Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th March 2014, 11:10   #31
Senior - BHPian
 
alpha1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: P00NA
Posts: 1,622
Thanked: 957 Times
Default Re: Skoda's Advisory on the Rapid's brakes

Doesn't this problem warrant an open disclosure for recall by VAG?
@VeyronSuperSprt : why is the letter that you have posted so secretive that even the Skoda workshops don't know about this issue?
alpha1 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 23rd April 2014, 20:50   #32
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 11
Thanked: Once
Default Re: Skoda's Advisory on the Rapid's brakes

I had this steering shudder issue on a couple of occassions. First around the 12k mark when i was braking at high speeds, above 90 - and this happens only when i brake hard, and not during gradual smooth braking.
I told the service guys and sent the car for running repair, and they said it was a known issue and said they would fix the brake lining and brake pads which seemed to have resolved the issue.
But it started happening again at around 23k mark, and the SA in Mahavir Hyd told me that he would do something called 'facing' the discs - which would resolve it. and after another 4000k they would actually replace the brake pads.
My question is, do we have to get this done like every 10k Km? thats going to be quite a pain, whats the experience of other users?
pramodallamraju is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th July 2014, 13:04   #33
Newbie
 
onedotsix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 22
Thanked: 17 Times
Angry Re: Skoda's Advisory on the Rapid's brakes

My brake pads have failed again. For the 3rd time, the vehicle was tower away yesterday. The first time at 12000kms (to Vinayak Skoda BLR), the second at 29000kms (to Vision Skoda Calicut) and now at 56000kms(to Tafe Access BLR). This is absolute ridiculous, each time I have paid for the replacements. But this time, I'm not taking it. I have written to both Skoda India and Skoda Global and have asked Tafe to not proceed with the repair (I've been informed that both pad and discs need to be replaced, again!) untill I get a response from them.
The most interesting thing is that on all 3 occasions it is the front left side pads that have worn out, each time the right side pads are in proper shape. And the service advisers tell me its normal wear and tear depending on driving style. Yes, I've been using brakes on one side only.
onedotsix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2015, 00:24   #34
Newbie
 
Shreko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Belgaum
Posts: 6
Thanked: 0 Times
Default Re: Skoda's Advisory on the Rapid's brakes

Hello,

I am new to this forum and i have this steering shudder issue when i break hard (above 90). Its just been 6 months and 12k done . I am eligible for the warranty? or do i have to pay for the replacements (If any).

I thought of checking here first before dialing the Vinayak Cars Service.
Shreko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2015, 15:25   #35
Senior - BHPian
 
coolboy007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 1,717
Thanked: 1,439 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreko View Post
I thought of checking here first before dialing the Vinayak Cars Service.
That is definitely brake shudder, the steering and car vibrates upon braking from high speeds. Am shocked that Skoda has not solved this even after 3 years of launch.

Warranty on brakes is only till 6 month/10,000 kms and there is very less chance they will honour you warraty. No harm in trying though, shoot a strong worded mail to Skoda and then visit your service centre. If they dont honour warranty, they will ask you to change the rotors costing 5000 + pads costing 2000 so whole thing will set you back by 7-8k.

I had the same issue in my Vento at 13k kms and got the rotors skimmed at a lathe machine for 600 + new pads 2000 at an independent garage. Car is running fine till now at 34,000 kms after that.
coolboy007 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2015, 19:53   #36
Newbie
 
Shreko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Belgaum
Posts: 6
Thanked: 0 Times
Default Re: Skoda's Advisory on the Rapid's brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolboy007 View Post
That is definitely brake shudder, the steering and car vibrates upon braking from high speeds. Am shocked that Skoda has not solved this even after 3 years of launch.
.
.
.
I had the same issue in my Vento at 13k kms and got the rotors skimmed at a lathe machine for 600 + new pads 2000 at an independent garage. Car is running fine till now at 34,000 kms after that.
Thank you coolboy007!!

