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Old 8th February 2015, 16:31   #76
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Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post

Did you take the car to Bosch and get it checked ? I went on a nice long drive recently and my car only has this vibration between 1700rpm to 2000 rpm. Cruising at 80 wasn't a problem IIRC,though I cant be sure since I was driving around 90-100 most of the times.
Couldn't go. Too tied up at work and on the personal front. Apologies.

Shall update as and when I can go.
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Old 29th May 2015, 01:16   #77
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

VIBRATION ISSUE IN SWIFT DIESEL ---- UPDATE


Quote:
Quoting my own post:

Even my Swift ZDi does have this little vibration when the RPM is between 1800-2100. My car shall be going for 20K service tomorrow. Will talk to my SA and see what can be done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beast_within View Post
I have been facing exactly same issue since last 12 thousand Kms. Mine Swift ZDI has done 37k.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
And this issue looks like some problem with the clutch. And looking at the cases here, maybe a manufacturing defect of a part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
I have been getting the same vibration in 5th gear since 2500 kilometers in my Swift now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sridhar K View Post
In my case, the vibration is also felt on the 4th gear and very pronounced at 5th.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post
Did you take the car to Bosch and get it checked?
Sorry to quote all posts and some old ones too but I wanted to get all in the loop since many here were facing the same issue on their Swift Diesel. After a lot of thinking and trying to find time for the job, I decided and went ahead to a known FNG (G.M. Motors) refered to me by BHPian interc00led.

Initially was thinking to get the clutch plates changed but realised the clutch and pressure plate are a set, went ahead and bought the set costing me ₹3088.

After getting the plate set head to the FNG where the process started. Battery, air filter unit, drive shafts, wheels, gearbox, transmission oil all removed. All this to gain access to the clutch housing. Post opening (took them 2.5 hours to open, tiring and hectic IMO), put the new plates in position. Finally after some more thinking got the Clutch release bearing too from MGP stockist for ₹3100.

After the changes, re-fitting started, air bled, all connection, fittings done. Restarted the car and the mechanic took it for a trial. Post his trial, I went for a long one stretching till 80 kmph to check if the vibrations persisted or no.

Result: A wide grin on my face just like this fella --->

I tried it in all gears, no vibrations and the car was back! It was in its glory again!

Part number (For reference):
  1. Disc Comp, Clutch (a.k.a Clutch plate): 22400M86J41 (Make: Valeo)
  2. Cover Clutch, (a.k.a Pressure Plate): 22100M86J40
  3. Clutch release bearing: 23820M79J00

Costs incurred:
  • Clutch plate: ₹1600
  • Pressure Plate:1097
  • Clutch release bearing: ₹3100
  • Labour: ₹1200

PS: As I had the 40K service done 3K kms back, didn't want to waste the oil hence asked them to collect it in a clean container to re-use it. Also try and get clutches made by Valeo rather than CeeKay. Valeo are the best as I have heard many say this.

PPS: I suggest all BHPians to go ahead and get their cars checked and changed for a peaceful drive.

A few pictures:

Packing sticker - Clutch plate:
Clutch judder & vibrations-1.-clutch-plate-box.jpg

Packing sticker - Pressure plate:
Clutch judder & vibrations-2.-pressure-plate-box.jpg

Clutch plate:
Clutch judder & vibrations-3.-clutch-plate.jpg

Clutch Plate - Close up:
Clutch judder & vibrations-4.-clutch-pate-close-up.jpg

Valeo Make printed on Clutch:
Clutch judder & vibrations-5.-valeo-make-imprint.jpg

Pressure Plate:
Clutch judder & vibrations-6.-pressure-plate.jpg

Pressure Plate - Another view:
Clutch judder & vibrations-7.-pressure-plate-another-view.jpg

Gearbox out - Cleaning and to replace the clutch release bearings:
Clutch judder & vibrations-8.-gear-box-out.jpg

Older pressure plate + clutch in housing - waiting to be dismantled:
Clutch judder & vibrations-9.-older-plate.jpg

Old (Right) vs New (Left):
Clutch judder & vibrations-10.-old-vs-new.jpg

Old (Left) vs New (Right):
Clutch judder & vibrations-11.-old-vs-new.jpg

With BHPian interc00led, both of us will try and see if we can find out the real culprit to this vibrations as we have the OEM set. Hope to find something. We both suspect it could be the cushion springs. Lets see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Potenza View Post
I am pretty sure as of now that the issue lay with either or all of the three components replaced by me.
Thank you Potenza, you have hit the nail!

Last edited by a4anurag : 29th May 2015 at 01:20. Reason: Editing!
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Old 29th May 2015, 02:08   #78
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Result: A wide grin on my face just like this fella --->

I tried it in all gears, no vibrations and the car was back! It was in its glory again!
Excellent Anurag! Will check your reports to see how the car behaves with 5 to 10k on the odo and I'll consider getting this done if its still the same. Will MASS do it as well as the FNG you got it done from ? I hope so.

