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Old 17th August 2015, 12:02   #91
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

A quick update regarding my seemingly endless issue with the now well known vibration.

I gave my car to Sai Service Andheri for the scheduled 50,000 km service yesterday. I intended to report my vibration issue as well and hence specifically chose a Sunday since I could replicate the issue easily on the Western express highway without the usual traffic. Showed the problem to the SA and the service manager who I had contacted before hand.

I got a call from the SM sometime back and informed me that on opening the clutch they have found some spring broken and the clutch and pressure plate damaged. What came about next was a shocker. He informed me that the flywheel is also damaged and apart from the clutch overhaul the flywheel also needs to be replaced!

I have asked him to go ahead and do whatever he needs to since my car is still under extended warranty, but this latest revelation confirmed one of the hunches I have had from the beginning. I always suspected that the clutch issues were consequential. Something was not right in the drive train which was then affecting the clutch and not vice versa. The clutch replacement that was carried out earlier only took care of the symptom and not of the root cause. That was the reason why the vibrations surfaced again after the clutch replacement.

In my opinion all of you who have replaced the clutch plates need to also check the flywheel which probably is the root cause. I think a imbalanced flywheel (or maybe some other problem with it) ruins the clutch. Just replacing the clutch does not cure the problem completely.
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Old 17th August 2015, 12:17   #92
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In my opinion all of you who have replaced the clutch plates need to also check the flywheel which probably is the root cause. I think a imbalanced flywheel (or maybe some other problem with it) ruins the clutch. Just replacing the clutch does not cure the problem completely.
Thanks for the information. Do mentioned the costs incurred and if under warranty please do inquire the costs of the Flywheel.

It's been approx 14000 kms since I had done the clutch change on my Swift ZDi and till now it is running like new without those dreaded vibrations (Touchwood) resurfacing.
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Old 19th August 2015, 16:52   #93
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

I got my car back from the workshop last evening. I drove home in heavy traffic and didn't really get a chance to check if the problem has been solved. Hence the final verdict is still awaited.

The SM showed me images of my old clutch plate and flywheel. The Sai Service Pune guys who worked on my car last October obviously did a very shoddy job. The clutch plate when properly installed needs to sit flush with the flywheel. In my case the clutch was connected to the flywheel only in patches. Whether this was a case of faulty flywheel or faulty installation I am not sure but in either case the Pune guys should have checked the flywheel before overhauling the clutch. The result was that the clutch plate got worn out unevenly, the clutch springs were getting rubbed in places (one was so bad that it actually looked like a nice chrome finish). There was also a deep crack on the central part of the clutch which was also caused by bad alignment.

The replacement work was all done under warranty. I have attached a pic of the part numbers and costs.


Anyways, I hope to check my car on an empty road tonight or tomorrow morning and will update the status. Hope the problem has been solved.
Attached Thumbnails
Clutch judder & vibrations-part-no-cost.jpg  

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Old 25th August 2015, 08:41   #94
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

OK, its been almost a week since I got my car back and the vibrations seem to have disappeared (for now).

One question for the experts. There is a slight judder on the clutch pedal. Is this normal? I assume not since it wasn't there on the car in its original state when i bought it, but I did notice some judder after the first clutch change.

Any idea why this happens and whether I should get it checked?
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Old 12th October 2015, 13:04   #95
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

Some updates on the vibration. My clutch gave up at 50k kms. The gears won't shift and could do only if the engine was switched off. Suspected release bearing failure and dropped the car at Bhagavathy Autoworks (MyTVS). I never ride the clutch and nor lug the engine, Even speed breakers, I take it as first gear for most parts.

When they opened the clutch plate, the release bearing was normal (normal wear for a 50k car, clutch plates had similar wear (still at 15k-20 life on it), the cushion springs on the plate were fine though one of the cushion springs had some small play. The main issue was the diaphragm springs on the cover assembly were misaligned.The chief works manager at MyTVS was ex-Maruti service masters in Chennai and he said that the spring misalignment is rare and could be a manufacturing defect

Changed the clutch plate, cover assembly and release bearing. The fly wheel was fine (as the plate was also fine). Since the vehicle had done 50k and we had opened the clutch, replaced the release bearing as well.

The vibration at 2K rpm is gone for now but suspecting it to come back in 20k odd kms or so. the Gear shifts are a bit notchy now with a mild judder when releasing the clutch. Hoping things will get better after a few k kms.

I could have taken it to MSM (MASS). Know for sure that they won't accept it as a manufacturing issue and the labor charges at MSM is very high.

Fig1: Cover assembly with the misaligned diaphragm spings
Clutch judder & vibrations-img_20150929_111400958.jpg

Fig2: Clutch plate with the cushion spring (typical culprit for the vibration at peak torque)
Clutch judder & vibrations-img_20150929_111407321.jpg
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Old 19th October 2015, 22:58   #96
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Default Judder in cold start in Dzire ZDI

My dzire is 2.5 years old and have been driven about 22,000 km. Since August, I have been experiencing severe judder in first gear only at cold start. Once I drive it for a couple of km, then there is no judder in 1st gear. There is no judder in any higher gear even in cold start. So if I try and take off in 2nd gear in morning, there is no judder.

Another noise which I hear is from tyres when reversing in cold start. There is a noise which sounds like the tyre is scrappig something. It's a mild hum noise.

What could be the cause of these two? There are no vibrations at any rpm. The car runs pretty smooth otherwise. Have I ignored the judder too long and damaged something bigger? I don't want to go to service station without info and fall for clutch, flywheel etc replacement. The service centres are eager to loot its customers. My car is not in warranty now.
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Old 20th October 2015, 09:49   #97
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Default Re: Judder in cold start in Dzire ZDI

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Originally Posted by manish84 View Post
My dzire is 2.5 years old and have been driven about 22,000 km. Since August, I have been experiencing severe judder in first gear only at cold start. Once I drive it for a couple of km, then there is no judder in 1st gear. There is no judder in any higher gear even in cold start. So if I try and take off in 2nd gear in morning, there is no judder.

.
My Swift D has done 51k and off late i have been facing exactly similar issue with clutch vibrations. I have been living with it since this persists for few minutes till the engine is cold. Do let me know if you find the root cause of this isse.
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Old 20th October 2015, 11:12   #98
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Originally Posted by manish84 View Post
Another noise which I hear is from tyres when reversing in cold start. There is a noise which sounds like the tyre is scrappig something. It's a mild hum noise.
Check if brakes are not free the discs of may be check the wheel well for the cladding getting lose and evening the tyre.

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I have been living with it since this persists for few minutes till the engine is cold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by manish84 View Post
Since August, I have been experiencing severe judder in first gear only at cold start.
Do get the clutch release bearing checked. I guess it is at the end of its life. But if you do think of changing do check the health of clutch plate, pressure plate and flywheel.

I'd say go to an FNG rather than at MASS where they'll exploit the customer.

I was suffering from the same vibrations and I changed the clutch plates, pressure plates and clutch release bearing so now it's been 30K kms and life is good.

Last edited by a4anurag : 20th October 2015 at 11:14.
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Old 13th November 2015, 17:44   #99
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Thumbs up Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Initially was thinking to get the clutch plates changed but realised the clutch and pressure plate are a set, went ahead and bought the set costing me ₹3088.

After getting the plate set head to the FNG where the process started. Battery, air filter unit, drive shafts, wheels, gearbox, transmission oil all removed. All this to gain access to the clutch housing. Post opening (took them 2.5 hours to open, tiring and hectic IMO), put the new plates in position. Finally after some more thinking got the Clutch release bearing too from MGP stockist for ₹3100.

After the changes, re-fitting started, air bled, all connection, fittings done. Restarted the car and the mechanic took it for a trial. Post his trial, I went for a long one stretching till 80 kmph to check if the vibrations persisted or no.

Result: A wide grin on my face just like this fella --->

I tried it in all gears, no vibrations and the car was back! It was in its glory again!

Part number (For reference):
  1. Disc Comp, Clutch (a.k.a Clutch plate): 22400M86J41 (Make: Valeo)
  2. Cover Clutch, (a.k.a Pressure Plate): 22100M86J40
  3. Clutch release bearing: 23820M79J00

Costs incurred:
  • Clutch plate: ₹1600
  • Pressure Plate:1097
  • Clutch release bearing: ₹3100
  • Labour: ₹1200
I had a discussion regarding this problem with the Director of Maruti Service Zone - Autoteam , Kochi - Rajan Sir.

As per his input,
  • Just changing the Clutch Plate in itself could solve the problem. But, it's a good idea to change both ( clutch plate and pressure plate ) since, there is a matching which happens over time between the clutch plate and pressure plate.
  • The clutch release bearing doesn't in any way affect the symptom mentioned on this thread because, clutch bearing works only when you depress the clutch. In other times, it doesn't even get in contact with any moving parts. The only time, you might need to think about replacing the bearing is when you hear a screeching sound when you depress the clutch. So, for people who face this symptom, you can save 3100 INR, if you opt out of clutch release bearing replacement.

Other inputs that he gave
  • The new clutch plate and pressure plate might not match exactly, and at times he had to use the old pressure plate instead of the new one to resolve matching issues.
  • There are even cases where the pressure plate of Ceekay had to be used in sync with that of the clutch plate of Valeo and vice versa.

Last edited by amalji : 13th November 2015 at 17:56.
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Old 13th February 2016, 21:55   #100
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post

I tried it in all gears, no vibrations and the car was back! It was in its glory again!

How is your car doing Anurag?
I am planning to change my Ertigas clutch around 40k , which is still 2 months away.
My regular MASS owner says to replace clutch plate, pressure plate, flywheel as a set (but not the release bearing). But another MASS center SA says to try clutch bleed first before doing any changes, he suggests to re assemble clutch as the second option and final option as to change the full assembly.
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Old 13th February 2016, 22:32   #101
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How is your car doing Anurag?
I am planning to change my Ertigas clutch around 40k , which is still 2 months away.
IIRC, post the clutch change, my car has done 30K or 35K and she is performing flawlessly.

I'll suggest you to change the Clutch plates, pressure plate and flywheel as a set as recommended.

Clutch release bearings is required if shifting is notchy. But if it is me, irrespective of however it feels I'll change it. I may be wrong in my thinking. I think that all of these work together so all must be new rather a part being new and another being older though the release bearing does job only during shifting.

Since you will be doing this activity at the 40K service, the gear oil will be changed too.

Last edited by a4anurag : 13th February 2016 at 22:34.
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Old 4th March 2016, 23:47   #102
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Default Chevy Optra Magnum new clutch nightmares

Hello TBHPians.

Before I start my rant, below is the history of my vehicle:
Chevy Optra Magnum, April 2011, run 1,69,000 KM.

I have recently installed new clutch+pressure plates (Genuine GM spare), slave cylinder, flywheel (LUK, aftermarket), front suspensions (aftermarket) and fuel pump (aftermarket. Clutch seems like its not able to pull the load. I need to rev the engine to overcome a speed breaker, also car sort of shudders while releasing the clutch. My trusted mechanic said there is no fault in installation, and the clutch may need time to break-in.

One year ago I had installed aftermarket radiator and fan.

What could be the reason for such an under powered clutch. It has removed the joy out my driving :(
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Old 16th March 2016, 09:55   #103
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Default Re: Chevy Optra Magnum new clutch nightmares

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Originally Posted by chevyman View Post
Hello TBHPians.

Before I start my rant, below is the history of my vehicle:
Chevy Optra Magnum, April 2011, run 1,69,000 KM.

I have recently installed new clutch+pressure plates (Genuine GM spare), slave cylinder, flywheel (LUK, aftermarket), front suspensions (aftermarket) and fuel pump (aftermarket. Clutch seems like its not able to pull the load. I need to rev the engine to overcome a speed breaker, also car sort of shudders while releasing the clutch. My trusted mechanic said there is no fault in installation, and the clutch may need time to break-in.

One year ago I had installed aftermarket radiator and fan.

What could be the reason for such an under powered clutch. It has removed the joy out my driving :(
Car feels sluggish and stutters. I am revving more than what I used to do earlier. Appreciate if any members can throw some light.
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Old 30th March 2016, 18:53   #104
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Default Re: Clutch judder & vibrations

I have a surprisingly awes ome thing to report. Its amazing as well as astonishing at the same time.

My vibration at 2000 rpm as well as the sound which came with it is completely gone. Yes, Vanished in thin air and you know what was the culprit ? ALLOY WHEELS !

In the life time of my car, my wheel nut has jammed twice and to remove that it needs to be lathed and hammered and like literally abused to break the nut and bolt to get the wheel out. Two of my alloys after this abuse I think had one of the holes increase their diameter a whee bit (my assumption).

Some days back my car completed 1 lakh 20 thousand kilometers and I decided to do away with the alloy wheels and get back on the steel rims. This was further facilitated by the fact that I had to buy two new tyres.

As soon as the steel rims went in, I took it for a spin and VOILA, vibration at 2000 rpm gone, sound at 2000 rpm gone, now I don't even realise I have passed the rpm at which it vibrates and can happy potter around at 60-70-80 in 5th gear. My clutch is 62 thousand kilometers old now.

I hope this helps.
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Old 30th March 2016, 21:47   #105
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Default Re: Clutch judder & vibrations

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
I have a surprisingly awes ome thing to report. Its amazing as well as astonishing at the same time.

My vibration at 2000 rpm as well as the sound which came with it is completely gone. Yes, Vanished in thin air and you know what was the culprit ? ALLOY WHEELS !

In the life time of my car, my wheel nut has jammed twice and to remove that it needs to be lathed and hammered and like literally abused to break the nut and bolt to get the wheel out. Two of my alloys after this abuse I think had one of the holes increase their diameter a whee bit (my assumption).

Some days back my car completed 1 lakh 20 thousand kilometers and I decided to do away with the alloy wheels and get back on the steel rims. This was further facilitated by the fact that I had to buy two new tyres.

As soon as the steel rims went in, I took it for a spin and VOILA, vibration at 2000 rpm gone, sound at 2000 rpm gone, now I don't even realise I have passed the rpm at which it vibrates and can happy potter around at 60-70-80 in 5th gear. My clutch is 62 thousand kilometers old now.

I hope this helps.
I too have a problem with my alloys and tyres, which are 1,71,000 km and 70,000 km old respectively. Chevy service in Hyderabad is deplorable and independent mechanics dont seem to be able to fathom this car. Apart from sluggish clutch and acceleration, there is too much shaking in my car. Car shakes laterally as well as jerks. Dont know who to consult.
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