Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11th September 2012, 16:25   #16
BHPian
 
gandalf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 93
Thanked: 22 Times
Default Re: Skoda Rapid(ly) Overhauled - Suspension & Brakes

Hi,
Sorry for the late reply, just saw your post
I had the similar problem with my palio after i did a balencing and allignment.
I had done the allignment and rotation from a place close to home and I was not satisfied with the way they did the job. the car was pulling to the left... when i complained about they interchanged the front tyres and it was fine. I did not bother too much then. after 5K Kms the inner portion of the tyres were worn out badly similar to this. A mechanic noticed this and asked me to get an allgnment. I went to the A.S.S and had them check the vehicle. they too suggested to get an allignment. I went to the most reputed allignment guy i could find and got it done. I also had to change all 4 tyres :. (One of them was a brand new tyre (Spare Tyre that was put on as part of rotation)
Now i have driven 5K Kms and the tyres are in perfect condition. No issues at all.
I just posted my experience here to tell you that the issue could be due to badly alligned tyres and that the tyres could go this bad in 5K kms (My experience). Has the Skoda dealership itself done the allignment till now? if yes then this could be their issue itself.

Last edited by gandalf : 11th September 2012 at 16:32. Reason: Added content
gandalf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2012, 17:24   #17
Senior - BHPian
 
anachronix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Madras
Posts: 3,248
Thanked: 1,241 Times
Default Re: Skoda Rapid(ly) Overhauled - Suspension & Brakes

I am surprised that you never realised that the tires are shot off so badly and the sideways movement of the wheels would have also meant strong vibrations that could have been easily felt on the steering. Something that would have called for an early attention rather than wait for the periodic service.

Dont get me wrong, but from the pictures the car looks to be totally abused by whoever was using it!
anachronix is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2012, 11:44   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
Deeps's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delhi/Noida
Posts: 1,090
Thanked: 67 Times
Default Re: Skoda Rapid(ly) Overhauled - Suspension & Brakes

As we're talking about Skoda and their dealers, can we also consider the possibility of swapped suspension parts and tyres when Ankur's car went into servicing?

This would not be the first time Skoda has done this and would not be surprising. I am also surprised how symptoms of suspension problems were not discovered while driving.
Deeps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2012, 14:36   #19
BHPian
 
Turbo Head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 257
Thanked: 68 Times
Default Re: Skoda Rapid(ly) Overhauled - Suspension & Brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by gandalf View Post
Hi,
Sorry for the late reply, just saw your post
I had the similar problem with my palio after i did a balencing and allignment.
I had done the allignment and rotation from a place close to home and I was not satisfied with the way they did the job. the car was pulling to the left... when i complained about they interchanged the front tyres and it was fine. I did not bother too much then. after 5K Kms the inner portion of the tyres were worn out badly similar to this. A mechanic noticed this and asked me to get an allgnment. I went to the A.S.S and had them check the vehicle. they too suggested to get an allignment. I went to the most reputed allignment guy i could find and got it done. I also had to change all 4 tyres :. (One of them was a brand new tyre (Spare Tyre that was put on as part of rotation)
Now i have driven 5K Kms and the tyres are in perfect condition. No issues at all.
I just posted my experience here to tell you that the issue could be due to badly alligned tyres and that the tyres could go this bad in 5K kms (My experience). Has the Skoda dealership itself done the allignment till now? if yes then this could be their issue itself.
No the alignment and balancing was not done at Skoda workshop, however same was carried out at a very reputed tyre dealer in Ggn. Also please note the car was not pulling/vibrating or giving ANY type of apparent symptoms that suspension/tyres were damaged so badly. Else a prevention action would have been taken immediately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronix View Post
I am surprised that you never realised that the tires are shot off so badly and the sideways movement of the wheels would have also meant strong vibrations that could have been easily felt on the steering. Something that would have called for an early attention rather than wait for the periodic service.

Dont get me wrong, but from the pictures the car looks to be totally abused by whoever was using it!
My best guess is that the entire thing happened in a short span of time, ideally less than 5K kms (as the condition of tyres was perfect during last wheel alignment/balancing).

As for vibrations/pulling the car on one side, none of the problems were apparent atleast to me/my driver as we rarely do high speed/spirited driving during the usual commute and at normal speeds the car/steering was behaving absolutely fine.

