Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd May 2012, 11:09   #31
Distinguished - BHPian
 
smartcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,973
Thanked: 11,921 Times
Default re: DSG packs up on my 2011 Skoda Laura CR 140 - EDIT now failed compressor & ECM bugs

They have been 2 new Superb gearbox failures reported in the Mechatronics thread. And there are 2 Fabia diesel engine failure threads under "Technical Stuff".

Skoda reliability and service center woes not affecting the sales THAT much - this should be a case study for IIMs. My guess is that they know how to make cars that are extremely desirable!.
smartcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2012, 11:12   #32
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,453
Thanked: 955 Times
Default re: DSG packs up on my 2011 Skoda Laura CR 140 - EDIT now failed compressor & ECM bugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post

With a mechanical failure, once the system has gone into safe mode, how can it come out of safe mode and function normally again? With an electronic/software related issue, switching off/disconnecting the battery etc. can reset the system - such as with an ECM or Mechatronics controller.

Absolutely.
Reset is an electronics "thing".
I do not know how a mechanical part can reset itself after it has failed.

Both the clutches inside the DSG-6 are wet plate type, right? Why would they fail?

It could very well be the mechantronics, people at Skoda may have been bored with the word "mechatronics" so they decided to type something else...

On a serious note - any pictures of the failed part?
Being in warranty, they would not hand it over to the owner, but I am sure a picture could be taken.
anandpadhye is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2012, 11:59   #33
Team-BHP Support
 
.anshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Good-Gaon
Posts: 7,710
Thanked: 8,930 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik_kapur View Post
Does the Jetta also have the 7speed DSG of the Laura or is it a newer 6 Speed Box ?

Also, how come we never hear of Jetta DSG failures ? If it is the same box, it should see a similar fate in the Jetta !
Laura does not have the problematic 7 speed box, both Jetta and Laura share the same 6 speed box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
Absolutely.
Reset is an electronics "thing".
I do not know how a mechanical part can reset itself after it has failed.

Both the clutches inside the DSG-6 are wet plate type, right? Why would they fail?

It could very well be the mechantronics, people at Skoda may have been bored with the word "mechatronics" so they decided to type something else...

On a serious note - any pictures of the failed part?
Being in warranty, they would not hand it over to the owner, but I am sure a picture could be taken.
Because the gearbox detected a mechanical problem it went into safe mode to prevent further damage, safe mode was limiting gearbox to shift beyond first gear not the damaged mechanical part.

Last edited by .anshuman : 22nd May 2012 at 12:11.
.anshuman is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2012, 12:43   #34
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 376
Thanked: 81 Times
Default re: DSG packs up on my 2011 Skoda Laura CR 140 - EDIT now failed compressor & ECM bugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
DSGs for VW and Skoda are same, manufactured at the same place and fitted in the same factory in India.
I know they're fitted in Aurangabad factory. But Skoda vehicles mechatronic units need to come Czech republic. Not just in India but wherever a Skoda DSG failure takes place.

My point was that is VW keeping the good stuff i.e; newer and updated DSG boxes with better reliability which goes onto the new passats and jettas and not passing on the same to the Skoda assembly line for the lauras and superbs (petrols mostly) and now a diesel. I know the failure was mostly in the petrol 7 speed DSG's which never came on the new passat/jetta.

Even if it is due to cost, which it shouldn't be because VW sources components as a group effectively reducing cost concerns.

Last edited by Ford5 : 22nd May 2012 at 12:46.
Ford5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2012, 12:45   #35
Team-BHP Support
 
.anshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Good-Gaon
Posts: 7,710
Thanked: 8,930 Times
Default re: DSG packs up on my 2011 Skoda Laura CR 140 - EDIT now failed compressor & ECM bugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford5 View Post
Ofcourse. I know they're made in Aurangabad. But Skoda vehicles mechatronic units need to come Czech republic. Not just in India but wherever a Skoda DSG failure takes place.

