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Old 16th May 2012, 09:34   #31
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
How do you do this?
Take a drop of the used oil on forefinger of one hand and a drop of unused oil on the forefinger of the other and test with the thumb . If its sticky then a film will remain when you withdraw the thumb from the forefinger by a small distance ( the oil mimics what it should do inside the engine) . Its pretty standard way done by the mechanics when they are asked to opine whether the oil needs a change.
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Old 16th May 2012, 11:37   #32
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

BTW, I checked the owner maual of my TSi (the Laura owner manual is common for both petrol and diesels).
It says VW 507 00 for the 2L CRDi EU5 engine, but there is an interesting footnote:
"If the oils specified above are not available, oils according to ACEA B3 or ACEA B4 can be used once for refilling."

Poor VW/Skoda customers - if we refill using ACEA oils once and drive 15000KM, it's OK but if we do it again and cover another 15000KM, we are damned....
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Old 16th May 2012, 11:49   #33
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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Obviously not, as the 506.01 standards have been developed for the Touareg R5 and V10 TDI only.
506.01 is specified by VW for use in non-DPF-equipped diesel VW vehicles.
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Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
Castrol Edge Professional sold in India is VW 507 00 compliant.
...some of which are VW 507 00 compliant such as Castrol Edge Professional. (the link is here - Castrol Professional ).
It does not say so on the link you provided (about being 507.00 compliant or VW approved). There actually exist many grades of oil in the Edge Professional range (Castrol Australia - EDGE Professional Range), and we have no idea what Castrol India is selling here. Unless I see documentation from Castrol India about the specs of the Edge Professional they sell here, I am averse about believing that the particular oil that one gets in the Indian market is indeed 507.00 compliant.

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Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
The statements that I have quoted as misleading members of the forum are - (1) go by SAE ratings, and use what's appropriate for the weather around.
Why NOT use API/SAE/ACEA ratings? These are gold standards, and VW specifications are based on these only.
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(2) 5W40 is good enough - I have been traveling with it for more than a lakh kilometers over last 8 years.
If a member here tells us that 5W-40 is good enough, he gets lambasted. If Skoda/VW's service centres fill up your car with 5W-40, they know better! Ha! Some of us on the forum also understand our tribology a little bit, so please give us the benefit of doubt.

Quote:
The Rapid does not have a DPF, so that is not a concern. DPF is only one of the reasons ( lubricants with low Sulphur, Phosphorus and Sulphated Ashes content are good for DPF's as Sulphated Ashes clog diesel particulate filters so there is a shorter regenerating cycle, higher fuel consumption and engine power loss) for recommending VW 507 00 for engines.
506.01 is also a minimal-SAPS oil, but I leave it to you to do your research and find out why 506.01 is not recommended in DPF-equipped cars by VW. OTOH, your Rapid can do without 507.00 (506.01 will be fine) if it is not equipped with DPF as you mention. 507.00 is recommended to meet Euro-V and above.
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Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
That's why I don't sweat much over the VW ratings.
So the point is - why not buy the right API/ACEA grade oil irrespective of the brand nexus...
The brand nexus has its downside for the customer, when we talk about warranties. VAG/Skoda are notorious about being sticklers when it comes to preventing the customer from using non-VAG-branded oil (even if it meets/exceeds VW specs), and find it good reason to void warranty. So using Shell Helix Ultra Extra today will void Skoda warranty even if it was the approved oil yesterday. Out of warranty, do what you please - it's your car after all, and you pay for and maintain it.
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Originally Posted by souravc View Post
Take a drop of the used oil on forefinger of one hand and a drop of unused oil on the forefinger of the other and test with the thumb . If its sticky then a film will remain when you withdraw the thumb from the forefinger by a small distance ( the oil mimics what it should do inside the engine) . Its pretty standard way done by the mechanics when they are asked to opine whether the oil needs a change.
That stickiness - do you test it at room temperature or at 130*C (the usual operating temperature of the oil)?

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 16th May 2012 at 11:50.
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Old 16th May 2012, 14:34   #34
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
That stickiness - do you test it at room temperature or at 130*C (the usual operating temperature of the oil)?
At room temperature , I cannot dare to do this at 130 deg C and land up with burnt fingers This is of course a rough measure
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Old 16th May 2012, 18:37   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt
...the temperature above the top piston ring which can even go upto 160*C and not the "usual" oil temperature which is maintained at less than / around 100*C.
No, just cylinder wall temperature. I don't want lube oil above the top piston ring in MY engine.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 16th May 2012 at 18:38.
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Old 16th May 2012, 20:05   #36
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
It probably means top up and not a full refill - in their lingo.