As for abuse, I have kept atleast a dozen cars including Premier Padmini, Indica, Indigo, Scorpio,SX4, Swift, Figo, Estilo, Honda Civic AT etc. and filled each one of them with decent mileage before parting. Believe you me none of them has ever asked for any major suspension problems, only Indica showed up few tantrums (changed few bushes/front shockers) and was running flawlessly even after doing 1.2 Lac+ kms. Swift is still going strong even after 1.5 Lac kms that too after having a CNG Cylinder in its boot. Also please note I was consistently getting very good mileage (18-23 kmpl) and also praising it wholeheartedly on various forums, which IMHO is not possible in case of abuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deeps View Post
As we're talking about Skoda and their dealers, can we also consider the possibility of swapped suspension parts and tyres when Ankur's car went into servicing?

This would not be the first time Skoda has done this and would not be surprising. I am also surprised how symptoms of suspension problems were not discovered while driving.
Though the dealer is known, yet going by the ill repute of Skoda workshops, this angle cannot be ignored blindly.
Turbo Head is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2012, 20:01   #20
Distinguished - BHPian
 
SS-Traveller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 6,617
Thanked: 10,768 Times
Default Re: Skoda Rapid(ly) Overhauled - Suspension & Brakes

Going by the appearance in your photos (esp. the 4th and 5th images), you have strut damper (shock absorber) failure & evident oil leakage. The rest of it (worn tyres, worn out anti-roll bar link rods, rubber components of strut damaged) is collateral damage secondary to the dampers having failed.

It may be worth your while to get the other repairs done at your cost, but insist that front suspension struts have to be changed under warranty (since they are covered under warranty as you mentioned) - else you will be back to square one with worn tyres and loosened links and ball joints, in 5000 km again.

Get the workshop to remove, dissemble and demonstrate to you that the strut dampers are not leaking - there are oil traces on the body. Worst case scenario, you might need to forego your warranty and change the struts from outside - your being based in Delhi gives you easier access to Skoda spares, and anyway, Skoda warranties obviously suck.

Also, link rod (pic#4) is not a rubber/plastic part, and should be covered under warranty. (You could hit the workshop manager on the head with the link rod to test if it's metal / rubber / plastic... )

Edit: Scrutinised your estimate - no mention of the strut requiring change, but mentions strut mounting to be changed at your cost. New struts come with their own mounting, and don't need to be paid for separately. And which ball bearings need changing? The brake pads prices appear quite reasonable, considering this is a Skoda.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 12th September 2012 at 20:09.
SS-Traveller is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th September 2012, 19:51   #21
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Chennai
Posts: 818
Thanked: 1,647 Times
Default Re: Skoda Rapid(ly) Overhauled - Suspension & Brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo Head View Post
I got a call from my service adviser that he has detected some problems in brakes & suspension and suspension needs complete overhauling,


Front tyre was moving sideways (when the vehicle was on lift).


There was considerable wear on innerside of the tyre.


Situation was similar on LHS, however the effect was relatively less.


This end joint needs to be replaced, as it has some play



Both front shocker rubber mounts are damaged


Check the remarks of workshop manager (handwritten)

All suggestions & critics most welcome to participate.
Better late than never. So here you are:

1. There is no problem with your suspension so even if you change the entire suspension assemblies the problem will persist.

2. The problems that you have experienced are the symptoms displayed by tyres when the canvas is exposed to the extent it is so in your car - symptoms such as wobbling, pulling to one side, erratic handling all of which are exactly the same as exhibited when there are suspension problems.

3. Your statement that you do not engage in spirited driving is true because with tyres like that you have you cannot go beyond 50 kmph without feeling excessive wobbling and erratic handling.

4. What is most certainly surprising is that neither you nor your driver have noticed or been able to feel this problem despite driving 100 kms every day! As I have said in other threads Skoda's and drivers don't go together and if you continue to have a driver be prepared for more such surprises.

5. Driving with such worn out tyres is dangerous to you, your family and other road users and you must thank yourself that the service interval came up before the tyres burst so that no untoward situation happened.

6. There is no leak from your shock absorbers - the top of the spring appears to show a leak but it is only an effect of the low lighting in the pic. The lower part of the strut is bone dry indicating that there is no leak at all.

7. What would have happened is that after doing the suspension work the workshop would have either rotated your tyres or asked to you to fix a new set. Rotation would have reduced the problem while new tyres would have completely removed it.

