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Old 12th March 2012, 13:28   #1
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Default Had a bad experience with CNG Installer - Chemotech Fabcon, Andheri

Just want to appraise, how CNG distributors/ retrofitters are cheating to the customer.
I have my baby Zen 2002 MPFI and wanted to install CNG kit as my running has now increased to around 65 km per day.

As a silent follower of Team-bhp, I read couple of post regarding the CNG fitting. Whatever I could gather is as follows

1) Three kinds of CNG kit : open Loop, Closed Loop and Sequential Loop
2) Generally all Italian or Argentina kits are good.
3) All important is the fitment and quality installation

I did research on who are the good fitters in Mumbai/Navi Mumbai as I am residing in Navi Mumbai.

Called up many of the CNG fitters, got their offers and in turn understood little about CNG kits.
Since my baby will is of old engine, sequential is ruled out.

Following are the offers

1) Green Globe – Mulund
a. Open Loop (Greco, Argentina) – 32.5K with RTO
b. Closed Loop (Greco, Argentina) – 35K with RTO
2) Dashmesh CNG Impex – Vashi
a. Open Loop (Bugatti or Tomasetto, Argentina) – 29K with RTO
b. Closed Loop (Buggatti or Tomasetto, Argentina) – 35K with RTO
3) Eco Green – Kharghar
a. Closed Loop – (Lendi Renzo, Italy) – 32K with RTO
4) Chemotech Fabcon – Andheri
a. Open/Closed Loop – 27K with RTO
5) Other Road Side CNG Fitter (from Quickr) – Mulund
a. Open/Closed Loop – 27K with RTO

Out of all these, I read good reviews about Green Globe. They are doing company fitting of CNG kit some good brands apart from many taxies and newly launched TAB cab radio taxies in Mumbai. When I called them, they suggested me that I should bring the car for inspection and then they would suggest whether open loop or closed loop will be good as car is 2002 model.

However I did not visited them coz

1) They are costlier than others
2) They are using Greco kit from Argentina. When I did some research on Greco, I did not find their website. I got an undercurrent that the kit is developed by Green Globe itself hence the name is Greco.
3) They have huge orders of fleet taxies so the priority will not be there for walk-in customer like me
4) They told me the difference between open loop and closed loop as 3K. I did have some doubt that they may be using the china or local made Lambda Control System.

Then I visited Dashmesh Auto in Vashi. The person Mr. Sonu has explained about Bugatti. They said they are the sole distributors of Bugatti CNG kit of Argentina in India. He clarified without me asking that the CNG kit has nothing to do with Bugatti Car Brand. However the person who has invented it was earlier working with Tomasetto brand and then he moved out and started its own brand and are in discussion with Bugatti Car Mfgr for the use of their Brand in CNG kit.
When I told him that the price he quoted for Closed loop is very high compared to what is available in market. He then showed me the original Lamda control system of Tomasetto and explained me followings

1) Many of the CNG fitters use several china made or local made parts taking the benefit of ignorance of the customers. Lamda control system he showed of Tomasetto costs around 5K and there is no compromise on quality. He can use the local made system and charge 3K but he doesn’t do that.
2) He then showed me Vaporiser and told that wherever I do fitting, I should check what make or quality of vaporiser they use. There are many varieties and CNG fitter can take advantage of it
3) He then showed Mixer and said its’ their own design and of huge success. Many people ask their design but they don’t give them.
4) He showed me the ongoing fitting in one of the car. He mentioned that many people use china made high pressure gas pipe and showed me that they use original.

After negotiation he finally offered 28K for open loop and 33k for closed loop.
Now after having got some idea about CNG kit, I started to enquire different CNG fitters in Mumbai. I got a list from Mahanagar Gas website. I contacted Tiwari Motors, they also offered Bugatti kit but for 32K. I then called up Mr. Sonu of Dashmesh and told him that if they are the sole distributors then how can other person offers the kit at low price then them. He explained that yes Tiwari Motor is their vendor and the difference of 1K is due to small vaporizer they use.
I then called up Mr. Abhijit, of Chemotech Fabcon – Andheri. He said they are the sole distributors of Longas Itallia CNG kit. When I asked what’s the cost of Open Loop he said 27K with RTO. I then asked what for Closed Loop. He said no difference in Cost and they generally do closed loop only and the rate quoted is for Closed Loop. I asked whether they use any local or china made components, he said they use all original and told that they are doing the fitment for Sai Services (Big dealer of Maruti in Mumbai).

I thought since they use original Italy kit and a choice of Sai Service and the cost is 6K less than other closed loop kits, let’s visit them. I then went to his workshop/office in Andheri. Mr. Abhijit is typical business man. When I asked him about the Kit details, he said “Don’t worry saab sab kar ke dunga”. I then asked what components they use in the kit? Lamda Sensor make? whether any local made component is used? Coz many people use them. He said “Hamare yah ape khali cylinder and stand local made rahega baki sab imported.” Then I asked whether they put power booster, safety valve, etc. He again said “Saab tension mat lo aap mera kam dekho sab kar ke dunga. Mere yaha jitna cylinder ka stock hai kahi nahi hoga, coz sab taxi wale, Tab fleet taxies yah ape ate hai fit karne”. I asked him whether I can use Credit card to pay. He said “Only Cash” he will accept. I felt kuchh garbad hai…but ignored my inner voice and thought all CNG fitter will ask only cash, so no problem. The deal was for 27K Closed Loop.

I trusted his words and decided to install CNG kit there. I took my car the next day to his workshop. I asked him to show me the kit. He then instructed his boy “Zen ka kit bana de”…!! I doubted what he meant by “Zen ka kit bana de”…why not “Zen ka kit dikha de..”? Then his boy started putting different parts from different bags like timing advance, emulator, HP pipes, mixer, etc. I asked him why he is assembling all parts from different bags…Mr. Abhijit said they order diff parts from Italy and assemble here…! It really looked fishy..as I see most of the component look local made…Again I ignored my inner voice and just checked the Main component is of Longas or not. It was longas so thought its fine. Then I asked him to explain me the kit and its functioning. He said “batata hu” but never he did. His boys started doing fitting. So I went to inspect that. I asked the person where is the lambda control system, he showed ignorance as if he is not aware what is Lambda control system. I again asked him which installation he is doing? Open Loop or Closed Loop? He said Open Loop..!!

I was shocked. I immediately told Abhijit whether they are installing closed loop or open loop as his boy is telling he is installing open loop in my car. He then fired his boy telling him whether he knows what is closed loop or open loop? He then told me “Saab voh last me lagta hai”. I said ok but he must watch the installation ans be sure to install lamda control system. He said “Chinta nai karo aab sab ho jayega”. Meanwhile I was observing that he is assembling many kits even sequential kits and sending to some of his own places for fitment. I show 2-3 taxi walas were coming to show the problem. Again I ignored the inner voice and thought as far as they put lambda control system and closed loop I should not bother if some parts they use local..!
I left their work shop for my office and told him that I will come in the evening to collect the car and repeatedly told him that they must ensure to put Lambda control system. He said ok.
When I called before leaving the office to check whether the car is ready or not..! Mr. Abhijit said “Saab car to kab ka ready hai aap ka”..I asked him whether they have put Lamda control system or not? He said “Sab laga diya hai”.

When I reached the place, the car was ready Mr. Abhijit was not there but his boys were there. I asked him to open the bonnet and show me the kit. And I was shocked to see……they did not put lamda control system and only did open loop installations. The finish of the fitting was very bad. Mixer was very ordinary and pipes also was of not great quality. I asked them where is the closed loop…!!!! Where is the Lamda Control System??? They were seeing each other’s face…! One person said “Saab yeh to raha” pointing to “Emulator” and “Timing Advancer”. I asked him these are not the control system. They said they know only this and call this only as closed loop…!! I showed them on my mobile google what s the lamda control system that uses the oxygen sensor and control the flow of gas to increase the efficiency. I was fuming….at thei ignorance or making fool of me..!! I called Abhijit and shouted that where is the control system??? He said he will talk to his boys…! Meanwhile one of the boy started searching something in my car and showed me one wire and told “Saab aapka yeh oxygen sensor kharab hai pehle usko thik kara ke lao fir maid dal deta hu lamda control system..!” I lost my temper…I said you are making fool of me….how can they say oxygen sensor is not working without doing scan??? And how now they suddenly know about lamda control system…!

They now behaving rudly…and forcing me to replace my oxygen sensor first or else they will not install closed loop. I asked since they did only open loop that too with many local components…I will give only 22K as Lamda control system costs itself around 5K. Meanwhile I tried to call Abhijit, he was not answering my call. But he was talking to his man when he calls. His man asked me “5000 thodi hota hai lamda control ka? Kisne bataya tumko? Meri bat karao use”. I immediately called Mr. Sonu of Dashmesh Auto and put on the speaker phone and asked him the price of only “Original lamda control system”. He said its 5K..! Here Abhijit’s man immediately asked that he is calling from Longas and asked what make of lamda is of 5K. Mr. Sonu said, Tomasetto’s original lamda control system cost 5K. On hearing, this man did not say anything and told me that they are not ok in deducting 5K and threaten me of removing the kit. I ask him that I am sure they are not going to use original lamda control so what is the max discount they can offer in 27K which was agreed for closed loop and they installed only open loop. He asked Abhijit on phone and told Max. 1K. I immediately told them to remove the bakwas kit from my car. They removed the kit within 10 minutes…

I took my car back and drove back to home. Soon after Mr. Sonu called and asked what happened. I said I went for enquiring to Chemtrol Fabcon (Longas Distributor) for CNG kit so was enquiring about Lamda (I did not say that they tried to make me fool…as I planned now to put CNG from him i.e Dashmesh). He then said, Longas is a good kit but I must focus on other components like vaporizer, emulator, fishining, HP pipe, lamda etc. I told him that I saw many local parts in the kits. He said whatever price Abhijit has offered, he can do in 1K less than that by also using the local components like Abhijit kind of people does.