PS: Stock clutch looks to be in good condition right ?
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Old 29th May 2015, 02:12   #79
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Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post
Excellent Anurag! Will check your reports to see how the car behaves with 5 to 10k on the odo and I'll consider getting this done if its still the same. Will MASS do it as well as the FNG you got it done from ? I hope so.

PS: Stock clutch looks to be in good condition right ?
Will keep observing with a keen eyes and senses regularly for the next 20K kms and shall keep updating my thread and this thread IF required.

Yes, Stock clutch is in good state @ 46K kms.

Last edited by a4anurag : 29th May 2015 at 02:28.
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Old 29th May 2015, 10:33   #80
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

Apologies for the hijacking the thread, In my Sx4 (D) is am facing slight juddering when the car have travelled about good 30-40 kilometers every day. On the cold engine there is no juddering at all. I only experience this in the first gear, when the car has zero momentum, else I don't.

Haven't faced any drop in pick up, till now. I don't have the habit on driving on foot on the clutch pedal, my santro with stock clutch has covered 113k till now.

The car done about 41 km, will clutch bleeding solve the problem or Maruti have a weak clutch.

Any suggestions most welcome!

Amit
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Old 29th May 2015, 11:03   #81
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Originally Posted by amitpunjani View Post
Apologies for the hijacking the thread, In my Sx4 (D) is am facing slight juddering when the car have travelled about good 30-40 kilometers every day. On the cold engine there is no juddering at all. I only experience this in the first gear, when the car has zero momentum, else I don't.

The car done about 41 km, will clutch bleeding solve the problem or Maruti have a weak clutch.
There could be issue with the clutch release bearings or issues with the gear linkages for the 1st gear.

The linkage isn't release the gear fully to get into action.
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Old 29th May 2015, 11:47   #82
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
There could be issue with the clutch release bearings or issues with the gear linkages for the 1st gear.

The linkage isn't release the gear fully to get into action.
Thanks for your reply Anurag, I don't think there isn't problem with the linkages or clutch release bearing, I don't feel the slippage or juddering when the engine is cold, its just when its hot I feel juddering.
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Old 29th May 2015, 21:31   #83
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Thank you Potenza, you have hit the nail!
Well, I was just about to update the status of my Swift post the clutch change but you beat me to it with your post. I am glad you have got rid of the vibrations. I know how it feels to finally drive a smooth car again.

Anyways, with regards to my car. I had replaced the same components as you did at around 36K kms. My car is now at 47,200 km and the news is not very good. The ugly vibrations have returned and I am really pulling my hair on this one now.

Initially the vibrations started at 20K. I finally replaced the said components at 36K. But now I have no clue why the same thing is happening within 11K Kms of the clutch change.

My driving pattern is the same, the route I drive on is the same, the amount of traffic has seen no change. But yet I am unable to find a reason as to why the same thing is happening again. It could be the way I drive, but then this is not the only manual car in my house and I have never had an issue with any of the others. This seems to be something very specific to the Swift DDIS.

Last edited by Potenza : 29th May 2015 at 21:36.
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Old 29th May 2015, 21:56   #84
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Anyways, with regards to my car. I had replaced the same components as you did at around 36K kms. My car is now at 47,200 km and the news is not very good. The ugly vibrations have returned and I am really pulling my hair on this one now.
I didn't expect that now. Sad! If the dreaded vibrations resurface, I'll line with it till the car is sold off. That's another 50K kms.

I guess the culprit is not only the clutch but some other component. BHPian madhav14 too had these vibrations so he changed the clutch set and release bearings but the vibrations weren't home fully. He then changed the drive shafts after which the vibrations were nill.
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Old 29th May 2015, 23:27   #85
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Potenza View Post
I finally replaced the said components at 36K. But now I have no clue why the same thing is happening within 11K Kms of the clutch change.

My driving pattern is the same, the route I drive on is the same, the amount of traffic has seen no change. But yet I am unable to find a reason as to why the same thing is happening again. It could be the way I drive, but then this is not the only manual car in my house and I have never had an issue with any of the others. This seems to be something very specific to the Swift DDIS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
I didn't expect that now. Sad! If the dreaded vibrations resurface, I'll line with it till the car is sold off. That's another 50K kms.

I guess the culprit is not only the clutch but some other component. BHPian madhav14 too had these vibrations so he changed the clutch set and release bearings but the vibrations weren't home fully. He then changed the drive shafts after which the vibrations were nill.
Hi, sad to hear that.

