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Old 5th August 2016, 18:09   #361
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by tomraven99 View Post
Does anyone have the wiring manual for the new Thar?
Couldn't find it on the internet.
Its there online, just type 'mahindra thar lubrication' in google, first result would be a pdf file of the complete manual
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Old 5th August 2016, 18:54   #362
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by maheep007 View Post
Its there online, just type 'mahindra thar lubrication' in google, first result would be a pdf file of the complete manual
No you misunderstood. I want the wiring diagram manual. The one which you mentioned is the owners manual.
This is the Scorpio wiring manual which I found online.
https://www.scribd.com/doc/254531612...l-Rev3-reduced
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Old 8th August 2016, 16:58   #363
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Issues & Solutions

This is the old scorpios manual wonder if they have it for the later ones with the newer dashboards and Micro Hybrid features. Auto light and rain sensors will have a different wiring diagram from this one.
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Old 9th August 2016, 14:34   #364
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Issues & Solutions

Yeah it seems to be the old one. I guess its company policy not to disclose these service manuals otherwise they must have been on the web by now.
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Old 24th August 2016, 17:08   #365
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Issues & Solutions

Mahindra Thar has a major design flaw. One fan belt drives all.

Recently on August 15 in fact i went off roading with three Thars.

After we completed the first section and were passing through a tarmac carriage section, as I cleared the toll plaza on Palwal Sohna Road to Ballabhgarh intersection road and pulled aside to wait for the two other Thars I saw the two of them collide at the toll booth.

The fan belt of the third ( rearmost ) Thar in the convoy came off and the power brake driven by the same belt became useless the last Thar driver braked but realised the brakes have failed and rammed into his friends car ahead.

We pushed the affected vehicle to a side and once clear of the traffic approaching from behind, examined the vehicle. The fan belt bearing was broken. And this had resulted in the fan belt derailing from its groove shutting off the power brakes.

Any way Sohna town was just 5 KM from this location we purchased a fan belt and a bearing and replaced it.

But this is dangerous. We constantly ask the service centre ( ASC ) to inspect, adjust and replace the fan belt at every service but their standard reply is - Its fine and the system is such that it is self adjusting tension.
If it is then why did this happen ?

Last edited by SDP : 24th August 2016 at 17:48. Reason: Removing last line
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Old 26th August 2016, 07:24   #366
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Issues & Solutions

Im re-posting this because there are so many Thar threads and I really want to share this feedback.

There are two Thar CRde's in HSR Layout for sale in the local dealer place.
One is a 2014 model for which the man wants 7.25 lacs and the other is a 2015 model for which he wants 8 lacs.

I sat about in both of them and twiddled them about a bit.
Im used to the old standard 2112 CC engined MM540 (1987 model) and 2594 cc engined MM550DP (1994, 1996,1999 Models).

When considering the situation from memory I remember the old 540 had a straight gear lever positioned similar to this Thar. But its 4WD lever with H and L etc was right next to it and could be seen quite easily whilst driving.

The 550DP's had a sort of slightly bent gear lever which actually was much much more ergonomic and comfortable while shifting gears at reasonable speeds in the hills, changing up or down was a breeze. Its 4WD lever also was very well placed and each slot was visible from the driving position.

This new Thar Crde on the other hand - the gear lever is ramrod straight - not as ergonomic as my old 550. Most certainly this is true.

Next, the blessed 4WD lever is to the right and slightly behind the gear lever which means the blighted thing is located kind of under the dashboard fascia which means that it is not immediately accessible and one has to kind of "peer" below and really squint to see what slot one wants to put it in, whether 4H or 2H or 4L or whatever. Extremely inconveniently placed.

The funny thing is that in the old MM's there was absolutely no "shift on the fly". One had to be at a standstill if one wanted to shift to 4WD.
These new vehicles say that they are "Borg Warner" manual shift on the fly type. But the positioning of the lever is such that one absolutely has to come to a standstill in order to locate the slot into which one wants to put the 4WD lever!

Very very poor design indeed in my opinion. Most inconvenient!
Of course, I am fully aware that as with all proper 4WD systems it is a good practice to come to a standstill, press the clutch fully, engage whichever slot required of the 4WD and then move ahead in low gear etc. But the positioning in the Thar basically makes it very inconvenient to "test" their "shift on the fly"...

And having not sat in a Thar since the day it was launched, I was most terribly shocked with the insides and the fit and finish and feel and so on.

The blighted machine feels EXACTLY like the 30 year old MM540 and 20 year old MM550's!!
Absolutely NO changes for the better in terms of quality, fit, finish, ergonomics, feel, etc!

And therefore, it leads me to ask, what the hell took these M&M boys so blightedly long to plonk the DI engine and/ or the Crde engine into this vehicle? It is a damnably crude piece of work as a vehicle and 30 years down the line the blighted machine costs 8-10 lacs for the hardtop! And it has absolutely NOTHING in it, in terms of safety kit! Not even ABS!! Bah!

Our 1987 MM cost Rs 1.1 lacs in the Nilgiris - On Road.
The 1996-1999 550 cost about 2.25 lacs in Coorg/ Chikmagalur - On Road.

I am completely stunned that essentially the same vehicle as what we had in the old days, now costs close to 8 times as much or 4 times as much!!

I think while the vehicle looks lovely and is quite torquey and functional and all that, these M&M boys really need to sit up and take notice of consumer feedback especially in terms of quality, fit, finish, finesse and feel and safety and so on etc!

Im truly disappointed that the Indian consumer is consistently being taken for a good long bumpy ride by the manufacturers, even those of such repute as M&M!!!

Really, I just can't get over this at all!
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Old 27th August 2016, 08:46   #367
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Take it for a test drive and you will get over all this.
It drives surprisingly well and the highway behaviour is very good with the crde version.
It's definitely overpriced, finished poorly, etc.. but they don't have any competition at all.
It's these days one really misses the father of the thar "dabhar behram". Was wondering how he would have replied to this..
Just go through all the threads Shankar.balan, it's probably the vehicle that has the maximum amount of discussion about it.
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Old 27th August 2016, 10:18   #368
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Issues & Solutions

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Take it for a test drive and you will get over all this.
It drives surprisingly well and the highway behaviour is very good with the crde version.
It's definitely overpriced, finished poorly, etc.. but they don't have any competition at all.
It's these days one really misses the father of the thar "dabhar behram". Was wondering how he would have replied to this..
Just go through all the threads Shankar.balan, it's probably the vehicle that has the maximum amount of discussion about it.
Here's a reference review by Car Advice Australia - not too bad and not perhaps as uncomplimentary as I am being...but like they say, opinions are very subjective.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/416194/m...-drive-review/

And here is a copy paste comment from that review, just for perspective's sake...
"JHP • 7 months ago
they are charging $25k for a car with no radio, rubbish interior, appalling safety features and designs from the old jeep? i dont see a reason to buy this car, when you can get suzuki jimny with automatic transmission, better equipments and features, better safety, and great offroad capability for around $22k"

Now, as per your post, note that I have indeed gone through all the threads and have been doing so pretty much since the launch.
And Ive driven this Thar along with my father when it was launched. And I ve been a Mahindra user for years too - so have my family members. No longer though!
(My Dad also said exactly what Im saying here by the way..)

Saying that, whatever Mr Dhabhar may have replied, the following details are NOT to be ignored. However much we may like or revere someone, if the truth has to be told, then so be it! Fact is, the Thar is not upto the mark at all in this modern world.

Another thing, just because this vehicle may have the maximum amount of discussion about it, doesn't mean it is "God's Gift" to the paying public. The fact is that right now, there aint nuthin' quite like it which probably catalyses all these discussions amongst the enthusiastic off road community.

However, if the self same off road community were given the choice of a "Trail Rated" Jeep Wrangler Rubicon or Sahara or Unlimited at a fair and equitable price, do you really and honestly think that they would choose this Mahindra Thar over it? To my eyes, no way!

This is exactly the trouble with monopolies - they make these manufacturers complacent to the extreme - just like the protectionist economy Ambassador and Fiat manufacturers were, until Maruti came along and shook 'em up! Or like HMT was, until Titan came, saw, conquered and killed 'em off plus sowed salt on their god darned foundations!

What irks me severely is that these M&M folks have been making Jeep type things since the 1940's (1947 in fact when it was Mahindra and Mohammed...). And now, nearly 66 years later, we consumers are still being fobbed off by M&M with poor quality rubbish!

Yes the engine is good. As is the Borg Warner 4WD system.
But leaky roofs? Poor Ergonomics? Bad safety norms? Useless braking? Poor fit, finish and finesse? You may be willing to excuse these but I certainly am NOT going to.

I certainly won't endorse this vehicle as much as I would like to - essentially it is more or less the same as our old 1980's MM540's or 1990's MM550's with some few trashy bells and whistles thrown in here and there over the last 30 years! For Gods sake even that zig zag line in relief on the front doors is the same, as are the glass windows and winders and so on!