So Mr. Abhijit, Chemtrol Fabcon Pvt Ltd. Andheri who is a Longas distributor is the CHEATER and FRAUD. They tried to sell Open loop (that too with many local components) at the promise of Closed Loop…Guys I wrote this incident in detail so that People must be aware about this kind of Frauds and cheating…..

I then visited Mr. Sonu, Dashmesh Auto in Vashi the next day. He assured me of quality and original fitments only. He suggested that he will do scanning of oxygen sensor and if it is not working than it is better to used open loop only. I said fine. Now I am going to him tomorrow for installation. Lets’ hope he also does not try to cheat me….
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Old 12th March 2012, 22:52   #2
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Default re: Had a bad experience with CNG Installer - Chemotech Fabcon, Andheri

Thanks for sharing, it will be helpful for many. As far as i know about CNG kits, LAMDA control kit is very important. It is indeed necessary to get the fitment done from the reliable dealer.

Mr. Abhijit, if you are reading, its not easy to make a fool out of a BHPian.

Ravi
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Old 12th March 2012, 23:16   #3
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Default re: Had a bad experience with CNG Installer - Chemotech Fabcon, Andheri

Agreed, thanks a lot for taking the time to do this write up. Whatever it is people should take the time to properly research what they fit
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Old 13th March 2012, 00:01   #4
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Default re: Had a bad experience with CNG Installer - Chemotech Fabcon, Andheri

Good on you for doing your homework and knowing exactly what you wanted fitted on your vehicle. Too many people just go there and trust the "snake oil salesmen" and get bad equipment fitted because it is cheaper. I guess now we know why quality items are more expensive.

Thanks for the education in what we need to look for in a CNG kit.
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Old 13th March 2012, 09:25   #5
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Default re: Had a bad experience with CNG Installer - Chemotech Fabcon, Andheri

I was so irritated and frustrated with this kind of CNG fitters...so thought of sharing my bad experience so that other team bhpians are aware about before going for CNG Conversion...
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Old 13th March 2012, 10:23   #6
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Default re: Had a bad experience with CNG Installer - Chemotech Fabcon, Andheri

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGP View Post
I was so irritated and frustrated with this kind of CNG fitters...so thought of sharing my bad experience so that other team bhpians are aware about before going for CNG Conversion...
Thanks for the thread @AGP. Unfortunately CNG kits agencies are dime a dozen, and several of them do a shoddy job, forget about installing geniuine parts. Quite a few of my family friends in Gujarat have gone through the experience of getting a bad kit fit on their car.

Also could you please give more details on the kit equipment(s) - also if you could explain with images and additional details, it'll be helpful to a bigger audience out here.
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Old 13th March 2012, 13:01   #7
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Default re: Had a bad experience with CNG Installer - Chemotech Fabcon, Andheri

Thanks for sharing, it will be helpful for many. Good you opted out of Kit.

Do share your experience with new installation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
Also could you please give more details on the kit equipment(s) - also if you could explain with images and additional details, it'll be helpful to a bigger audience out here.
+1 for this. it will be really useful.



I was in same dilema when i was looking for CNG fitting for my spark. Visited couple of reported/well known fitters. Found out that only lovato gives complete set and no local component. (Other than cylinder.)

Checked complete lovato kit which comes in a box packing. Closed loop = Open loop box components+ Love Eco small box in case of lovato. So opeted for lovato- closed loop (Love Eco). Though fitter told me that open loop will serve purpose for my spark.

I might have shelled out few more hundreds, but there are not local parts and fitting is good. Best part, they had done sparks earlier so thay know what part to be placed where. Spark engine - under bonnet has very little place.

Though i opted for 14 KG cylinder it can take only 9.5+/- cng even at a online CNG station with 200+ pressure. I wonder why? may be it is just a 12 KG cylinder !! Now how do i cross check that?

Last edited by Technocrat : 13th March 2012 at 23:28. Reason: fixed quotes
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Old 13th March 2012, 20:41   #8
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Default re: Had a bad experience with CNG Installer - Chemotech Fabcon, Andheri

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Originally Posted by idea View Post

Though i opted for 14 KG cylinder it can take only 9.5+/- cng even at a online CNG station with 200+ pressure. I wonder why? may be it is just a 12 KG cylinder !! Now how do i cross check that?
check the tank, should have a embossing saying 50 liter or 65 liter water capacity.
50 liter water-carrying capacity is capable of carrying approximately 9 kg of CNG. at 250 psi. problem is, no pump have 250 psi, max 220 psi at HP.

mine says 65liters on the tank. max i have filled is 10.5 kg at 220 psi.

UM

Last edited by UniqueMods : 13th March 2012 at 20:55.
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Old 14th March 2012, 10:41   #9
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Default re: Had a bad experience with CNG Installer - Chemotech Fabcon, Andheri

I have tried locating it on tank, however could not find anything as far as Liter capacity is concerned. Ideally it should have.

So

12Kg=50Lit and can accomodate 9 KG at 250 Psi?
14 KG=65 Lit and can accomodate 10.5 KG at 250 Psi?

You are right even at online pump, max pressure is 220 psi.
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Old 14th March 2012, 10:48   #10
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Default re: Had a bad experience with CNG Installer - Chemotech Fabcon, Andheri

AGP,

Good that you walked away with minimum impact. Where exactly is this shop? I would like to advice by friends to stay from him as well.
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Old 14th March 2012, 13:29   #11
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Default re: Had a bad experience with CNG Installer - Chemotech Fabcon, Andheri

You have mentioned two different names here. In the title the name is CHEMTROL Fabcon Pvt. Ltd. whereas in the post the name is CHEMOTECH Fabcon. So which one is the correct one.

From what I know, Chemtrols Ltd. (and their sister concerns with the same first name) are also based in Andheri East and are a well established company engaged in the field of Industrial Plants & equipment in the field of oil and gas. Chemotech I have heard of for the first time.

Secondly does your Zen's engine still have enough compression to be able to support a CNG kit. If not already checked do get this looked in to before taking up the exercise again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AGP View Post
Following are the offers

1) Green Globe – Mulund
a. Open Loop (Greco, Argentina) – 32.5K with RTO
b. Closed Loop (Greco, Argentina) – 35K with RTO
2) Dashmesh CNG Impex – Vashi
a. Open Loop (Bugatti or Tomasetto, Argentina) – 29K with RTO
b. Closed Loop (Buggatti or Tomasetto, Argentina) – 35K with RTO
3) Eco Green – Kharghar
a. Closed Loop – (Lendi Renzo, Italy) – 32K with RTO
4) Chemotech Fabcon – Andheri
a. Open/Closed Loop – 27K with RTO
5) Other Road Side CNG Fitter (from Quickr) – Mulund
a. Open/Closed Loop – 27K with RTO


I then called up Mr. Abhijit, of Chemotech Fabcon – Andheri. He said they are the sole distributors of Longas Itallia CNG kit. When I asked what’s the cost of Open Loop he said 27K with RTO.
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Old 14th March 2012, 13:56   #12
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Default re: Had a bad experience with CNG Installer - Chemotech Fabcon, Andheri

Sorry my mistake...

It is Chemotech, Andheri. Apart from their conventional chemical businesa they are sole distributor of Longas kit. I agree they are well established...in chemical business...but they are cheating in CNG kit... that's for sure...

My car is perfect and i did scan yesterday. it has MAP sensor issue which is not going to create problem in CNG performance.

let me know if you have different opinion..

Regards,
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Old 14th March 2012, 17:14   #13
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Default re: Had a bad experience with CNG Installer - Chemotech Fabcon, Andheri

Quote:
Originally Posted by @Chaand View Post
AGP,

Good that you walked away with minimum impact. Where exactly is this shop? I would like to advice by friends to stay from him as well.
The shop is in Mahakali caves road, Andheri East.
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Old 14th March 2012, 18:04   #14
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Default re: Had a bad experience with CNG Installer - Chemotech Fabcon, Andheri

As I thought these are two different companies. You may want to report your own post and request the moderators to correct the title.

I used to have a 1996 model zen too and was discussing installing a CNG kit with our local MSM when the compression issue was pointed out to me. Just thought I would give you a heads up, nothing else.

Take care of the old girl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGP View Post
Sorry my mistake...

It is Chemotech, Andheri. Apart from their conventional chemical businesa they are sole distributor of Longas kit. I agree they are well established...in chemical business...but they are cheating in CNG kit... that's for sure...

My car is perfect and i did scan yesterday. it has MAP sensor issue which is not going to create problem in CNG performance.

let me know if you have different opinion..

Regards,
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Old 14th March 2012, 22:00   #15
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Default re: Had a bad experience with CNG Installer - Chemotech Fabcon, Andheri

Hi Khoj

I do not know how to quote post to admin for correction in thread heading...

can u help me..
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