8. In future, for your own safety, give your tyres a visual inspection - don't ask your driver to do this - do this yourself.
VeyronSuperSprt is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 18th September 2012, 21:33   #22
Distinguished - BHPian
 
SS-Traveller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 6,617
Thanked: 10,768 Times
Default Re: Skoda Rapid(ly) Overhauled - Suspension & Brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
1. There is no problem with your suspension so even if you change the entire suspension assemblies the problem will persist.
So how did the tyres wear out? Gremlins living in cracks on the road surface of Delhi & NCR chewed them up?
Quote:
...symptoms displayed by tyres when the canvas is exposed to the extent it is so in your car - symptoms such as wobbling, pulling to one side, erratic handling all of which are exactly the same as exhibited when there are suspension problems.
4. What is most certainly surprising is that neither you nor your driver have noticed or been able to feel this problem despite driving 100 kms every day! As I have said in other threads Skoda's and drivers don't go together and if you continue to have a driver be prepared for more such surprises
Do worn tyres always show up as a wobbling of wheels when the car is lifted on a car lift and the wheel rocked from side to side?
Quote:
6. There is no leak from your shock absorbers - the top of the spring appears to show a leak but it is only an effect of the low lighting in the pic. The lower part of the strut is bone dry indicating that there is no leak at all.
Do shock absorbers always have to be soaking wet in oil in the "lower strut" region, to display definitive proof of failure? The top of a spring appearing to show a leak won't be suspicious by any chance, would it?
Quote:
As I have said in other threads Skoda's and drivers don't go together and if you continue to have a driver be prepared for more such surprises.
Isn't that comment derogatory to all people who drive other people's cars as a profession? For example, a gentleman by the name of Sam Kapasi, who owns a Skoda, and another by the name of Akbar, who drives it, are expected to protest vehemently at your statement.
SS-Traveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th September 2012, 22:00   #23
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Chennai
Posts: 818
Thanked: 1,647 Times
Default Re: Skoda Rapid(ly) Overhauled - Suspension & Brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
So how did the tyres wear out?

Ummm, I thought tyres wear out when you drive a car.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Do worn tyres always show up as a wobbling of wheels when the car is lifted on a car lift and the wheel rocked from side to side?
No.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Do shock absorbers always have to be soaking wet in oil in the "lower strut" region, to display definitive proof of failure?
No.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
The top of a spring appearing to show a leak won't be suspicious by any chance, would it?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Isn't that comment derogatory to all people who drive other people's cars as a profession?
No.
VeyronSuperSprt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th September 2012, 22:07   #24
Distinguished - BHPian
 
SS-Traveller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 6,617
Thanked: 10,768 Times
Default Re: Skoda Rapid(ly) Overhauled - Suspension & Brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
Ummm, I thought tyres wear out when you drive a car.
From the inner edge only?

No.

Happy driving.

Last edited by GTO : 20th September 2012 at 08:57. Reason: Removing last line. Lets not get personal please
SS-Traveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th September 2012, 22:31   #25
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Chennai
Posts: 818
Thanked: 1,647 Times
Default Re: Skoda Rapid(ly) Overhauled - Suspension & Brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
From the inner edge only?
This was because of the below reason:


Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Gremlins living in cracks on the road surface of Delhi & NCR chewed them up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
taking advantage of the vast knowledge base of gentlemen like you.

Last edited by GTO : 19th September 2012 at 11:20. Reason: Please do NOT get personal. You have been warned before
VeyronSuperSprt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th September 2012, 23:05   #26
Senior - BHPian
 
rajeev k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Emerging Metro
Posts: 3,306
Thanked: 1,730 Times
Default Re: Skoda Rapid(ly) Overhauled - Suspension & Brakes

The tyre wear indicates misalignment, in fact one tyre has completely worn out on one edge and the reinforcements are visible. One question how come this was not noticed at all. The movement of the wheel is indicative of worn out wheel bearing.
In my opinion you have to claim for tyres also under warranty. I know instances of Maruti reimbursing half of the tyre cost.
Since you say that you have have only been traveling in good roads the fault definitely is with Skoda.
Wear out of rubber mounts of struts is not abnormal. The struts appear to be another culprit here. The dealer might have got a feel that the car was abused over rough and bad roads after seeing the damages and hence would not have even thought of warranty cover.
I had been drooling on the Rapid instead of Vento, but this made me think the other way.

Last edited by rajeev k : 18th September 2012 at 23:16.
rajeev k is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 19th September 2012, 14:28   #27
Team-BHP Support
 
noopster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 8,662
Thanked: 9,184 Times
Default Re: Skoda Rapid(ly) Overhauled - Suspension & Brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
I had been drooling on the Rapid instead of Vento, but this made me think the other way.
It's pretty much the same car. In fact even Ventos show a lot of tyre wear around the 30,000 km mark. caused by misalignment as per the a.s.s Am having mine checked soon during the second service.
noopster is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2012, 09:45   #28
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Chennai
Posts: 818
Thanked: 1,647 Times
Default Re: Skoda Rapid(ly) Overhauled - Suspension & Brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
The tyre wear indicates misalignment.
In an indirect way, yes – let me clarify. If you look at the tyres (these are Apollo Accelere’s) – they have worn out about 95% already.
If you look at Pic no:1, you will notice the tyre has two problem areas – the first being the inner wall area closest to the tread where the canvas has been exposed and the second on a further inner area where the tyre has cracked open along the inner circumference. This would have happened only in the last 1000 kms or less as otherwise the tyre would have burst.

The exposure of the canvas has caused the tyre to sit lower on it’s inner wall creating the negative camber effect and this has resulted in the enhanced wear in the inner area. Except for the innermost tread bar, the rest of the tread has worn out in a perfectly even manner. It is only the innermost tread bar that has worn out indicating a negative camber on the suspension. So really it is not the alignment that has created the negative camber but the weak walls that have created the misalignment.

Hope this clarifies for the inner part alone wearing out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rajeev k View Post
The movement of the wheel is indicative of worn out wheel bearing.
When the canvas on the tyre wall is exposed and additionally cracked to the extent shown here, the tyre becomes deformed during its rotating action – (the area without proper support would compress more than the area with support). On rotation this would show a wobbling motion and on the ramp while rotating the tyre it would exhibit the symptoms of worn wheel bearings as the weak wall will make the tyre move about on the rim reproducing the situation similar to that of worn wheel bearings.

Last edited by VeyronSuperSprt : 20th September 2012 at 09:47.
VeyronSuperSprt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2012, 10:47   #29
BHPian
 
Sprucegoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 311
Thanked: 38 Times
Default Re: Skoda Rapid(ly) Overhauled - Suspension & Brakes

1> Also as Deeps has mentioned before, this is Skoda we are talking about.
they could easily have taken off the suspension & tyres of some other car and put them into his.

2> If it is a problem like the *** has said with the mounting and the bushing why are they doing a complete overhaul, sounds like they want some good parts from your car that they can sell off cheap

3> Wont be surprised if they loosened the wheel nuts a bit so that the tyre would wobble or is someone else had done that [alignment guy]

I had removed a wheel from my OHC once for getting a puncture fixed, but when the tyre was mounted back on, all the bolts weren't tightened properly. Only 2 were. A couple of days later 1 had fallen off and another one was loose. Something like that might have happened.
Sprucegoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th September 2012, 12:14   #30
Senior - BHPian
 
rajeev k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Emerging Metro
Posts: 3,306
Thanked: 1,730 Times
Default Re: Skoda Rapid(ly) Overhauled - Suspension & Brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
On rotation this would show a wobbling motion and on the ramp while rotating the tyre it would exhibit the symptoms of worn wheel bearings as the weak wall will make the tyre move about on the rim reproducing the situation similar to that of worn wheel bearings.
I was referring to the wheel assy and not the tyre alone. If it moves laterally it is bearing wear, usually known when you hold one hand at the bottom and other hand at the top and move it.
rajeev k is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Skoda's Advisory on the Rapid's brakes VeyronSuperSprt Technical Stuff 50 5th September 2016 22:54
A red hot rapid install in a red hot (Skoda) Rapid Samridh In-Car Entertainment 28 18th August 2013 00:49
Skoda Octavia at 175k kms- Suspension, Brakes, Axles etc overhaul query metanoia75 Technical Stuff 1 26th November 2011 12:54
Gypsy - Overhauled!! rmonie 4x4 Vehicles 70 4th October 2010 00:06
Problem in partly overhauled 5 speed maruti 800 ramkris Technical Stuff 19 3rd August 2010 13:25


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 08:49.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks