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Old 12th May 2012, 21:37   #1
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Default Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

I have a Skoda Rapid Diesel and have now done about 4600 kms. Itís now time to a bit of top up of the engine oil and I have the following query:

1. The ownerís manual says the engine oil specification is VW 507 00.

2. I have spoken to the service head at the factory and he recommends Castrol SLX Professional Power Plus LLLIII SAE 5W-30. This oil is a bit different from other oils of Castrol as it has been developed by Castrol in association with the VW group and it conforms to VW 507 00 specifications. The advantage with this oil is that it helps in cleaning diesel particulate filters and helps in prolonging their life in addition to various other benefits. It also conforms to the earlier VW specs such as VW 504 00 / 502 00 etc.

3. So far so good, and the answer seems quite clear as to what oil I need to use. Now comes the other part:

4. Having spoken to various Skoda and Volkswagen dealerships and service heads, they have across the board confirmed that they use Castrol Magnatec / Edge SAE 5W Ė 40 in all models from the Polo to the Passat and the Fabia to the Superb. These oils however conform to VW 502 00 and 505 00 standards and not to VW 507 00 standards.

5. So, why do all the dealerships use Castrol 5W-40? One answer is the heat might justify a higher viscosity but the VW group surely knows that too?

6. Letís assume we get to be brand neutral, even so the viscosity should be 5W-30 and synthetic. Or could it be that the manual is for EU and therefore has shown the viscosity for EU spec cars - this can't be because the engine oil that the factory fills is SAE 5W-30. The other could be availability but this isn't the case as the oil is available.

So which one should it be and why do the dealerships use a different spec ?

Last edited by VeyronSuperSprt : 12th May 2012 at 21:50.
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Old 13th May 2012, 00:22   #2
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
I have a Skoda Rapid Diesel and have now done about 4600 kms
You might want to confirm this by putting across a mail to Skoda.

As far as I have read on team bhp, Skoda India used Shell Helix ultra 5w 40 in laura and superb. VW though uses Castrol Magnetic 5W 40 in their cars in India. Many polo, vento, jetta and passat owners, petrol or diesel, here on team bhp have topped up their VW with the same grade of oil.

I am not sure why the manual specifies 5W 30. Please make sure which grade of oil came with the car. Mixing different grades of oil can harm the engine in long run. In fact even mixing different brands of oil with same grade is not recommended.

Last edited by gaurav_chopra04 : 13th May 2012 at 00:25.
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Old 13th May 2012, 03:52   #3
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
6. Letís assume we get to be brand neutral, even so the viscosity should be 5W-30 and synthetic. Or could it be that the manual is for EU and therefore has shown the viscosity for EU spec cars - this can't be because the engine oil that the factory fills is SAE 5W-30. The other could be availability but this isn't the case as the oil is available.

So which one should it be and why do the dealerships use a different spec ?
Its preferable to use an engine oil of 10W-40 or 5W-50 spec as compared to 5W-30 spec in Chennai . Given the higher ambient temp and harsh summers , you have to pick up an engine oil with a higher value of higher temp viscosity number ( the second number) so that the oil does not thin too much and stickiness remains at higher temp. As the winters in plains in India are not harsh we can very well live with a higher "W" i.e. winter viscosity spec as the cold cranking temp are unlikely to go down to sub zero.

I prefer to use Mobil1 for my Vento and use their 5W-50 synthetic oil . I think the manual is EU spec so it specifies 5W-30, having said that its unlikely that you are likely to have any catastrophic impact but who knows with extended use its 5W-30 is more likely to provide your engine with less protection against wear and tear. Ventos manual states Magnatec 5W-40 so i am a bit surprised that Rapid's is different
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Old 13th May 2012, 07:38   #4
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

Interesting thread!
My Yeti has just crossed 5000 kms. I ve been asked to come for a free checkup at 7500kms when the dealer service chaps said they will check everything and top up all necessary fluids etc.
One assumes that they know what grade of oil to use. I dont know which grade and would like to know what comes in the Yeti? Same as the Rapid or something different?
Any answers and inputs will be welcome!
Thanks!
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Old 13th May 2012, 09:27   #5
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

@sauravc; I think SAE 30 oils are the norm for modern engines irrespective of the firm.

@shankar.balan; I am not too sure they know (or even care to know) in the W/S. There are a lot of documented cases here where they were trying to fob off SAE 30 oil in older Maruti Engines. One person had to go the Maruti and get confirmation till they budged.

Honda ever since they started filling Synthetic have the oil change in new cars at 6 months and not at 3. Most (if not all) are still changing at 3 months, and that too with a mineral!

Last edited by sgiitk : 13th May 2012 at 09:28.
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Old 13th May 2012, 12:34   #6
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
... The advantage with this oil is that it helps in cleaning diesel particulate filters...


... So, why do all the dealerships use Castrol 5W-40? One answer is the heat might justify a higher viscosity but the VW group surely knows that too?...
I think, EU specific cars came with the DPF, but not the Indian version. DPF is mandatory only in Euro 5, and also, DPF is too hard and expensive to maintain.
Quote:
So which one should it be and why do the dealerships use a different spec
Hence, I guess 5W-40 should be OK.
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Old 13th May 2012, 16:41   #7
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
@sauravc; I think SAE 30 oils are the norm for modern engines irrespective of the firm.
@shankar.balan; I am not too sure they know (or even care to know) in the W/S. There are a lot of documented cases here where they were trying to fob off SAE 30 oil in older Maruti Engines. One person had to go the Maruti and get confirmation till they budged.
For VW it's SAE 40 which I think is better for Indian hot conditions . Maruti has been using 10W - 40 for years, winter viscosity is not so much of an issue for tropical climates of India the high temp viscosity is most important especially if long drives are more frequent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Honda ever since they started filling Synthetic have the oil change in new cars at 6 months and not at 3. Most (if not all) are still changing at 3 months, and that too with a mineral!
For a few of the cars like VW its once a year (or 15,000 km) - synthetic oil retains its stickiness quite well . I did an oil change after 15K km, the stickiness of the oil was quite good though the colour of the oil had turned black
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Old 13th May 2012, 18:58   #8
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

Thanks for your responses guys. Please see mine below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04 View Post
You might want to confirm this by putting across a mail to Skoda.
Don't need to, it's in the manual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04 View Post
As far as I have read on team bhp, Skoda India used Shell Helix ultra 5w 40 in laura and superb. VW though uses Castrol Magnetic 5W 40 in their cars in India. Many polo, vento, jetta and passat owners, petrol or diesel, here on team bhp have topped up their VW with the same grade of oil.
Shell were the earlier lubricant partners of VW. As I mentioned in my earlier post, VW and Castrol now work together in developing products that comply with VW requirements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04 View Post
I am not sure why the manual specifies 5W 30.
The manual doesn't specify 5W-30. It specifies VW 507 00. However the oils that conform to VW 507.00 are the Castrol SLX Professional Power Plus LL111 5W-30 , Castrol Edge Professional 5W-30, Shell Helix Ultra Extra 5W-30 and Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30.


Quote:
Originally Posted by souravc View Post
Its preferable to use an engine oil of 10W-40 or 5W-50 spec as compared to 5W-30 spec in Chennai . Given the higher ambient temp and harsh summers , you have to pick up an engine oil with a higher value of higher temp viscosity number ( the second number) so that the oil does not thin too much and stickiness remains at higher temp. As the winters in plains in India are not harsh we can very well live with a higher "W" i.e. winter viscosity spec as the cold cranking temp are unlikely to go down to sub zero.
Not really. Although as an earlier rule of thumb, indications of relevant ambient temperature for viscosity ratings specified that 5W-30 was for ambient temeratures not exceeding 30 deg C, newer technologies have changed this earlier rule of thumb. Modern engines are developed to work on lower viscosity ratings in the interests of better fuel economy: lower viscosity Ė better fuel efficiency Ė lower NVH and better power. Maruti is an ideal example here as they have moved from recommending 10w-40 (specified earlier as usable for ambient temperatures upto 50 deg C) to 10w 30 (specified earlier as usable for ambient temperatures upto 30 Deg C only) in all their K Series engines in India. It is an indication of the improvements in engines and oils that this has been made possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by souravc View Post
I prefer to use Mobil1 for my Vento and use their 5W-50 synthetic oil
.
I think you are okay with this choice as it Mobil 1 complies with VW 505 00 which specifies both the grades - 5W-40 and 5W-50.

Quote:
Originally Posted by souravc View Post
Ventos manual states Magnatec 5W-40 so i am a bit surprised that Rapid's is different
Thanks for this info. Now this adds to the confusion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
One assumes that they know what grade of oil to use.
Thats the general idea, but usually not found in practice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
I dont know which grade and would like to know what comes in the Yeti? Same as the Rapid or something different?
Check the owners manual and you will have the answer. As far as oil changes are concerned, the A.S.S use the same oil for all Skoda vehicles, so yes it would be the same as the Rapid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
@sauravc; I think SAE 30 oils are the norm for modern engines irrespective of the firm.
They are getting there, but there are still some manufacturers who still go with SAE 40.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
@shankar.balan; I am not too sure they know (or even care to know) in the W/S.
Couldn't have put it better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Honda ever since they started filling Synthetic have the oil change in new cars at 6 months and not at 3. Most (if not all) are still changing at 3 months, and that too with a mineral!
I thought this has always been 6 months Ė at least thatís what they did in my earlier ANHC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
I think, EU specific cars came with the DPF, but not the Indian version. DPF is mandatory only in Euro 5, and also, DPF is too hard and expensive to maintain.
Hence, I guess 5W-40 should be OK.
Yup, DPF's are one controversial area and could land a lot of people in trouble once they come into India. DPF is only area that VW 507 00 covers. Changing to 5w-40 from 5W-30 would certainly reduce the engine responses - dont want to do it unless it is recomended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by souravc View Post
Maruti has been using 10W - 40 for years,
As mentioned earlier, they have moved on to 5W-30 now in their K series engines.