I may be mistaken here, but I think you have assumed that the higher the VW spec number, the more relevant it is. In fact, the closest alternative to VW 507 that I see here would be VW 505 and not 506.01.
According to me, refill by VW means top-up only.

I feel closest alternative for VW 507.00 would be 505.01 and not 505.00

API rating are a bit confusing according to me, Shell Helix Ultra Extra doesn't mention it anywhere on its site i believe it is API CF, Castrol Professional EDGE VW 507.00 is also API CF, Mobil Delvac 1 available here is API CI-4 PLUS whereas Mobil 1 ESP is API CF which confirms to VW 507.00.

I have been able to source Shell Helix diesel Plus VA: VW505.01 for laura pd after a lot of difficulty, It is again API CF only. Laura Pd has a DPF to pass Euro III norms, so have to stick to VW grades can't risk the DPF.
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Old 16th May 2012, 21:23   #37
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

Hi,
Can someone please list the differences amongst all the various VW specs.

And my personal take: cobranded oils (and coolants) is a stratagem meant to keep dealers happy. I use it only during warranty period. (Disclaimer: I don't own any VW product). Think of the cobranded oil/ changed only by A S S etc as an insurance premium. Your choice on whether to play by these rules or not.

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Old 17th May 2012, 09:17   #38
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Can someone please list the differences amongst all the various VW specs.
Volkwagen introduced its own specifications in mid '90s. Since then this classification system is the starting point for selecting the technically suitable products for all vehicles manufactured by the VW group (Volkswagen, Audi, Seat, Skoda).

Volkswagen Motor Oil Specifications

VW 500.00
Volkswagen specification for multigrade engine oils for gasoline engines with SAE 5W-X/10W-X viscosity. This is an "old" oil specification and is applicable to engines built before model year 2000 (up to August 1999). Oils with an approval made post March 1997 were given an alternative, later VW specification.

VW 501.01
Conventional motor oils suitable for some VW engines built before MY 2000. This is an “old” oil specification and is applicable to engines built before model year 2000 (up to August 1999). Oils with an approval made post March 1997 were given an alternative, later VW specification.

VW 502.00

Oil for gasoline engines. Successor of VW 501.01 and VW 500.00 specification. Recommended for those which are subject to arduous conditions. It must not be used for any engines with variable service intervals or any which are referred to under other specifications.

VW 503.00
Long-life gasoline engine oil for VW cars with WIV (system for longer service intervals). Also meets ACEA A1, SAE 0W-30 or 5W-30 specification.

VW 503.01
This specification is specifically for Audi RS4, Audi TT, S3 and Audi A8 6.0 V12 models with outputs of more than 180bhp, running with variable service intervals (30,000km or 2 years). Now superceded by the VW 504.00 specification.

VW 504.00
The VW 504 00 specification supercedes the VW 503 00 and VW 503.01 specifications. VW 504 00 oils are suitable for engines meeting the demands of Euro IV emissions standards.

VW 505.00
Passenger car diesel engine oil specification, minimum performance level CCMC PD-2. Lists viscosities SAE 5W-50, 10W-50/60, 15W-40/50, 20W-40/50 requiring 13% max. evaporation loss and SAE 5W-30/40, 10W-30/40 requiring 15% max. evaporation loss.

VW 505.01
Special engine oil for VW turbodiesel engines with pump-injector-unit and for the V8 Commonrail turbodiesel engines. Meets ACEA B4 SAE 5W-40 specification.

VW 506.00
These oils are suitable for diesel engines with extended service intervals of up to 50,000km / 2 years. Not for use on engines with a single injector pump. Oil change is indicated by the electronic service indicator. Viscosity is SAE 0W30.

VW 506.01
These oils are especially for "Pumpe-Dse" (unit injector or "PD" engines) running on extended service intervals (30,000 - 50,000km / 24 months). Oil change is indicated by the electronic service indicator.

VW 507.00
Low SAPS oils suitable for Euro 4 engines and almost all VAG diesel engines from 2000 onwards with extended service intervals, unitary injector pumps and also Pumpe-Dse ("PD") engines. Excludes V10, R5 engines and VW Commercial vehicles without fitted DPF (diesel particulate filters) – these must use a 506 01 specification oil.

VW 508.00
This standard is not yet released. It will probably require a low SAPS oil with energy conserving properties.

Source
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Old 17th May 2012, 19:48   #39
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

^^^
Thanks. But I was hoping for something on the lines of 'why' for the various oils. Like 'less ZDDP than this, so ....,' or 'low ash oil, so use on ....'

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Old 18th May 2012, 09:49   #40
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
^^^
I was hoping for something on the lines of 'why' for the various oils. or 'low ash oil, so use on ....'
I can give you some info on the latest VW specs which are VW 504 00 for petrol and VW 507 00 for diesel - these have been specified for engines compliant with Euro IV emission norms (read fitted with sensitive systems for exhaust gas after treatment) . These include both the cat and the dpf. The issues faced are that (1) sulphur and phosphorous can inhibit catalytic convertors and can damage catalytic components and (2) sulphated ashes coming through the exhaust can clog dpfs which will lead to higher fuel consumption (increase in back pressure) and the resultant power loss. VW 504 00 (for petrol engines) and VW 507 00 (for diesel engines) are specifications of lubricants with low Sulphur, Phosphorus and Sulphated Ashes content which are compatible with exhaust after treatment systems and thus enhance their life.


If youd like to get a bit more technical, here are the properties of VW 504 00 and VW 507 00:


Viscosity grade SAE J 300 5W-30
Density at 20C (68F) ASTM D1298 0.848
Viscosity at 100C (212F) ASTM D445 11.7 mm/s
Viscosity at 40C (104F) ASTM D445 72.3 mm/s
Viscosity index ASTM D2270 157
Pour point ASTM D97 -39C / -38F
Flash point ASTM D92 242C / 467F
TBN ASTM D 2896 7.2 mg KOH/g

Information on cars fitted with DPFs within the VW Group in India:

1.None of the models sold in India by Skoda are fitted with a DPF.

2.Within VW India, none of the mainstream cars such as Polo, Vento, Jetta or Passat are fitted with DPFs. However, the Phaeton and the Touareg come with DPFs.

3.None of the models sold in India by Audi are fitted with a DPF.
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Old 18th May 2012, 10:53   #41
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post

2.Within VW India, none of the mainstream cars such as Polo, Vento, Jetta or Passat are fitted with DPFs. However, the Phaeton and the Touareg come with DPFs.
Are you sure about it ? Please refer to the link from Volkswagen India Technical Glossary < Innovations < Welcome to Volkswagen India
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Old 18th May 2012, 11:35   #42
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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Are you sure about it? Please refer to the link from Volkswagen IndiaTechnical Glossary < Innovations < Welcome to Volkswagen India
Yes, have received confirmation from the guys at VW India. Also, mention in a glossary does not imply that all models have all the features listed therein. It just explains the terms.

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Old 18th May 2012, 21:23   #43
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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If youd like to get a bit more technical, here are the properties of VW 504 00 and VW 507 00:
Phosphorus, Sulphur, Ash please.
I believe ZDDP content has to be mentioned on packaging in US as it is considered toxic.

What sort of cams have VW engines have over the years?

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Old 21st May 2012, 09:28   #44
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Phosphorus, Sulphur, Ash please.
Sulfated Ash ~ 0.6%
phosphorus ~ 600 ppm
Sulfur < 0.2%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
I believe ZDDP content has to be mentioned on packaging in US as it is considered toxic.
Yes, although it helps to protect cams, it damages the cat.


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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
What sort of cams have VW engines have over the years?
We are going OT here but VW used black nitrided hardened cams and chrome non nitrided cams across various model years. VW then recognized there was a problem and changed the cams to half black and half chrome cams.

And now getting back to the subject at hand, have used Castrol Edge Professional 5W-40 (in Castrol marketing speak: "our strongest and most adaptive range of engine oils yet") for my Rapid.
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Old 21st May 2012, 21:30   #45
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
Sulfated Ash ~ 0.6%
phosphorus ~ 600 ppm
Sulfur < 0.2%
Now you need similar data for the other VW oils, and premium non VW oils!
Agreed that this does not give you indications for oil change periods, or high temp suitability. But oils of different reputable manufacturers/ blenders for similar applications are quite similar.
Extended drain is something I'm wary of in the Indian context.
VW bread and butter engines (excepting PD ones) follow industry norms. And I've not heard of special/ exotic metallurgy (like say Nikasil coatings). (Disclaimer - Not talking of exotics like the Veyron!)

Quote:
Yes, although it helps to protect cams, it damages the cat.
ZDDP is considered toxic/ harmful for humans. Hence the mention in the MSDS. Only problem is it is not mentioned in ppm. But all have to report by the same (OSHA) standards. So relative comparisons possible.

Quote:
We are going OT
Why would a discussion of cams be considered OT on a lubrication thread?

Quote:
And now getting back to the subject at hand, have used Castrol Edge Professional 5W-40 (in Castrol marketing speak: "our strongest and most adaptive range of engine oils yet") for my Rapid.
Good to know you have solved your dilema.

Regards
Sutripta
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