In the same timeline, the original Jeep chaps have completely revamped and developed the bare basic design of the original WW2 vehicle into a first class, safe lifestyle plus off road vehicle, which has plenty of finesse, safety and certainly doesn't suffer from leaky roofs!

Or take the case of Toyota and their FJ Cruiser. What a vehicle it is now! Compared with those old FJ Cruisers of early days!
Cant M&M have done perhaps 75% as much at least?

This is my personal opinion basis years and years of Jeeping about and creeping about in 4WD vehicles. Im sure some will agree and many may not, but that's really their affair!

(By the way, while I also absolutely love Gypsy's and indeed have owned two in my life so far, the same feedback as above, goes for those vehicles as well. Those blighters in Maruti ought long ago to have offered us the Jimny - but in 2016, 30 years after the Gypsy was introduced, they have seen fir to come in with the silly old Brezza which has a lot of bling and jazz but very little functionality by way of off road or 4WD etc...)

Grumble Grumble Rant Rant....thats all I can do really.
So like many others around, I ve gone off and gotten me-self an alternative in the form of the BigFoot SnowMonster which ticks many but not quite all, the boxes...

Last edited by shankar.balan : 27th August 2016 at 10:38.
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Old 27th August 2016, 11:46   #369
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Issues & Solutions

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
However, if the self same off road community were given the choice of a "Trail Rated" Jeep Wrangler Rubicon or Sahara or Unlimited at a fair and equitable price, do you really and honestly think that they would choose this Mahindra Thar over it? To my eyes, no way!

This is exactly the trouble with monopolies - they make these manufacturers complacent to the extreme - just like the protectionist economy Ambassador and Fiat manufacturers were, until Maruti came along and shook 'em up! Or like HMT was, until Titan came, saw, conquered and killed 'em off plus sowed salt on their god darned foundations!

What irks me severely is that these M&M folks have been making Jeep type things since the 1940's (1947 in fact when it was Mahindra and Mohammed...). And now, nearly 66 years later, we consumers are still being fobbed off by M&M with poor quality rubbish!

Yes the engine is good. As is the Borg Warner 4WD system.
But leaky roofs? Poor Ergonomics? Bad safety norms? Useless braking? Poor fit, finish and finesse? You may be willing to excuse these but I certainly am NOT going to.

Or take the case of Toyota and their FJ Cruiser. What a vehicle it is now! Compared with those old FJ Cruisers of early days!
Cant M&M have done perhaps 75% as much at least?

This is my personal opinion basis years and years of Jeeping about and creeping about in 4WD vehicles. Im sure some will agree and many may not, but that's really their affair!

(By the way, while I also absolutely love Gypsy's and indeed have owned two in my life so far, the same feedback as above, goes for those vehicles as well. Those blighters in Maruti ought long ago to have offered us the Jimny - but in 2016, 30 years after the Gypsy was introduced, they have seen fir to come in with the silly old Brezza which has a lot of bling and jazz but very little functionality by way of off road or 4WD etc...)

Grumble Grumble Rant Rant....thats all I can do really.
So like many others around, I ve gone off and gotten me-self an alternative in the form of the BigFoot SnowMonster which ticks many but not quite all, the boxes...
Straight from the heart, right? Impactful post indeed Shankar!

I would beg to differ on Gypsy though; at least it is far superior to Thar from reliability stand point although besides that nothing much has changed in that vehicle barring introduction of a higher displacement fuel injected engine in last 31 years.

Having learnt driving on a petrol CJ back in 1983 which had a three speed antiquated transmission with a low range transfer case, it pains me to see the same old stuff being dished out by the folks at M&M 30 years later.
Have never driven a Thar however I’m sure I’ll not be shocked out of my wits if I were to do so and observe that not much has changed in all these years.

It’s the complacency of the manufacturer coupled with acceptance of the product by the consumer that drives this behaviour however even the consumer cannot be blamed as this is the only choice in this segment at the moment barring Gypsy. One would think that the vast graveyard of brands belonging to yester years would teach manufactures such as M&M something about consistent product development but..

As you rightly said it will take some major shaking up of the segment by a serious player to jolt M&M out of their deep slumber.

I do however see some light at the end of the tunnel; rumor mill has it that Jeep is developing a platform for Asian/South American/African markets which will be slotted below the Wrangler & Renegade. The launch date is ostensibly around 2019.There is a good chance that it will be priced between 16 and 20 lacs.

Now the proverbial question is if it will be good enough? Having interacted with FCA chaps here they say that Jeep will not put their badge on anything that is not worthy of it. There is far too much riding on that brand for FCA to risk it.

