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Old 14th May 2012, 16:32   #16
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
Could you please confirm whether it states Magnatec 5W-40 or Magnatec B4 Professional 5W-40. The first is semi synthetic and the second is fully synthetic apart from different VW spec compliances.
Magnatec B4 Professional 5W-40
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Old 15th May 2012, 10:42   #17
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

Isn't it weird that Skoda recommends the same oil change interval (15K) for both petrol and diesel vehicles? I guess VW will also be following the same practice. Given our harsh driving conditions, isn't 15K is a bit too long for the oil change, especially diesel vehicles? While there are other threads on this, I have always been skeptical of such a long change interval. I see Honda being over aggressive with their oil change intervals while VW/Skoda being at the other end of the spectrum.
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Old 15th May 2012, 11:22   #18
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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Originally Posted by fuel_addict View Post
Isn't it weird that Skoda recommends the same oil change interval (15K) for both petrol and diesel vehicles? I guess VW will also be following the same practice. Given our harsh driving conditions, isn't 15K is a bit too long for the oil change, especially diesel vehicles? While there are other threads on this, I have always been skeptical of such a long change interval. I see Honda being over aggressive with their oil change intervals while VW/Skoda being at the other end of the spectrum.
You are correct , VW also recommends the same.
Having gone through one 15000 km cycle and having seen and tested the stickiness of the oil , I don't think there should be any concern related to the extended intervals. Synthetic oils retain their stickiness remarkably, only difference would be the colour which turns black . In case one uses mineral oil the interval would have to be shortened I guess.
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Old 15th May 2012, 11:23   #19
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Leave the DPF alone. I still don't know how the oil affects the DPF.

Ha ha ha. very well said.

In fact, IMHO, this whole "VW" rating stuff is a sales Gimmick by VW to reap money from service business. This can be clearly seen by looking at many Mobil 1 and Shell bottles - some carry Merc, BMW and Alfa Romeo approvals but not VW.... And VW change their religion periodically - until 3 years ago, Mobil 1 was the "only" oil approved by them for the Octavia. Then all of a sudden, they discovered that nobody other than Shell can manufacture oil that's worthy to be filled in their engines and now since last six months or so, they lost all their love for Shell and are now infatuated by Castrol.

Forget VW, go by SAE ratings, and use what's appropriate for the weather around.

5W40 is good enough - I have been traveling with it for more than a lakh kilometers over last 8 years.

And to the best of my knowledge, Rapid and Vento do not use any super hi-tech engine. Just regular stuff.

Cheers!

Last edited by anandpadhye : 15th May 2012 at 11:45.
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Old 15th May 2012, 11:42   #20
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

AFAIK, 5w40 is the oil to go by. Whether its Shell or Castrol or Mobil is actually left at the discretion of the dealer.
In another thread, some members have confirmed that the dealers have moved to Castrol, while here in Pune, my A.S.S. still continues to use Shell.
I would have loved to use Mobil, had they not been atrociously expensive. So, currently, the Laura gets topped up with Shell Helix 5w40.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
One assumes that they know what grade of oil to use. I dont know which grade and would like to know what comes in the Yeti? Same as the Rapid or something different?
Any answers and inputs will be welcome!
Thanks!
Shankar, IIRC the oil used for Yeti is similar to that of the one used in Laura's. 5W40. In Pune, the A.S.S uses Shell Helix. My manual does say the same too. Not too sure of the dealers in Bangy though.

Last edited by Swanand Inamdar : 15th May 2012 at 11:51.
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Old 15th May 2012, 14:14   #21
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
Ha ha ha. very well said.

Forget VW, go by SAE ratings, and use what's appropriate for the weather around.

5W40 is good enough - I have been traveling with it for more than a lakh kilometers over last 8 years.

And to the best of my knowledge, Rapid and Vento do not use any super hi-tech engine. Just regular stuff.

Cheers!
I have a car which I am using for more than 12 years and in which I use 5W-40 and the engine still feels like new even after more than 1 lakh kilometers. This does not mean that I base my knowledge on this experience and use 5W-40 in all my other cars. The automotive space is an area where taking certain decisions based on one's earlier experience will catch you out, uncomfortably.

Rapid and Vento are the newer generation diesels to come out of VW and the technology (read metallurgy and not GPS) have been designed to run on oils compliant with VW 507 00.

Thanks.

Mod Note: Let's leave out the personal remarks and other commentary- takes away from an otherwise interesting thread. Thanks!

Last edited by GTO : 16th May 2012 at 12:47. Reason: Keep it cool. Do NOT personally attack other members
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Old 15th May 2012, 14:22   #22
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

Look carefully in the owner's handbook. It took me quite a lot of snooping to get the nos. for my Civic. It often goes by if you cannot get the recommended oil you may use ...
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Old 15th May 2012, 15:06   #23
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
Rapid and Vento are the newer generation diesels to come out of VW and the technology (read metallurgy and not GPS) have been designed to run on oils compliant with VW 507 00.
Please post the information/links about the modern metallurgy used in these (Vento/Rapid) engines and it's impact on the oil rating. Also, how unique is this metallurgy compared to what's used in the other modern cars sold in India (e.g. Cruze, Xtrail, C, 3) such that it can not do with oils that these engines can do with?

Also, if you have, please provide the mapping of VW oil grades to the standard SAE/API grades.

Cheers!

Last edited by GTO : 16th May 2012 at 12:47. Reason: Personal remarks have been deleted from the earlier post
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Old 15th May 2012, 16:08   #24
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Look carefully in the owner's handbook. It took me quite a lot of snooping to get the nos. for my Civic. It often goes by if you cannot get the recommended oil you may use ...
This is worth trying. However I doubt there would be alternative given the current trend of two way mutually exclusive agreements between car manufacturers and oil vendors where oils specified by the manufacturer are not available in the retail market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
I what's used in the other modern cars sold in India (e.g. Cruze, Xtrail, C, 3) such that it can not do with oils that these engines can do with?

Also, if you have, please provide the mapping of VW oil grades to the standard SAE/API grades.

Cheers!
The Cruze's engine has been designed by V M Motori of Italy about 7 years ago and has nothing new in it. BMW has a lock in agreement with Castrol where oils which are similar to VW 507 00 are used . Mercedes now supplies "Mercedes" branded oils to it's dealers. They earlier used Mobil 1.

VW 507 00 oils are usually SAE 5W-30 and some oils are compliant with API SN/CF and ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4.
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Old 15th May 2012, 16:25   #25
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
VW 507 00 oils are usually SAE 5W-30 and some oils are compliant with API SN/CF and ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4.
I seriously think that for Indian conditions 5W40 fully synthetic would be a better choice than 5W30 even though they may be thicker. Even better would be something like 0W40 (from Mobil 1). These can cater to the severe heat conditions as well as fluctuating weather conditions that we face in India unlike Europe where a 5W30 would suffice. And it really does not matter to stick to Shell or Castrol just because the manufacturer has got some (read "commercial") tie-up with them. Any good brand using same (or better) specifications would suffice.

Last edited by dkaile : 15th May 2012 at 16:26.
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Old 15th May 2012, 16:50   #26
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
This is worth trying. However I doubt there would be alternative given the current trend of two way mutually exclusive agreements between car manufacturers and oil vendors where oils specified by the manufacturer are not available in the retail market.



The Cruze's engine has been designed by V M Motori of Italy about 7 years ago and has nothing new in it.

VW 507 00 oils are usually SAE 5W-30 and some oils are compliant with API SN/CF and ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4.
Ok, so Cruze is a 7 years old CRDi - may be like my Hyundai Tucson's engine. How about the Laura CRDi? VW pushed the PD engines into the market till as late as 2009 and started supplying the CRDi engines to the Indian market only with the FL Laura when pollutions norms stepped up in April 2009. Is this engine metallurgically inferior to the Vento CRDi? How? I am not challenging, I am asking.

Also, my understanding is there are commercial (rather than technical) drivers behind "branding" oils. Honda has been doing that for years.

The standard API grades must be printed along with proprietary grades in the vehicle and lubricant documentation. Engine oil should be treated as part of the automobile infrastructure rather than company spares. It's a nexus that should be broken.

I will post the pictures of the Shell Helix untra and Mobil Delvac 1 bottles I have been using for my Laura TSi and Tucson respectively. These oils comply to API grades and optionally to many propriotary grades. Omission of some proprietary grade, more often than not, means the money matters did not work out between the two companies.

IMO, no street legal, series production engine can/should claim to have a dependency on an oil grade higher than the highest API grade commercially availabe at the time of it's launch. It's kind of an "antitrust" situation, if it is allowed.

Cheers!

Last edited by anandpadhye : 15th May 2012 at 16:54.
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Old 15th May 2012, 21:40   #27
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
I have a Skoda Rapid Diesel...
Skoda and Volkswagen dealerships and service heads, they have across the board confirmed that they use Castrol Magnatec / Edge SAE 5W 40 in all models from the Polo to the Passat and the Fabia to the Superb. These oils however conform to VW 502 00 and 505 00 standards and not to VW 507 00 standards.
Not even 506.01 standards (0W-30). Castrol Edge sold in India comes in 3 specs (0W-40, 5W-40 and 10W-60) (check their Indian site: Castrol EDGE 0W-40 | Features and Recommended Engines | Castrol EDGE India) and none are VW 507.00 compliant. However, Castrol Edge 5W-30 VW 507.00 oil is available internationally - and Indian Skoda A.S.S. identify only the name (Castrol Edge) without delving into the variants of Edge available. Hope that answers your questions as quoted below...
Quote:
5. So, why do all the dealerships use Castrol 5W-40? One answer is the heat might justify a higher viscosity but the VW group surely knows that too?
Quote:
So which one should it be and why do the dealerships use a different spec ?
It's called "saving a few pennies by the dealer" also. Skoda also quit their oil partnership with Shell and migrated to Castrol recently.

To meet 507.00 specs for your Rapid Diesel, Skoda should have been using this: Shell Helix Diesel Ultra Extra | Global ; but this is not marketed in India, so the nearest compromise would be for you to use this: Shell Helix Ultra Extra | India (which is meant for petrol engines).
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
What you have written is absolute rubbish - if you do not know about oils and cars it is better not to air your ignorant opinions on a mature forum and risk the probability of misguiding other owners...
VSS, your response quoted above, to...
Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
...IMHO, this whole "VW" rating stuff is a sales Gimmick by VW to reap money from service business.
...Then all of a sudden, they discovered that nobody other than Shell can manufacture oil that's worthy to be filled in their engines and now since last six months or so, they lost all their love for Shell and are now infatuated by Castrol.
Forget VW, go by SAE ratings, and use what's appropriate for the weather around.
5W40 is good enough...
...Rapid and Vento do not use any super hi-tech engine.
...anandpadhye's opinion (which I partly agree with) does not really hold good (and may constitute a personal attack and go against forum rules too), because when you talk about...
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
...newer generation diesels to come out of VW and the technology (read metallurgy and not GPS) have been designed to run on oils compliant with VW 507 00.
...you do not take into consideration that VW themselves recommend VW506.01 specs of oil for non-DPF-equipped cars. Their choice of oil has less to do with metallurgy than to meet emission standards and preserve the precious odds-and-ends inside their exhaust systems. So, if Skoda's Rapid Diesel is indeed equipped with DPF, adding Castrol Edge 5W-40 to the engine may well have partially damaged the DPF in a lot of cars. So, will Skoda void warranty on the exhaust system because their own service people poured Edge 5W-40 into the engines? Find out...
Quote:
Originally Posted by souravc View Post
...seen and tested the stickiness of the oil , I don't think there should be any concern related to the extended intervals.
How do you do this?