Let me try emailing Skoda India team, i will update their response here accordingly.
Shreko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2015, 08:55   #37
BHPian
 
shramik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 86
Thanked: 79 Times
Default Re: Skoda's Advisory on the Rapid's brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalpurja View Post
Hi Coolboy, Did your friend get any information from Service center? Even my car is March 2012.
Gentlemen,

I acquired a Skoda Rapid Ultima on 20th June 2014, registered on June 30th 2014. The car is only used for out station journeys for my business travels. Around 12,000 Kms, I started noticing brake judder when braking from speeds of around 160 Kmph, with consequent vibrations on the steering wheel. The brake judder then started occurring at lower speeds, at around 100 Kms, with more vibrations on the steering wheel. I visually checked the discs through the alloy spokes, and found no evidence of disc scoring. Since it was on the verge of its 15,000 Kms service, I sent it in to TAFE Bangalore, at about 14,600 Kms, with a remark that this issue has to be addressed with some urgency.

The next day, I was informed (predictably) that the discs & pads have be changed & paid for. I asked them to measure the disc run out, & predictably again, the service adviser had no clue what I was speaking about. I told him that brake disc failure at 12,000 Kms can only happen due to disc quality issues, & that I needed to speak to someone who could converse with me on a more or less equal basis on technical issues. Through the sales person who had handled the sales, I was able to elicit contact with their Service Manager, Mr Naveen. He was extremely professional, knew his job, and promised to measure the run out after we discussed how I wanted it measured. The next day, I was told that the run to was in excess of 20 thou, and that, in his opinion which I share, the casting of the parent disc material was very obviously defective. He agreed the replace the discs under warranty, but said he would be constrained to charge for the pads. To get the car back on the road, I agreed to pay for the pads "under protest" more on a matter of principle, that economy.

I figured that if the discs are confirmed to be off defective castings, the mating component will be very obviously be subject to far greater wear than if the discs were even. He seemed to agree personally, & so today, I intend to take the matter with Skoda Poona.

I request as many affected Skoda / VW users who have faced similar problems ( & I do see many have !!) around the same mileage, to please write to me at shramik.masturlal@gmail.com so I can cite these examples to prove that mine was NOT a one off case, but is symptomatic of the quality of discs. I intend to ask Skoda to recall cars in required, and refund cost of discs, pads etc wherever charged.

I am not willing to accept a situation where car prices are reduced with serious consequences to components, particularly those affecting high speed safety. The Skoda Rapid is capable of speeds in excess of 180 Kmph. Brake discs which begin to get affected at these speeds is an issue the manufacturers MUST address with seriousness. Trying to blame driving habits should not be an excuse for poor component design.

I look forward to hearing from as many Rapid/VW users as possible, at the earliest, so a proper representation can be made to Skoda/VW.

Kind Regards
SHRAMIK MASTURLAL
shramik.masturlal@gmai.com
+919845013893
shramik is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 30th January 2015, 20:56   #38
BHPian
 
deehunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 905
Thanked: 595 Times
Default Re: Skoda's Advisory on the Rapid's brakes

I own a 2013 Skoda Rapid without ABS and agree with the juddering issue when braking and downshifting, I feel this more when I slow down to move over humps. I observed this problem and changed my braking style to reduce the juddering. I usually start slowing down a couple of meters before the humps so that I will be braking when the vehicle is in second gear, this considerably reduces juddering. My suggestion is to balance between slowing down and applying brakes. I can fight over this issue with the service center but do not want to spoil my car knowing well what to expect from ASS.
deehunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2015, 09:26   #39
BHPian
 
shramik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 86
Thanked: 79 Times
Default Re: Skoda's Advisory on the Rapid's brakes

Pleaser ead this paragraph takes from aa1car.com….

Rotors can also develop hard spots that contribute to pedal pulsations and variations in thickness. Hard spots may be the result of poor quality castings or from excessive heat that causes changes in the metallurgy of the rotors. A sticky caliper or dragging brake may make the rotor run hot and increase the risk of hard spots forming. Hard spots can often be seen as discolored patches on the face of the rotor. Resurfacing the rotor is only a temporary fix because the hard spot usually extends well below the surface and usually returns as a pedal pulsation within a few thousand miles. That is why most brake experts replace rotors that have developed hard spots.

