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Old 25th January 2015, 08:44   #76
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Default Re: Fiat Linea and Fiat Punto (90 BHP) Owners. Timing chain issue & recall

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Originally Posted by drdeepudev View Post
That means in the past 1700kms 1.75 litres oil got consumed.


Alarming I must say!

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Originally Posted by drdeepudev View Post
Also im shocked to hear that there is still timing chain sound. This was told by a competent car service centre in my town. It is just 11700km from my last timing chain. I should suspect the quality of work at fiat dealerships. What is the way forward? Should I replace it again?
There is no end to this. You keep replacing the timing chain, oil is consumed like water and after 10K from the last replacement the timing chain goes bust.

To arrest this, do look at what is happening and what is the reason for the oil consumption + timing chain premature failure.

Why not get the head opened and check for the gasket and seals (valve and injectors)?!

Check the pulley's also.

Note: Please don't visit Fiat ASC anymore!
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Old 25th January 2015, 09:50   #77
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Default Re: Fiat Linea and Fiat Punto (90 BHP) Owners. Timing chain issue & recall

Let me recall an incident that happened a few days back. I had to go to a Fiat dealership to service my wife's Punto. Over there I came across a case of a Linea 2011 model (Emotion) which had same problem as Dr. Deepudev's and the Linea was consuming oil like anything. There was no other indicator of engine leaking oil, oil stain, blue smoke, white smoke, nothing on diagnositcs etc. The owner had spent 20,000 last month in service, he changed the timing chain once in 2012 and now he is in extended warranty and Fiat can't solve the problem and refusing to honor warranty claim. The car had run 78,000 kms to date. Oil was changed 7000 kms ago and now again the low oil warning has come back. The owner stuck to the stand that either Fiat honor it's warranty or the job be finished under insurance cover. The owner also stated that he had serviced his car only at FASS and TASS throughout his ownership, never missed a service yet was harassed by the car's constant maintenance problems. The owner had also sent emails to nagash.basavanahalli and mangesh.kodalkar@fiat.in yet never received a satisfactory response.

The service manager was keeping in touch with Fiat HQ while I was in conversation with him and he was asking his accountant to reduce claim amount so that Fiat may approve. Since Fiat already turned down 2 higher claim amounts for this car.

Last edited by lurker : 25th January 2015 at 09:53.
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Old 25th January 2015, 10:06   #78
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Default Re: Fiat Linea and Fiat Punto (90 BHP) Owners. Timing chain issue & recall

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Originally Posted by drdeepudev View Post
A slight update from my side. I drained the oil and got it measured. It was approx 2.25ltrs. That means in the past 1700kms 1.75 litres oil got consumed.

Also im shocked to hear that there is still timing chain sound. This was told by a competent car service centre in my town. It is just 11700km from my last timing chain. I should suspect the quality of work at fiat dealerships. What is the way forward? Should I replace it again?
Can you post a video please of the timing chain noise ? Post one from outside the car and inside the car. Please shoot them when the car is in hot condition aka has reached its normal working temperature.

That's a lot of oil btw to be consumed, did you try the 15-40 route of oil yet?

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Originally Posted by lurker View Post
Let me recall an incident that happened a few days back. I had to go to a Fiat dealership to service my wife's Punto. Over there I came across a case of a Linea 2011 model (Emotion) which had same problem as Dr. Deepudev's and the Linea was consuming oil like anything. There was no other indicator of engine leaking oil, oil stain, blue smoke, white smoke, nothing on diagnositcs etc. The owner had spent 20,000 last month in service, he changed the timing chain once in 2012 and now he is in extended warranty and Fiat can't solve the problem and refusing to honor warranty claim. The car had run 78,000 kms to date. Oil was changed 7000 kms ago and now again the low oil warning has come back. The owner stuck to the stand that either Fiat honor it's warranty or the job be finished under insurance cover. The owner also stated that he had serviced his car only at FASS and TASS throughout his ownership, never missed a service yet was harassed by the car's constant maintenance problems. The owner had also sent emails to nagash.basavanahalli and mangesh.kodalkar@fiat.in yet never received a satisfactory response.

The service manager was keeping in touch with Fiat HQ while I was in conversation with him and he was asking his accountant to reduce claim amount so that Fiat may approve. Since Fiat already turned down 2 higher claim amounts for this car.
WHAT THE HELL ? When he has warranty why would FIAT refuse the claim? All this negative publicity is going to sink their already underwater ship even more.

Last edited by humyum : 25th January 2015 at 10:19.
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Old 25th January 2015, 10:15   #79
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Default Re: Fiat Linea and Fiat Punto (90 BHP) Owners. Timing chain issue & recall

the service manager was telling me that Fiat already had completed training classes for service personnel for 1.5mjd and 1.6mjd but it was their 'market intelligence dept' that was restraining them from launching these models. I restrained myself and didn't spill coffee on the table.
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Old 25th January 2015, 11:11   #80
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Default Re: Fiat Linea and Fiat Punto (90 BHP) Owners. Timing chain issue & recall

I think the reason for such failure's is 15k oil change interval.
Most owners i know, do not bother to check oil level even once in between the service, and 15K drain period is too much for a semi synthetic oil.
I have always stuck to 7-9K kms for oil change, and my Linea is at 1.3L kms without any such issues(touchwood).
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Old 25th January 2015, 11:53   #81
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Default Re: Fiat Linea and Fiat Punto (90 BHP) Owners. Timing chain issue & recall

15K oil change interval resulted in timing chain problem.

there is a second problem with 90ps VGT engines in Linea, Ertiga, Manza etc. And that is unreasonable oil consumption in high mileage (70K+) engines, without any trace of leak, blue smoke, or diagnostic errors. MUL has resolved this problem in Ertiga by overwriting ECU (deleting EGR) and replacing head (short block).

Fiat India, I expect, knows this problem only too well, but is dithering to make it official to dealers level because of shear volume of warranty claims they will receive in return. Also any official announcement on change to ECU wrt EGR will nullify their claims to 1.3 mjd engines BS4 status. Fiat India is simply not coming clean on this issue and is all over the place in this. This could, in my humble opinion, also be one of the reasons the CEO Shri Nagesh for quitting from the post. This is a contentious issue and has the capability to make or break the company if acknowledged in full.

Last edited by lurker : 25th January 2015 at 12:00.
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Old 26th January 2015, 14:30   #82
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Default Re: Fiat Linea and Fiat Punto (90 BHP) Owners. Timing chain issue & recall

Quote:
Originally Posted by drdeepudev View Post
A slight update from my side. I drained the oil and got it measured. It was approx 2.25ltrs. That means in the past 1700kms 1.75 litres oil got consumed.

Also im shocked to hear that there is still timing chain sound. This was told by a competent car service centre in my town. It is just 11700km from my last timing chain. I should suspect the quality of work at fiat dealerships. What is the way forward? Should I replace it again?
The mjd takes 3.1L max. If the drained oil was 2.25L then the oil lost is 0.75L . Did you top-up 1L before draining ?

There is an inspection hole on the timing chain cover, ask a FNG mechanic to remove the inspection cover and check the chain slack.

Also check the oil vapor separator if it is clogged. It is located near the intake manifold.

Low engine oil level or a degraded oil can also cause minor chain noise.
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Old 26th January 2015, 15:16   #83
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Default Re: Fiat Linea and Fiat Punto (90 BHP) Owners. Timing chain issue & recall

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Originally Posted by interc00led View Post
The mjd takes 3.1L max. If the drained oil was 2.25L then the oil lost is 0.75L . Did you top-up 1L before draining ?

There is an inspection hole on the timing chain cover, ask a FNG mechanic to remove the inspection cover and check the chain slack.

Also check the oil vapor separator if it is clogged. It is located near the intake manifold.

Low engine oil level or a degraded oil can also cause minor chain noise.
Small correction, 3.2 liters with oil filter change and 3 liters with only oil change.

If the EGR is deleted how is it being re-homologated to pass emission norms?