Thanks a lot for your inputs guys. I'll get back to you all on the grade that I have decided on and why.
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Old 13th May 2012, 19:56   #9
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Despite all my efforts, I couldn't source VW 504 oil for my Laura TSI which is recommended by the manual. Wrote to Mobil & Shell for the same. Both responded but didn't comment directly on availability / non availability of VW 504 grade oil in India. Looks like oils are specified as per EU regulations / conditions.

Skoda A.S.S. used Castrol magnatech for top up. Not sure if one should go for Edge instead, but dealer didn't have options. Anybody aware of difference between the two?
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Old 13th May 2012, 20:48   #10
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

The Engine oil recommended by Skoda for the Superb Petrol is Castrol Edge Synthetic Oil 5W40 (corresponding to VW 504 00; 4.6L capacity) and the same is also embossed on the manual cover.

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Old 13th May 2012, 21:22   #11
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodred View Post
Skoda A.S.S. used Castrol magnatech for top up. Not sure if one should go for Edge instead, but dealer didn't have options. Anybody aware of difference between the two?
Specifications for the Laura TSI are VW 502 00 and VW 504 00. Castrol Edge 5W-40 conforms to VW 502 00, so that is the right choice. Oils that conform to VW 504 00 are the professional series in Castrol, so it's better if you could conform to VW 502 00.
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Old 13th May 2012, 22:27   #12
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Honda ever since they started filling Synthetic have the oil change in new cars at 6 months and not at 3. Most (if not all) are still changing at 3 months, and that too with a mineral!
Synthetic and a change at 6 months? Doesn't that beat the purpose of a synthetic despite the high cost? Or is it a semi-synthetic?

The service manual for the Skoda mentions a change once in 15000kms/1year which ever comes earlier. But, the service engineer mentioned it 'might' be a better idea to go in for service at about 12000kms considering the harsh driving conditions in India against European conditions.
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Old 14th May 2012, 00:05   #13
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

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Originally Posted by mempheS.D View Post
Synthetic and a change at 6 months? Doesn't that beat the purpose of a synthetic despite the high cost? Or is it a semi-synthetic?
Hi, AFAIK, synthetic oil does not extend oil change intervals. Its just better oil giving better protection at high rpm's or, extreme situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
Changing to 5w-40 from 5W-30 would certainly reduce the engine responses - dont want to do it unless it is recomended.
40 weight oil is just more viscous than a 30 weight oil. In "Indian" harsh conditions, I guess its just the oil you should be looking for!

Leave the DPF alone. I still don't know how the oil affects the DPF.

Last edited by dhanushs : 14th May 2012 at 00:07.
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Old 14th May 2012, 10:23   #14
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Default Re: Skoda / VW Group Engine Oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Hi, AFAIK, synthetic oil does not extend oil change intervals. Its just better oil giving better protection at high rpm's or, extreme situations.
Oh. That's what the vehicle manual specifies. A little googling told me this:

What is a synthetic blend?
Regular petroleum-based motor oil and synthetic motor oil are fully compatible, and can be readily mixed. Some manufacturers combine the two types of oil and package the mixture as a synthetic blend. Synthetic-blend oils offer many of the benefits of fully synthetic oil, but at a reduced cost. Be sure to consult your owner's manual or the vehicle manufacturer before considering a switch to synthetic blend oil.

link

Hope this helps.
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Old 14th May 2012, 12:28   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by souravc View Post
Ventos manual states Magnatec 5W-40 so i am a bit surprised that Rapid's is different
Could you please confirm whether it states Magnatec 5W-40 or Magnatec B4 Professional 5W-40. The first is semi synthetic and the second is fully synthetic apart from different VW spec compliances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
I dont know which grade and would like to know what comes in the Yeti?
It's VW 507 00 specification, so its the same as the Rapid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Leave the DPF alone. I still don't know how the oil affects the DPF.
Actually made an error and couldn't edit it by the time I found out - what I meant to write was - DPF is only ONE area that VW 507 00 covers - left out the most important word.

Now for the final twist in the tale - None of the Castrol Professional Series are available in the retail market by virtue of agreements between Castrol and the manufacturers as they have parted with their technologies to develop these oils. Anyway, I have arrived at a work around on this one, but for obvious reasons can't post that solution here.
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