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Old 31st July 2012, 02:11   #1
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Exclamation Engine Rebuild Cost and Materials for Optra - Is the price accurate?

Hey guys,

Just a few days ago I got the engine and front suspension overhaul done for my Optra.
Here's the bill amount quoted by the FNG. Does the price seem a bit too high?

I could really use your expert comments and suggestions on this.
Can someone take a look at this, and let me know if all the parts seem relevant, along with the pricing?

I am attaching a screenshot of the bill amount.
Any help and pointers in this regard will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for looking into this request of mine, fellas.
Cheers!

Engine Rebuild Cost and Materials for Optra - Is the price accurate?-estimate.jpg

Last edited by GTO : 31st July 2012 at 14:28.
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Old 31st July 2012, 20:24   #2
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Default re: Engine Rebuild Cost and Materials for Optra - Is the price accurate?

IMHO, the overall cost looks okay but the question is, why did you need an engine overhaul? what was the ODO reading, and what were the symptoms/problems (power loss, etc.) which lead to this? is your Optra a petrol one or the diesel mill? knowing about the background of all this would make it easier to comment.
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Old 31st July 2012, 20:35   #3
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Default re: Engine Rebuild Cost and Materials for Optra - Is the price accurate?

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Originally Posted by infotech58 View Post
IMHO, the overall cost looks okay but the question is, why did you need an engine overhaul? what was the ODO reading, and what were the symptoms/problems (power loss, etc.) which lead to this? is your Optra a petrol one or the diesel mill? knowing about the background of all this would make it easier to comment.
Its a petrol given that the bill includes spark plugs!

I wonder what was wrong with the engine to have required a complete rebuild with a new cam.
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Old 31st July 2012, 20:44   #4
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Default re: Engine Rebuild Cost and Materials for Optra - Is the price accurate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourav9385 View Post
Here's the bill amount quoted by the FNG. Does the price seem a bit too high?
Since when did FNGs start charging VAT separately?
22k for engine lathe work (12k) plus engine assembly & suspension repair labour charges (10k)? And then another 1000 bucks for consumables? Wow! You're lucky he didn't add on service tax @12.5%.
Almost 30k for a set of pistons and rings? Wow again. More like ouch. What brand of pistons?
A thrust washer at 1600 bucks!
Transmission fluid? You have an automatic? Or is it gear oil?

Frankly, I have seen imports similarly repaired for less. If this was from your FNG, what would the authorized service centre charge?
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Old 31st July 2012, 20:44   #5
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Default re: Engine Rebuild Cost and Materials for Optra - Is the price accurate?

Hi,
Spark plugs indicate a petrol.

You can always check against manufacturers list prices, and labour charges (which should be based on hourly rates).

The Optra is not a very common car, so a definitive comment might be long in coming.

On the face of it, seems OK for a major overhaul. Machine shop charges:- depends on what was done. Question then is why the overhaul? Were all parts actually changed? Why were the cams changed? (Is it recommended in the Service Manual?). Also con rods/ bolts not changed. (Once again you have to check the service manual)

In todays economics, it does not pay to do a major overhaul, esp in a car with low residual value. Exchange it for a new car.

Regards
Sutripta

@SS:- Low volume cars are semi-exotics. To keep dealers happy, the manufacturer exorbitantly prices service and spares. Nothing much to be done, once in their clutches. Also variation of planned obsolescence. (In another case, I similarly blew my top in the case of rings. But the list price was exorbitant. Rings can be surprisingly expensive. Which is surprising, considering how little material there is in it. Also if the rings are costly, it is a easy target for fitting third party rings.)

Last edited by Sutripta : 31st July 2012 at 20:54.
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Old 31st July 2012, 21:23   #6
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Default re: Engine Rebuild Cost and Materials for Optra - Is the price accurate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourav9385 View Post
Hey guys,

I am attaching a screenshot of the bill amount.
Any help and pointers in this regard will be greatly appreciated.

Attachment 963732
Is this the Optra 1.8 petrol or the Optra 1.6 petrol ?

Here are prices of some parts for the Optra 1.6 petrol :

Clutch and pressure plate: Rs.4217/- (does not include the clutch release bearing)
Oil Filter: Rs.78/-
Spark Plug (entire set): Rs. 276/-
Suspension lower arm: Rs.3970/-

