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Old 7th June 2012, 16:18   #1
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Default Clutch judder & vibrations

I bought a Swift ZDi (Feb end) and had clutch judder issue right from day one. I had reported the issue before 2000 kms and the workshop mentioned that I had to go for a clutch replacement. The car was kept under observation (with me itself to see if the issue was getting fixed on its own or increasing) for some time.

In between, another issue which I observed was a bad vibration on the steering wheel between 1100 – 1500 rpm in all gears, with a resonance kind of sound. That equates to a jarring vibration in an everyday speed just short of 60 km/h in 5th (not due to lugging or anything)

I had reported this and the workshop mentioned to me that this was fine and they observed nothing unusual in my car. I mentioned I suspected the engine mounting, and workshop checked and lubricated everything. The issue still persisted.

Last week, I finally had taken the car to the original dealer from whom I had purchased the car. They changed the clutch under warranty (flywheel was not replaced. Workshop mentioned to me that the flywheel was perfect and there were no burnt marks or any issues and hence not changed). From my conversation, they had done the same for few other cars as well - all ZDi’s.

The issue with the clutch judder (noted the moment car was delivered), steering vibration and resonance sound still persists. In addition to this, post the clutch change, the 1st gear engagement at times has become extremely hard (This was not the case earlier). At times it works perfectly, at time extremely hard. After I took the car back (within 2-3 kms) the workshop did a hydraulic fluid bleeding, which did not help either.

Otherwise the car is fine, and FE is good too at almost 18 km/l in Bangalore city with 100% AC and some highway + city FE of almost 20 km/l (pretty spirited drives) with 100% AC.

I have another Swift VDi (old model) which has done 1.3 lakh kms and does not have any of these issues. I have heard about clutch judder in Swifts, but not something I expected in a brand new car. The car has done only 7200 kms, and I am a bit concerned with the issues I am seeing.

To summarize the problems:
  1. Clutch judder – despite the clutch change
  2. Jarring vibration on the steering wheel between 1100 – 1500 rpm
  3. Resonating boom kind of sound inside the car at this rpm range
  4. Engagement of 1st gear at times has become extremely hard
Is anyone else facing such issues?

Any thoughts on what could be wrong and what should be done to get these fixed. Technical suggestions are most welcome.
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Old 8th June 2012, 12:47   #2
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

Sorry to hear about your problems. It must be frustrating to go through this in a newish car. You still ending up getting a good FE despite all this is the only silver lining.

Couple of questions -

Was the gear box/transmission checked for any abnormalities?

Was the old faulty clutch shown to you after replacement or did you just take the workshop's word for it?
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Old 8th June 2012, 13:11   #3
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

There are multiple things that needs to be looked here. Clutch judder is usually because the clutch components and flywheel isn't meeting each other concentrically.
Worn out clutch parts also can cause this problem. When the "slip" is not constant,the surface of the friction plate engages the flywheel at certain points along its periphery and causes this juddering. The swift has a history with the clutch.

Considering the fact that you have replaced the clutch we can rule out the possibility of clutch wear and broken finger springs from the clutch assembly.

Quote:
Jarring vibration on the steering wheel between 1100 – 1500 rpm
Alignment is what I can think of at this point.

Quote:
Engagement of 1st gear at times has become extremely hard
Could be coz of the clutch itself.
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Old 8th June 2012, 15:01   #4
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

Clutch judder is a known issue, some cars have it more compared to other. Sometime it automatically disappears over a period of time. My car used to judder in the early years, i was worried if the clutch is conked. But soon it decided to be normal. Now only in certain heavy load, clutch slip occasion it judders. But then its supposed to anyways at those situation.

Steering, well this is a new one. Hope its not an alignment or bent wheel issue. Saying since the engine vibration hardly trickles into the steering in this car. Also do check if the rack assembly is tightened properly.

First gear can be coz of new clutch OR the gear cable assembly setting which got changed when they dismantled the box for clutch.

If you are on Banarghatta road side, head to the Mandovi workshop and ask for Gangadhara. He is quite good with Swift D's.
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Old 11th June 2012, 10:33   #5
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuel_addict View Post

Couple of questions -

Was the gear box/transmission checked for any abnormalities?

Was the old faulty clutch shown to you after replacement or did you just take the workshop's word for it?
The transmission as such was not checked, as there were no issues before giving the car for clutch replacement.

The clutch was not shown to me. But having been a customer of the same dealer and workshop for more than 20 years, I will take their word for it. Also, I was aware of the fact that the clutch parts were sent from their other outlet. I trust them on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjstyles69 View Post
There are multiple things that needs to be looked here. Clutch judder is usually because the clutch components and flywheel isn't meeting each other concentrically.
Worn out clutch parts also can cause this problem. When the "slip" is not constant,the surface of the friction plate engages the flywheel at certain points along its periphery and causes this juddering. The swift has a history with the clutch.
Question is, will this clutch sheddering, as they call it, have any impact on the car or its performance, other than the once in a while inconvenience when releasing from 1st / reverse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjstyles69 View Post
Considering the fact that you have replaced the clutch we can rule out the possibility of clutch wear and broken finger springs from the clutch assembly.
The flywheel was not replaced, as the workshop mentioned they did not see any burnt marks / grooves on it. The car had run only 6000 odd kms till that time.

They have already escalated this as a feedback to Maruti's technical department and are waiting for a feedback.

I am going to check with them if they can go ahead and replace the clutch assembly along with the flywheel under warranty once and see if that can solve the issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjstyles69 View Post
Alignment is what I can think of at this point.

Could be coz of the clutch itself.
If wheel allignment is what you meant, the allignment was done at the service center and the issue still persisted. Also, if it was alignment related, I would have felt it at certain road speed and not at an engine speed range. There was also no pulling towards any sides.

I am suspecting the engine mounting, as there is a shake when switching off the car which I observed. I had checked with a few other cars, and they did not have this shake.

Further, the vibration is felt on the pedals too, and there is a resonating 'boom' kind of sound inside the car during this rpm range.

Thanks both of you for your thoughts. Let me know if I should check something else.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 13:01   #6
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

Sorry for the delay in update. I had the car, soon after the last post, taken to the Maruti RO in Kochi, where their senior technical consultant himself checked the car.

Post that, the clutch assembly, flywheel and the release bearing was changed. It looks like the issue was with the hydraulic release bearing.

Post this, now the car has done close to 20,000 kms, and touch wood, things have been fine so far...

Hope it stays same too.
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Old 6th July 2013, 12:52   #7
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjstyles69 View Post
Considering the fact that you have replaced the clutch we can rule out the possibility of clutch wear and broken finger springs from the clutch assembly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Clutch judder is a known issue, some cars have it more compared to other.
Hi! I have a 10-year old Santro. The clutch plate, pressure plate, release bearing & pilot bush were replaced at 2 different dealers' workshops, once 5 years ago & again 6 months ago. Both times the reason for replacement was a hard clutch. There was no clutch slippage. The flywheel was neither machined nor replaced as it was supposedly fine.
The car developed clutch judder after the 1st clutch overhaul. The service advisor at the 1st workshop said that it was due to weak springs on the OEM clutch plate & nothing could be done. So I lived it with it for 5 years. After the 2nd clutch overhaul also, the judder has persisted. In fact it has gone from bad to worse & is now almost unbearable.
I am planning to get the clutch overhauled yet again, this time by an independent mechanic & using non-OEM components this time. Can anyone recommend a few brands?
Clutch Auto, Faridabad seems to manufacture aftermarket clutch components for Santro (info from company website). Does anyone have any personal experience with Clutch Auto products?
Thanks in advance for your replies.

Last edited by nura : 6th July 2013 at 12:54.
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Old 7th July 2013, 19:40   #8
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

Quote:
Originally Posted by nura View Post
Hi! I have a 10-year old Santro.
=======
Clutch Auto, Faridabad seems to manufacture aftermarket clutch components for Santro (info from company website). Does anyone have any personal experience with Clutch Auto products?
Thanks in advance for your replies.
Since its a 10 year old car am assuming it has done more than 70-80k kms, this time dont spare any expense if you plan to keep the car. Replace the flywheel and release bearing along with clutch and pressure plate. Maybe the cable also. Then see the difference.
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Old 9th July 2013, 11:54   #9
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Since its a 10 year old car am assuming it has done more than 70-80k kms, this time dont spare any expense if you plan to keep the car. Replace the flywheel and release bearing along with clutch and pressure plate. Maybe the cable also. Then see the difference.
Thanks for your reply. The car has done 115k km. Clutch plate, pressure plate, release bearing, pilot bearing & clutch cable were replaced each time clutch was overhauled. Will definitely ask my independent mechanic to take a closer look at the flywheel this time. However if it is a manufacturing defect in the original clutch plate that is causing the judder, I may need an aftermarket one. Can you suggest any brands?
Thanks in advance.
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Old 9th July 2013, 12:52   #10
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

Quote:
Originally Posted by nura View Post
However if it is a manufacturing defect in the original clutch plate that is causing the judder, I may need an aftermarket one. Can you suggest any brands?
Thanks in advance.
Clutch judder if its from the plates, then its the spring. Buy a genuine replacement part from a reliable shop, that is the only thing you can do. Or else you will have to go for upgraded performance plates, which will be an overkill for a stock car IMHO. I am not familiar with santro parts, hence not much of help with the manufacturer name etc.
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Old 9th July 2013, 13:21   #11
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Or else you will have to go for upgraded performance plates, which will be an overkill for a stock car IMHO
Thanks for your reply. I also fear that a performance clutch using a lighter flywheel may itself cause judder.
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Old 18th March 2014, 18:08   #12
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

I had the clutch overhauled again. This time the flywheel too was replaced. The clutch judder is still there. Any suggestions?
Read somewhere about a dry bush causing clutch judder on a BMW. Will appreciate your comments.
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Old 18th March 2014, 18:43   #13
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

New clutch is just like new engine,It needs running in. Few 100 km constant speed, later some down shifting & up shifting with good speeds on clear road will give even surface between clutch & flywheel. Along with that Gear shifting also Improves.
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Old 19th March 2014, 01:50   #14
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

My brand new Ertiga also had clutch juddar and it seems a problem with Maruti not able to pinpoint the actual issue though they are not accepting it that there is a problem with their product. They changed the clutch plates on my car and the juddar did reduce considerably but was not completely eliminated. Now I have learned to live with the juddar and when I drive my dad's Vista quadrajet, miss the juddar. (man what am I saying)
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Old 19th March 2014, 19:26   #15
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Default Re: Some issues (clutch judder, vibrations etc.) with my new Swift ZDi

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Originally Posted by kailashnj View Post
My brand new Ertiga also had clutch juddar and it seems a problem with Maruti not able to pinpoint the actual issue though they are not accepting it that there is a problem with their product. They changed the clutch plates on my car and the juddar did reduce considerably but was not completely eliminated. Now I have learned to live with the juddar and when I drive my dad's Vista quadrajet, miss the juddar. (man what am I saying)
At what point does the judder start and when does it fade off?

Where is the judder felt now?

Anurag.
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