I used to have the same vibrations problem for my Swift Vdi 2013 model. The vibrations have started roughly at 40k kms odd and I drove the car like that for 6-7k kms. The clutch was also a little bit hard which made me think that clutch would have been the culprit. Finally, after discussing with Anurag and seeing some opinions on the forum, I decided to change the clutch plates at 50k kms service.

After changing the entire clutch set, there is absolutely no difference in the vibrations. Then we investigated the problem again, suspected the drive shaft and changed the left one. Again, no difference. I decided to give it just one last chance, requested to put the old drive shaft back on the left side and change the right side drive shaft this time.

Bang!!! That solved the problem finally Absolutely no vibrations whatsoever, at any speed. It just disappeared. I suggest you to explain the service guys about the problem and try the same once - change the drive shaft on one side and test - repeat the same for the other side too if the problem still persists. I'm pretty sure this should solve your problem. They just have to be patient for changing both sides and testing two times, if required. It costed me around 6k for the drive shaft (Don't remember exact figure. Sorry)
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Old 29th May 2015, 23:52   #86
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

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Originally Posted by madhav14 View Post
After changing the entire clutch set, there is absolutely no difference in the vibrations. Then we investigated the problem again, suspected the drive shaft and changed the left one. Again, no difference. I decided to give it just one last chance, requested to put the old drive shaft back on the left side and change the right side drive shaft this time.
Post the drive shaft change, can you tell us how long did you drive the car?

Do you feel the vibrations re-appearing?
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Old 30th May 2015, 00:02   #87
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Post the drive shaft change, can you tell us how long did you drive the car?

Do you feel the vibrations re-appearing?
It's been 2 and half months since I have changed the drive shaft. Drove 8,900 kms till today(I travel too much). Drove pretty much on highways, city roads, village roads, good and bad roads. I never ever felt the vibrations again till now.

In my case, it's definitely not the clutch and clearly it's the drive shaft. Because, after changing the clutch, I didn't feel even the slightest reduction in vibration. The whole car simply judders at speeds of 60-90 km/h even with slight acceleration inputs - just as before. Hence we have tried in trial and error method, and zeroed the root cause to the right side drive shaft. Hope this info helps.
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Old 31st May 2015, 08:36   #88
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But yet I am unable to find a reason as to why the same thing is happening again.
Any solution to this?

Could be an issue with the clutch components. I say that because, when the components are new with all clearances, thickness etc being apt the car runs fine. Once these start deteriorating, issues crop up.

Next time we need to isolate, whether it is the clutch plate or the pressure plate or the clutch release bearing!
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Old 31st May 2015, 10:51   #89
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
With BHPian interc00led, both of us will try and see if we can find out the real culprit to this vibrations as we have the OEM set. Hope to find something. We both suspect it could be the cushion springs. Lets see.



Thank you Potenza, you have hit the nail!
Did that clutch really require a change? The existing one was not at all worn out. Moreover, this issue of juddering is there in both my cars and it appeared at 14k kms of my WagonR. From what I heard, it is because of the disc and the pressure plate going slightly off alignment by a very small margin. When the clutch is taken apart and reassembled, the issue goes and reappears in a few thousand km. We did this experiment on a friends swift and it worked as per the mechanics theory. He covered 7k after the rebuild and as of now no problems.

Also MSIL has two suppliers for the clutch and Valeo ones are showing the problems as per the mechanic. He suggested to go for Ceekay which are also OE for MS and try to source them if possible.
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Old 31st May 2015, 11:27   #90
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Did that clutch really require a change? The existing one was not at all worn out.

Also MSIL has two suppliers for the clutch and Valeo ones are showing the problems as per the mechanic. He suggested to go for Ceekay which are also OE for MS and try to source them if possible.
With 120 kms a day of travel, I was irritated of driving with those vibrations. Hence decided for the change. The clutch that came with the car would have run another 15K kms easily but never mind.

This was just a trial and if this vibrations repeats, I'll bare it till 1L kms part out seek the car anyway.

Funniest part of my conversation with an MGP Stockist,

Me: I need clutch and pressure plate for Swift D 2013 model.

Stockist : Here to go, please pay 3.1K at the counter.

Me: Thank you. I need Valeo brand manufactured one.

Stockist: No sir, CeeKay is the only supplier for clutches for Maruti Suzuki. You can check elsewhere if you don't believe me.

Me: Hmmm. Ok fine I'll take it. Can I open and check it before I pay?

Stockist: Yes sir.

Me: Then what is this? I gave him an eye brow raising look and have him the clutch only to see "Valeo" imprinted on it.

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Stockist: Oops! I smile and walk out from there.

EDIT: He checked 18 packages of clutches to see what brand it was. All were Valeo!

But I have heard good reviews for clutches manufactured by Valeo rather than one made by CeeKay.

Last edited by a4anurag : 31st May 2015 at 11:31.
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