My point was that is VW keeping the good stuff i.e; newer and updated DSG boxes with better reliability which goes onto the new passats and jettas and not passing on the same to the Skoda assembly line for the lauras and superbs (petrols mostly) and now a diesel.

Even if it is due to cost, which it shouldn't be because VW sources components as a group effectively reducing cost concerns.
Please read my earlier post properly, the DSG 'box on Jetta, Passat, Laura and Superb diesel is exact same.
.anshuman is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2012, 12:55   #36
Distinguished - BHPian
 
vb-san's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: S'pore/Thrissur
Posts: 4,696
Thanked: 3,874 Times
Default re: DSG packs up on my 2011 Skoda Laura CR 140 - EDIT now failed compressor & ECM bugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford5 View Post
My point was that is VW keeping the good stuff i.e; newer and updated DSG boxes with better reliability which goes onto the new passats and jettas and not passing on the same to the Skoda assembly line for the lauras and superbs (petrols mostly) and now a diesel. I know the failure was mostly in the petrol 7 speed DSG's which never came on the new passat/jetta.
I doubt if this is the case. The issue with 7-speed DSG is a worldwide phenomenon, irrespective of whether the car is a Skoda or VW. The 7-speed DSG never came into the current Passat and Jetta because only the diesel variants made into India.
vb-san is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2012, 13:07   #37
Team-BHP Support
 
Vid6639's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 14,468
Thanked: 19,377 Times
Default re: DSG packs up on my 2011 Skoda Laura CR 140 - EDIT now failed compressor & ECM bugs

Just to clear the confusion.

FWD cars only:
DSG7 = DQ200 - 7 speed dry clutch transmission can handle max of 250Nm torque. Found in the Superb and other low torque petrol engines. Known to be problematic.
DSG7 = DQ500 - latest 7 speed dry clutch that can now handle 500Nm torque. Found in the Audi TT and VW Tiguan.
DSG6 = DQ250 - 6 speed wet clutch transmission used in all VW/Skodas diesel engines including the Laura, Jetta, Passat, Superb. Mostly reliable.

S-tronic:
DSG transmissions used by Audi for Quattro vehicles only with longitudinal mounted engines.

Multitronic:
CVT transmissions used by Audi for FWD cars like the A4 and A6 in India.
Vid6639 is offline   (11) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2012, 13:16   #38
Team-BHP Support
 
.anshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Good-Gaon
Posts: 7,710
Thanked: 8,930 Times
Default re: DSG packs up on my 2011 Skoda Laura CR 140 - EDIT now failed compressor & ECM bugs

^^ Furthermore, Audi uses CVT for FWD cars because their version of DSG is designed for longitudinal mount on Quattro equipped cars. The CVT is older and inferior transmission in lineup, expect it to be replaced by a DSG in future.
.anshuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2012, 13:29   #39
Distinguished - BHPian
 
SS-Traveller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 6,618
Thanked: 10,779 Times
Default re: DSG packs up on my 2011 Skoda Laura CR 140 - EDIT now failed compressor & ECM bugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Because the gearbox detected a mechanical problem it went into safe mode to prevent further damage, safe mode was limiting gearbox to shift beyond first gear not the damaged mechanical part.
Anshuman, the mechanical problem would not go away once the electronic system finds it to be faulty and goes into safe mode. Even when the electronics are reset, the error should come up again instantly once the system detects the mechanical issue. In manson's case, the car was 'rebooted' and worked perfectly after that.

For example, if there is a mechanical fault related to an injector (and ECM detects injector failure), the car would go into limp-home mode. Remove the battery, reset the ECM, restart the car, but the ECM will go into limp-home mode soon after, once the faulty injector is detected. Since that did not happen in manson's car, I am inclined to believe it was an electronics issue only, not a mechanical one - probably in the Mechatronics unit itself. In any case, the so-called *megaclutch* is a term I have not heard of for DSG components.
SS-Traveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2012, 13:31   #40
Distinguished - BHPian
 
vb-san's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: S'pore/Thrissur
Posts: 4,696
Thanked: 3,874 Times
Default re: DSG packs up on my 2011 Skoda Laura CR 140 - EDIT now failed compressor & ECM bugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
DSG6 = DQ250 - 6 speed wet clutch transmission used in all VW/Skodas diesel engines including the Laura, Jetta, Passat, Superb. Mostly reliable.
Vid, to add on DQ250 DSG is used in some of the high-end petrols (e.g.; Golf GTI, Octavia vRS etc.) as well. AFIAK, DQ250 was their first production DSG, and the most trouble-free.
vb-san is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2012, 13:32   #41
Team-BHP Support
 
.anshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Good-Gaon
Posts: 7,710
Thanked: 8,930 Times
Default re: DSG packs up on my 2011 Skoda Laura CR 140 - EDIT now failed compressor & ECM bugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Anshuman, the mechanical problem would not go away once the electronic system finds it to be faulty and goes into safe mode. Even when the electronics are reset, the error should come up again instantly once the system detects the mechanical issue. In manson's case, the car was 'rebooted' and worked perfectly after that.

For example, if there is a mechanical fault related to an injector (and ECM detects injector failure), the car would go into limp-home mode. Remove the battery, reset the ECM, restart the car, but the ECM will go into limp-home mode soon after, once the faulty injector is detected. Since that did not happen in manson's car, I am inclined to believe it was an electronics issue only, not a mechanical one - probably in the Mechatronics unit itself. In any case, the so-called *megaclutch* is a term I have not heard of for DSG components.
The mechanical problem was not limiting the gearbox to first gear, it was the safe mode. The main problem was the clutch unit but safe mode was preventing the 'box from shifting beyond first gear to prevent further damage.
.anshuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2012, 13:39   #42
Distinguished - BHPian
 
SS-Traveller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 6,618
Thanked: 10,779 Times
Default re: DSG packs up on my 2011 Skoda Laura CR 140 - EDIT now failed compressor & ECM bugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
The mechanical problem was not limiting the gearbox to first gear, it was the safe mode. The main problem was the clutch unit but safe mode was preventing the 'box from shifting beyond first gear to prevent further damage.
The clutch unit, as you say, should be a mechanical fault - then, why did the electronics not pick up/detect the same fault again after restart, and go into safe mode (preventing gearshift beyond first gear)??
SS-Traveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2012, 13:45   #43
Team-BHP Support
 
bblost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 9,650
Thanked: 6,662 Times
Default re: DSG packs up on my 2011 Skoda Laura CR 140 - EDIT now failed compressor & ECM bugs

What is a megaclutch?

I tried googling but found nothing except a link to this thread.
bblost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2012, 14:09   #44
Team-BHP Support
 
.anshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Good-Gaon
Posts: 7,710
Thanked: 8,930 Times
Default re: DSG packs up on my 2011 Skoda Laura CR 140 - EDIT now failed compressor & ECM bugs

@Manson: It would be great if you share the list of parts changed from the receipt if it is mentioned there.
.anshuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2012, 14:21   #45
Team-BHP Support
 
Vid6639's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 14,468
Thanked: 19,377 Times
Default re: DSG packs up on my 2011 Skoda Laura CR 140 - EDIT now failed compressor & ECM bugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
@Manson: It would be great if you share the list of parts changed from the receipt if it is mentioned there.
I agree with Anshuman that we need the detailed parts list. There's no such thing as a megaclutch unless the parts that have failed are the 2 clutches itself.

40K is not the price for complete gearbox and is also not the cost of the mechatronics which is around a lakh.

It could be the input shafts or the gear cogs themselves.
Vid6639 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Skoda Laura L&K Compressor and Condenser question duke Technical Stuff 60 20th November 2017 23:28
Skoda Laura 1.8 TSi DSG; Is it coming? EDIT:No plans revealed yet rana_kirti Sedans 49 11th February 2013 23:39
Opel Astra ECM Failed! humm Technical Stuff 6 19th January 2009 17:17


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 08:54.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks