 3rd gear to 5th directly in my Alto K10, in fact at times I am in the 5th gear when car speed is between 35 to 45kms.The engine is not at all stalling or struggling and the tacho shows 1800 to 2000 RPM when the speed of the car is 55 to 65 kms.This practice will improve your FC of petrol, that is what I feel.
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Old 16th February 2012, 13:51   #35
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Default Re: Upshifting from 3rd to 5th - Good or Bad practice

Well, here's my two cents on this topic from what I gathered from various sources:

Most modern manual-transmission vehicles are fitted with a synchronized gear box. In a synchromesh gearbox, to correctly match the speed of the gear to that of the shaft as the gear is engaged the collar initially applies a force to a cone-shaped brass clutch attached to the gear, which brings the speeds to match prior to the collar locking into place. The collar is prevented from bridging the locking rings when the speeds are mismatched by synchro rings. The synchro ring rotates slightly due to the frictional torque from the cone clutch. In this position, the dog clutch is prevented from engaging. The brass clutch ring gradually causes parts to spin at the same speed. When they do spin the same speed, there is no more torque from the cone clutch and the dog clutch is allowed to fall in to engagement. In a modern gearbox, the action of all of these components is so smooth and fast it is hardly noticed.

When you shift from 3rd to 5th, the synchronizers get a little more wear since they have to pull the RPMs down further with the longer gear ratio shifts you're doing, because the RPM for a speed of 40kmph @ 3rd gear is more than the RPM for 40kmph @ 4th gear, which in turn is more than 40kmph at 5th gear. Say you shifted from 3rd at 5000 RPM, to 5th. The synchronizer would have to pull the clutch disk RPMs down from 5000 to about 2500 or 3000. A normal shift from 3rd to 4th only has to drop the RPMs a few hundred or so.

But then, the damage is not immediate, but happens in the long run.

In the case of downshifting, we generally tend to skip gears only when the speed reduces significantly. So, it should have the same ill-effect as in the case of upshifting.
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Old 16th February 2012, 15:01   #36
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Default Re: Upshifting from 3rd to 5th - Good or Bad practice

From my experience, I've seen that you don't have to decide which gear to use or if to skip a gear or not. Simply try to slot into any gear (give a gentle push). If it's a correct one, the gear quickly slots in smoothly as if the gearbox snatched the gear from my hand and slotted it by itself.

If something is not correct (like gear or RPM), the gearbox protests a bit. If you give a gentle push, instead of going ahead and slotting in, it comes back into neutral.

Btw, I'm not sure if everyone experiences this in their car. I experience it in my Figo. But my old Esteem didn't complain much when slotted into wrong gear. That could also be because of tall gearing in Esteem.
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Old 16th February 2012, 16:18   #37
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Default Re: Upshifting from 3rd to 5th - Good or Bad practice

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Originally Posted by DevilsCry View Post
From my experience, I've seen that you don't have to decide which gear to use or if to skip a gear or not. Simply try to slot into any gear (give a gentle push). If it's a correct one, the gear quickly slots in smoothly as if the gearbox snatched the gear from my hand and slotted it by itself.

If something is not correct (like gear or RPM), the gearbox protests a bit. If you give a gentle push, instead of going ahead and slotting in, it comes back into neutral.
That is weird. The solution would be to press the clutch fully.

Back to the topic. I generally skip gears mostly while upshifting and my theory remains that as long as the engine is not strained and the car is moving ahead one can use as many combinations one likes i.e. from 1-4, 2-4/5, 3-5, etc. I just do it plainly for better fuel efficiency (higher the gear/ lower the RPM, better the efficiency) and ofcourse laziness of changing gears again and again.
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Old 16th February 2012, 16:22   #38
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Default Re: Upshifting from 3rd to 5th - Good or Bad practice

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That is weird. The solution would be to press the clutch fully
It's too late to edit my post now. I do press clutch all the time while doing what I mentioned in my post. Unlike in my Esteem, even with clutch fully depressed, Figo creates hassle in slotting into wrong gear, as if clutch is not depressed. This helps in giving me feedback about gearing RPM and ratios. It was only through this feedback, I got to know that Figo needs upshifting every 18kph instead of Esteem's 10kph.
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Old 16th February 2012, 17:41   #39
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Default Re: Upshifting from 3rd to 5th - Good or Bad practice

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Originally Posted by DevilsCry View Post
Btw, I'm not sure if everyone experiences this in their car. I experience it in my Figo. But my old Esteem didn't complain much when slotted into wrong gear. That could also be because of tall gearing in Esteem.
It is the same with Alto K10, the gear slots smoothly any any shift sequence 3->5 or 5->3.
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Old 16th February 2012, 19:29   #40
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Default Re: Upshifting from 3rd to 5th - Good or Bad practice

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Originally Posted by DevilsCry View Post
It's too late to edit my post now. I do press clutch all the time while doing what I mentioned in my post. Unlike in my Esteem, even with clutch fully depressed, Figo creates hassle in slotting into wrong gear, as if clutch is not depressed. This helps in giving me feedback about gearing RPM and ratios. It was only through this feedback, I got to know that Figo needs upshifting every 18kph instead of Esteem's 10kph.
Wouldnt pressing the clutch 'completely' allow you to slot any gear you want? That is the purpose of the clutch.

Gear slotting-smoothness should have nothing to do with the speed. If it is happening then there's something wrong with the clutch.

Its only after engaging, i.e release of clutch, that the trouble (if any) should start.

I personally follow the policy of slotting the gear depending upon the speed and intended acceleration. I am under the impression that unless the engine experiences lugging or over-revving it should be fine and so should the clutch.

Experts can correct
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Old 16th February 2012, 19:42   #41
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Default Re: Upshifting from 3rd to 5th - Good or Bad practice

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Originally Posted by Slick View Post
Wouldnt pressing the clutch 'completely' allow you to slot any gear you want? That is the purpose of the clutch.
It's not like Figo doesn't allow me to shift in any gear if clutch is depressed. It gives a tiny & subtle resistance if being slotted in a wrong one. May be Fords have internal mechanism which gives gear-related feedback even if clutch is fully depressed. I thought I was only one feeling it but even my dad and friends say that they get this feeling in Figo.

It's not like that it's only in my Figo since even TD Figo's have this mechanism. It was new for me since I'm used to feedback-less shifting in Maruti's.

It would be really helpful if experts comment on it. I don't think that average person can notice this subtle gear indicator.

Last edited by DevilsCry : 16th February 2012 at 19:45. Reason: Grammar
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Old 16th February 2012, 23:17   #42
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Default Re: Upshifting from 3rd to 5th - Good or Bad practice

The 2nd gear in Jazz is so long (also pointed out in Team BHP official review) that it is necessary to go straight to the 4th gear. Skipping gears is not just okay - but also necessary at times.
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Old 17th February 2012, 00:10   #43
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Default Re: Upshifting from 3rd to 5th - Good or Bad practice

When overtaking on the highway in a diesel Esteem, you will see a lot of 3rd-to-5th action :-) To overtake, you will have to downshift from 5th to 3rd because the Esteem diesel doesn't have as much acceleration as, for example, a Swift. When you are done overtaking, you can shift back from 3rd to 5th.

BTW, in the Maruti Esteem, when I push the gear level, something seems to be guiding it into the right slot... from 1st, it goes to 2nd instead of 4th... from 3rd, it goes to 4th not 2nd. Perhaps it is the shape of the slots that 'helps' in shifting to a higher gear.
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Old 18th February 2012, 04:59   #44
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Default Re: Upshifting from 3rd to 5th - Good or Bad practice

Personally I have not done it. But while learning car, the tuitor used to suggest me to shift directly 3->5 or 2->4, depending on RPM, Speed, traffic and also if the vehicle is in slop.

The reason he gave, it helps in saving Clutch pad and also increase your mileage (by not having to shift multiple gears).
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Old 18th February 2012, 10:30   #45
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Default Re: Upshifting from 3rd to 5th - Good or Bad practice

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Originally Posted by k_nitin_r View Post
When overtaking on the highway in a diesel Esteem, you will see a lot of 3rd-to-5th action
Was the same with the carb Esteem and even more so on the carb Zen. All these are high revving over-square engines, without too much power at the lower end.

You will see less of it in long stroke (under-square) engines since they have flatter torque curves.
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