This should cause alarm bells to go off at M&M HO. Agreed that Fiat India's operations is in shambles at the moment but FCA has decided to appoint separate dealerships (at least that’s what I’ve heard) for Jeep to give prospective Jeep customers a better buying experience but come to think of it; has a bad dealership experience prevented the Thar/MM/CJ/Bolero/Scorpio/XUV aficionados from buying one; not if you look at their sales figures. If priced sensibly this mystery Jeep could provide a formidable challenge to Thar. So hopefully if all these years we have not seen any substantial improvement in the basic architecture of the platform then this development might trigger that ….

Till that happen, sadly the consumer will be forced to grudgingly buy the same old stuff with a cosmetic improvement here & there and we will continue to vent on these forums…

Last edited by Vikram Arya : 27th August 2016 at 11:50.
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Old 27th August 2016, 15:04   #370
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Issues & Solutions

Just saw a black Thar on the way home a few minutes ago.
There is NO DOUBT that it is a very goodlooking Jeep and a proper head turner.

But I still stand by all my nasty comments made in all the other posts about the Thar. About time someone shook up those complacent blokes back at M&M.

The Jeep Wrangler Unlimited is going to launch in another week or so I believe.

Sadly this will be priced at 5 times more than a Mahindra Thar - 50 Lacs is what Im given to believe, whereas the Thar just about hangs around the 10 Lac mark.

As long as these import duties prevent the Foreign manufacturers from entering with their good offerings at reasonable prices, then this complacent, monopolistic, compromise driven behaviour will continue, from our Indian manufacturers for sure.

Really. Im so displeased at this.
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Old 27th August 2016, 16:50   #371
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Issues & Solutions

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As long as these import duties prevent the Foreign manufacturers from entering with their good offerings at reasonable prices, then this complacent, monopolistic, compromise driven behaviour will continue, from our Indian manufacturers for sure.Im so displeased at this.
Absolutely on the mark Shankar, but if the FC plans go on the track we may have an India built Jeep by 2017 end and then we can at least hope for some competition. For me now it is a Jeep or nothing. And hopefully I can realize my dream early with my movement to the Americas.

Last edited by m_upreti : 27th August 2016 at 16:53.
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Old 27th August 2016, 18:32   #372
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Issues & Solutions

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Absolutely on the mark Shankar, but if the FC plans go on the track we may have an India built Jeep by 2017 end and then we can at least hope for some competition. For me now it is a Jeep or nothing. And hopefully I can realize my dream early with my movement to the Americas.
Ah if you're hanging about Colombia, Venezuela or "Cartel-land" then there's Jeeps aplenty that you can buy Im sure.
Like when we had a partial parking base in North America at least one could enjoy one's fantasies and rent all manner of 4 wheeled beasts for the fun of it including Jeeps and things...
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Old 27th August 2016, 18:50   #373
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Issues & Solutions

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Ah if you're hanging about Colombia, Venezuela or "Cartel-land" then there's Jeeps aplenty that you can buy Im sure.
Like when we had a partial parking base in North America at least one could enjoy one's fantasies and rent all manner of 4 wheeled beasts for the fun of it including Jeeps and things...
Currently, I am spending 3 weeks in Medellin (Colombia) with side trips to Mexico, Bolivia, Panama and the Caribbean's, and 2 weeks in India. On this trip (starting tomorrow) planning to start off on the local driving license. The country has a lot to explore in a 4x4

And yes pre owned, low mileage well maintained Jeeps are aplenty in an affordable range (7-12 K USD).
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Old 27th August 2016, 19:57   #374
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Issues & Solutions

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Currently, I am spending 3 weeks in Medellin (Colombia) with side trips to Mexico, Bolivia, Panama and the Caribbean's, and 2 weeks in India. On this trip (starting tomorrow) planning to start off on the local driving license. The country has a lot to explore in a 4x4

And yes pre owned, low mileage well maintained Jeeps are aplenty in an affordable range (7-12 K USD).
Lucky chap. Ive always wanted to go that side of the world. Will do that one day soon.

And exploring bits and pieces of the Southern American Continent in a 4x4 is one more dream Ive got, yet unrealised though...
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Old 27th August 2016, 20:27   #375
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar : Issues & Solutions

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But I still stand by all my nasty comments made in all the other posts about the Thar. About time someone shook up those complacent blokes back at M&M.
Nasty is a very strong word. I went through your posts and there is nothing nasty in what you have written, it is reality and fact.
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