Last edited by nkrishnap : 26th January 2015 at 15:17.
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Old 27th January 2015, 12:07   #84
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Default Re: Fiat Linea and Fiat Punto (90 BHP) Owners. Timing chain issue & recall

Update From My Side .Fiat dealership checked my car thoroughly as part of the escalation process with fiat .When the issue was first reported no compression leak was found .As per the current evaluation there is compression leak .Timing chain sound is back .Half engine replacement is the only solution .

Last edited by justin.das : 27th January 2015 at 12:09.
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Old 27th January 2015, 12:35   #85
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Default Re: Fiat Linea and Fiat Punto (90 BHP) Owners. Timing chain issue & recall

what is half engine ? Intake manifold.
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Old 27th January 2015, 12:40   #86
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Default Re: Fiat Linea and Fiat Punto (90 BHP) Owners. Timing chain issue & recall

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Originally Posted by justin.das View Post
Update From My Side .Fiat dealership checked my car thoroughly as part of the escalation process with fiat .When the issue was first reported no compression leak was found .As per the current evaluation there is compression leak .Timing chain sound is back .Half engine replacement is the only solution .
Why half engine ? Can't they overbore it, add new sleeves and add a plus 1 size pistion's ?

How did they suddenly find a compression leak when it was not there the last time ? Engine compression has only one way to be checked by a simple compression gauge.

Ask them to do up all of this under warranty as you have been facing these issues since a long time.

Can you post the compression readings ?
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Old 27th January 2015, 12:49   #87
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Timing chain sound is back .Half engine replacement is the only solution.
Is your car under warranty?
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Old 27th January 2015, 14:30   #88
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Default Re: Fiat Linea and Fiat Punto (90 BHP) Owners. Timing chain issue & recall

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Why half engine ? Can't they overbore it, add new sleeves and add a plus 1 size piston's ?
As per the dealer Fiat recommends half engine replacement for smoother and trouble free ownership . if we opt for half engine replacement fiat will offer 6 month warranty for the parts and will cost around 1.2 lakhs including labor .In other case we are of our own and the cost will be around 60-90 k as per the condition of internal components .

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How did they suddenly find a compression leak when it was not there the last time ? Engine compression has only one way to be checked by a simple compression gauge. Can you post the compression readings
The expected compression was 18 and 13 is the current reading .

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Ask them to do up all of this under warranty as you have been facing these issues since a long time.
Fiat rejected the good will warranty claim as the vehicle is 5 years and 7 months old.Dealer agreed that the issues is there in many vehicles and the fiat is one to blame .since fiat is not ready to do any favor they are helpless .

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Is your car under warranty?
Nope .Car is 5 year and 7 months old .
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Old 27th January 2015, 14:38   #89
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Default Re: Fiat Linea and Fiat Punto (90 BHP) Owners. Timing chain issue & recall

If you are out of warranty, then please remove EGR and delete EGR from ECU so that this problem would not recur. Otherwise even if you change half engine, this problem will come up in another 40,000 kms in city driving conditions.

I would suggest you leave umbrella of Fiat ASS and go for repair outside. You should also supervise to see that work is done to your satisfaction. Can you find a good private garage.
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Old 27th January 2015, 15:35   #90
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Default Re: Fiat Linea and Fiat Punto (90 BHP) Owners. Timing chain issue & recall

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Originally Posted by lurker View Post
If you are out of warranty, then please remove EGR and delete EGR from ECU so that this problem would not recur. Otherwise even if you change half engine, this problem will come up in another 40,000 kms in city driving conditions.
Yes am planning for the same .Still not sure about the re-occurrence of the issue .From this thread alone several possible reasons have emerged.Displacement vs weight factor ,timing chain issue ,Engine Mapping ,Long Service interval ,Dust conditions , shabby service from dealership etc .Still concerned to spend more than a lakh on repair when proper result cannot be guaranteed .To sell there is no re-sale value especially in this condition. To buy a new one i have to shell out 10 lakhs for similar car.

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I would suggest you leave umbrella of Fiat ASS and go for repair outside. You should also supervise to see that work is done to your satisfaction. Can you find a good private garage.
Yes some fellow enthusiast suggested a private garage named Continental Automotive Trivandrum.

Link : https://www.facebook.com/continentalauto
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