Assuming that these prices are before tax, it looks like you have a big difference except for the suspension lower arm.
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Old 31st July 2012, 21:45   #7
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Default re: Engine Rebuild Cost and Materials for Optra - Is the price accurate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrackedHead View Post
I wonder what was wrong with the engine to have required a complete rebuild with a new cam.
Thanks for the quick response mate! Much appreciated.
There was a hydraulic tappet issue which made the engine too noisy during operation. Sounded almost like a diesel!
Plus, there was an engine bearing issue which resulted in the Engine Oil pressure light coming on at low RPM.
Plus, the car was 8 years old and had done a whole lotta miles.
The previous owner had put mostly spurious parts in it, which meant that the car was in a real bad shape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Since when did FNGs start charging VAT separately?
22k for engine lathe work (12k) plus engine assembly & suspension repair labour charges (10k)? And then another 1000 bucks for consumables? Wow! .
Almost 30k for a set of pistons and rings? What brand of pistons?
A thrust washer at 1600 bucks!
Transmission fluid? You have an automatic? Or is it gear oil?
Thanks for the quick response mate! Much appreciated.
I had the same question, when I saw the bill.
I had no idea that every single part will have VAT levied on it, individually! Also, I too think that labor charges are a bit too much for the job that has been done.
Do you think it's wise to haggle with the garage, now that the job has been completed?
I am not aware of the brand of pistons that have been used. I am guessing these parts have been purchased directly from GM.
So they might just be the stock parts that come with the car as such.
Will ask for clarification from the FNG, the day I go to pick up the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Hi,
Spark plugs indicate a petrol.
Thanks for the quick response mate! Much appreciated.
A petrol 1.6 LS from 2004 it is indeed! And, it has done close to 100,000 km's. I know that the spares of the Optra are expensive.
More so now, that the car is going to go off the production line.
Anyways, I intend to keep this car for 3-4 more years, and the car needed an overhaul considering the shape it was in.
Even though, I know it is not a good idea to keep this car for long.
The wife really likes it, actually .

@ All - Thank you so very much for the prompt responses. It is greatly appreciated!
Regarding the question about the overhaul, there was a hydraulic tappet issue which made the engine too noisy during operation.
Sounded almost like a diesel! Too much clatter.
Plus, there was an bearing issue which resulted in the Engine Oil pressure light coming on at low RPM.
I did try replacing the oil pressure sensor twice, but it was not the issue.
Plus, the car was 8 years old and had done a whole lotta miles.
The previous owner had put mostly spurious parts in it, which meant that the car was in a real bad shape.

Now, most people would call me crazy when they come to know that I bought the car for 1.5, and have spent more than 80k on it, just in repairs!
The thing is, the wife and I had no intentions of taking a car loan.
And no 2nd hand car was available for less than 2, that we liked, at the time we bought this car.
We had just put down all our savings on our new house, so we were kinda broke .
The wife liked the car as it is hugely spacious on the inside, has a big boot, and rides very well.
I too liked the space and the comfort.
Plus, we needed a car to replace my ageing bike pronto, as I had no intentions of getting another 2 wheeler for 1 lakh, again!
So the Optra was kind of the only choice available.


Anyways, I will take up these points with the FNG when I go to take back the car. Things to ask :

1. VAT thingy: Are they quoting the actual price of the spare as they bought it? And is the VAT for my reference?
Or are they charging the VAT for themselves? If they are doing the former, then in that case, can I ask for the bill of materials that they have got while purchasing the spares?
Does that make sense?

2. Labor charges: Seems a bit too much. So shall I haggle? Does it make sense to haggle on it?

Do let me know your thoughts fellas. Thanks again. This community is just awesome!
Cheers!
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Old 31st July 2012, 22:41   #8
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Default re: Engine Rebuild Cost and Materials for Optra - Is the price accurate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourav9385 View Post
There was a hydraulic tappet issue which made the engine too noisy during operation. Sounded almost like a diesel!
Plus, there was an engine bearing issue which resulted in the Engine Oil pressure light coming on at low RPM.
Plus, the car was 8 years old and had done a whole lotta miles.
What you report does not appear to require pistons + rings + liners replacement. 100k is NOT a 'whole lotta miles', contrary to your perception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourav9385 View Post
Things to ask :

1. VAT thingy: Are they quoting the actual price of the spare as they bought it? And is the VAT for my reference?
Or are they charging the VAT for themselves? If they are doing the former, then in that case, can I ask for the bill of materials that they have got while purchasing the spares?
Does that make sense?

2. Labor charges: Seems a bit too much. So shall I haggle? Does it make sense to haggle on it?
Sorry if I sound a little mean, but why on earth would one NOT bargain with an FNG? Especially when his prices seem to be very high?

And if the FNG has indeed procured spares from GM, VAT would have been included in the price ONLY IF a proper bill was taken - and they should be able to show it to you. The FNG cannot charge you VAT all over again.
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Old 31st July 2012, 23:00   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller
What you report does not appear to require pistons + rings + liners replacement...
Right you are mate. So I shall discuss this with them and get the bills if they have. If not, then it stands to reason that I do not have to pay VAT, right?

And on a different note, you don't sound mean at all. I do appreciate you trying to get the point across firmly. Thanks again for the quick response

Last edited by sourav9385 : 31st July 2012 at 23:02.
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Old 31st July 2012, 23:03   #10
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Default re: Engine Rebuild Cost and Materials for Optra - Is the price accurate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller
And if the FNG has indeed procured spares from GM, VAT would have been included in the price ONLY IF a proper bill was taken - and they should be able to show it to you. The FNG cannot charge you VAT all over again.
Sir,
Even if FNG purchased the parts from GM paying VAT to GM, they (FNG) has to collect VAT from the customer. IIRC, its mandatory to collect VAT if the VAT Registration has been done by the particular company.

I will give our own example--
We are Electrical Contractors of MSEDCL. When we purchase some electrical material from Supplier/Manufacturer and sell it to MSEDCL, we pay VAT to Supplier/Manufacturer as per VAT Rules and collect VAT from MSEDCL @5% (overall since MSEDCL is exempted from charging 12.5% VAT in Maharashtra. i.e. MSEDCL cannot be charged VAT other than 5% irrespective of the VAT Rate at which the Contractor has purchased the respective material).

The above matter might be Off-Topic.

Last edited by IndigoXLGrandDi : 31st July 2012 at 23:06.
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Old 31st July 2012, 23:30   #11
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Default re: Engine Rebuild Cost and Materials for Optra - Is the price accurate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sourav9385 View Post
Anyways, I will take up these points with the FNG when I go to take back the car. Things to ask :

1. VAT thingy: Are they quoting the actual price of the spare as they bought it? And is the VAT for my reference?
Or are they charging the VAT for themselves? If they are doing the former, then in that case, can I ask for the bill of materials that they have got while purchasing the spares?
Does that make sense?

2. Labor charges: Seems a bit too much. So shall I haggle? Does it make sense to haggle on it?

Do let me know your thoughts fellas. Thanks again. This community is just awesome!
Cheers!
First of all, do not go to a FNG if you do not have a friend who has been servicing his\her car there for years or vouch for it, when the work is complicated and costs a bomb.

Anyways you cannot undo that now, is he a trust able guy ? what does your instinct say ? The amount quoted has to be for sure haggled. Do not give in. Take a friend who knows a thing or two about cars to argue along with you or even if you dont have one, take a guy and make him pretend so.

Ask the mechanic for all the bills, original. say Chevy authorized service centre quotes a much lower price, negotiate saying how could you recommend your friends when the cost is so high when compared to the A$$.

Take this bill and compare the prices with A$$, if needed take along a mechanic with you and pay him a couple of hundreds to haggle along side.

In chennai, we could fix a totaled ACCENT CRDi from an accident within 70K. should not cost you anything more than 1 lac whatsoever.

I think i have given some heads up, be as creative as you can and break the mechanic's bill by close to -30% and then start bargaining, so that he would know that you wont budge for anything more than 1.2 lacs


All the Best,
Chaos
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Old 1st August 2012, 12:24   #12
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Default Re: Engine Rebuild Cost and Materials for Optra - Is the price accurate?

Machine shop charges & on top labour charges for engine overhaul ! I think 10K has been 'pocketed' by the FNG on this particular job. As always, haggle more on labour than the parts. Discount the VAT amount 16K also. So, start your initial bid at about 90K & don't go more than 120-125K.

Also, as others have pointed out, 90% of the times, one doesn't NEED an overhaul at 100K. It is just that we lose confidence in the machine & workshops are reluctant to trace the minor issues faced. Once they see its high mileage, they immediately settle for overhaul to set 'everything' right.

Overhauling is more of a Brute force approach to solving complicated engine problems.More often than not, the actual remedy costs only a fraction of the overhaul cost.

Did you have a word with Chevy A.S.S regarding this? Does chevy sell Half-engine assys.?
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Old 1st August 2012, 20:14   #13
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Default Re: Engine Rebuild Cost and Materials for Optra - Is the price accurate?

Hi,
Had totally missed out that it was with the FNG. Assumed it was with the A S S. Sorry!

1 Lac is not time for a major engine overhaul. A hydraulic tappet can collapse, causing quite a racket. Normal remedy is to change just that, and check out the oil lines/ pressure.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 1st August 2012, 20:59   #14
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Default Re: Engine Rebuild Cost and Materials for Optra - Is the price accurate?

Quote:
The previous owner had put mostly spurious parts in it, which meant that the car was in a real bad shape.
What does that mean; engine work done earlier too?

Why separate charges for piston and Piston Rings. Usually pistons comes with rings.
Further all engine components are getting replaced and get proper justification for the same.

Last edited by rajeev k : 1st August 2012 at 21:01.
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Old 1st August 2012, 23:26   #15
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Default Re: Engine Rebuild Cost and Materials for Optra - Is the price accurate?

This bill amount could fetch you another optra and exchange spares with it. This is outrageous, why oh why would you want to buy a car like this and then get it repaired ? Even if it came for free. They did not spare you the water wash (Rs.350) either.
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