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 15th May 2012 at 21:45.
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Old 15th May 2012, 21:40   #28
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
it really does not matter to stick to Shell or Castrol just because the manufacturer has got some (read "commercial") tie-up with them. Any good brand using same (or better) specifications would suffice.
Very true and one of the reasons for this thread.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
How about the Laura CRDi? VW pushed the PD engines into the market till as late as 2009 and started supplying the CRDi engines to the Indian market only with the FL Laura when pollutions norms stepped up in April 2009. Is this engine metallurgically inferior to the Vento CRDi? How?
The Laura CRDI is not inferior in any way to the Vento engines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
Also, my understanding is there are commercial (rather than technical) drivers behind "branding" oils. Honda has been doing that for years.
I would say that there is a techno-commercial reason which benefits both parties and the oil companies and auto manufacturers are leveraging these benefits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
The standard API grades must be printed along with proprietary grades in the vehicle and lubricant documentation. Engine oil should be treated as part of the automobile infrastructure rather than company spares. It's a nexus that should be broken.
There are various grades for oils - API (American Petroleum Institute) is just one of them, then there are ACEA, ILSAC and now the OEM ratings. Breaking the nexus is not going to be easy but the earlier situation where you could by all oils off the shelf was certainly more convenient. In fact, the next step could be if they start teaming up with tyre companies !!
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Old 15th May 2012, 22:59   #29
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Not even 506.01 standards (0W-30)
Obviously not, as the 506.01 standards have been developed for the Touareg R5 and V10 TDI only.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
none are VW 507.00 compliant.
Castrol Edge Professional sold in India is VW 507 00 compliant. Castrol India has a series of oils (termed the Professional range) which are not available in the retail market (and part of the concerns expressed in this thread) some of which are VW 507 00 compliant such as Castrol Edge Professional. (the link is here - Castrol Professional ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Hope that answers your questions as quoted below...
No, because of what I have stated above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
VSS, your response quoted above, to...(which I partly agree with)
The statements that I have quoted as misleading members of the forum are - (1) go by SAE ratings, and use what's appropriate for the weather around.

(2) 5W40 is good enough - I have been traveling with it for more than a lakh kilometers over last 8 years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
So, if Skoda's Rapid Diesel is indeed equipped with DPF, adding Castrol Edge 5W-40 to the engine may well have partially damaged the DPF in a lot of cars. So, will Skoda void warranty on the exhaust system because their own service people poured Edge 5W-40 into the engines? Find out...
The Rapid does not have a DPF, so that is not a concern. DPF is only one of the reasons ( lubricants with low Sulphur, Phosphorus and Sulphated Ashes content are good for DPF's as Sulphated Ashes clog diesel particulate filters so there is a shorter regenerating cycle, higher fuel consumption and engine power loss) for recommending VW 507 00 for engines.

Note: The second post came in while drafting the earlier response so couldn't use the multi-quote option.

Last edited by VeyronSuperSprt : 15th May 2012 at 23:10. Reason: Adding reason for simultaneous post
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Old 16th May 2012, 01:27   #30
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
Breaking the nexus is not going to be easy but the earlier situation where you could by all oils off the shelf was certainly more convenient. In fact, the next step could be if they start teaming up with tyre companies !!
That's my point.
That's why I don't sweat much over the VW ratings.
I use Mobil Delvac 1 5W40 in my Tucson. This oil is rated API CI4 Plus and ACEA E4/E7, which is good enough for my Tucson.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
So, if Skoda's Rapid Diesel is indeed equipped with DPF, adding Castrol Edge 5W-40 to the engine may well have partially damaged the DPF in a lot of cars.
OK, I did not know that Vento/Rapid have DPF in India! My bad...

For cars with DPF, API and ACEA grades are specified:
API CJ-4
ACEA E6/E9

Source:
Car Bibles : The Engine Oil Bible
oilspecifications.org - Lubricant standards and specifications

So the point is - why not buy the right API/ACEA grade oil irrespective of the brand nexus...


On a sidenote: I also vividly remember the 7500 km or 6 months oil change interval that Skoda specified for the Octavia for many years and suddenly in 2009/2010 they changed it to 15000km/1 year! All of a sudden it occured to them that the Octy engine was much better than they originally imagined!!! I have no faith in what Skoda India and their dealers say.

Cheers!

Last edited by anandpadhye : 16th May 2012 at 01:36.
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