It significantly points to quality of metallurgy &/or the machining of the OE discs. I am included to think he former is more appropriate.
shramik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2015, 11:08   #40
BHPian
 
shramik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 86
Thanked: 79 Times
Default Re: Skoda's Advisory on the Rapid's brakes

And read this excerpt takes from www.konwyourparts.com….Makes for very interesting reading, consistent with the issues at hand….

""The Importance of Quality Brake Rotors
Brought to you by AASA
What’s the Difference Between Economy, Standard, and Premium Brake Rotors?
A. Obviously, the price is one difference, but there are also differences in rotor design and cooling, the type of iron alloys used to cast the rotor, noise, wear, and overall performance.
Good brakes are essential for safe driving. One of the key components in a disc brake system is the rotor. When the brakes are applied, the calipers squeeze the pads against the rotor to create friction and heat. This converts the kinetic energy of motion into thermal energy (heat), which the rotors absorb and dissipate to slow the vehicle.
If the rotors are not up to the task, and do not absorb and dissipate heat efficiently, the distance it takes to stop the vehicle may increase. Poor rotor cooling also increases the risk of brake fade due to overheated brake pads, and can shorten the life of the pads. The hotter the pads run, the faster they wear.
The quality of the metal from which a rotor is cast has a major impact on rotor life and performance. The better the metallurgy in the rotor, the better it will perform on the vehicle. Economy rotors are typically made from the cheapest scrap iron. Quality can be very inconsistent from batch to batch and even from one rotor to the next. This can create hard spots that lead to warping and pedal pulsation problems later on as the rotors wear. Rotors that are too soft may wear quickly, while rotors that are too hard may increase pad wear or be noisy. Poor-quality castings that lack the proper hardness and strength are also more likely to warp or crack at high temperature.
Unfortunately, there’s no way to judge the quality of a rotor by its appearance alone. An economy rotor may appear to be nearly identical to a premium-quality rotor, but the metallurgy is often far different. There are many different grades of cast iron, and some make much better brake rotors than others. The specific metallurgy affects its sound qualities, the hardness and wear-resistance of the rotor, and even its friction characteristics.
- See more at: http://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-articles/importance-quality-brake-rotors/#sthash.IbL4Gpk1.dpuf""
shramik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2015, 11:20   #41
Senior - BHPian
 
humyum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Leicester/Mumbai
Posts: 2,289
Thanked: 2,159 Times
Default Re: Skoda's Advisory on the Rapid's brakes

Sorry to hear the brake rotor problems you guys are having and some of the cases definitely look like component defects, but if its happening again and again after replacement, there is something in your braking/maintenance that might be faulty too. It's a maybe, but you guys can try taking these preventive measures and see if it works after you guys get the brakes sorted and everything is new

1) After a high speed brake, don't keep your foot on the brake pedal at the next signal. The brake pad material as well as the disc are super hot and brake pad material will get itched on the disc and will lead to a judder in the future. Use the handbrake while stopping for duration at the signal.

2) Don't let anyone overtighten your leg nuts, major cause of discs wearing out unevenly.

3) Faulty wheel balancing could also lead to a sense of brake judder. Wheel balancing is an art, an art of operator as well as a well calibrated machine which I am sorry to say in Mumbai atleast, out of all the people I have visited over for wheel balancing (I am very paranoid about getting the perfect wheel balance), only Premji Tyres in Thane has it. His machine is well calibrated always and if you instruct the people at the tyre shop to do a dynamic balance for your alloy wheels (weights on both sides), its perfect.
An out of balance wheel will manifest itself into a judder when you brake and at the particular speed of wheel inbalance with your foot on the brake pedal, you will feel the judder.

4) There are many other causes too, but since most of your cars are almost brand new or less than 50K, it does not apply to you guys.

Happy driving.
humyum is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 31st January 2015, 11:39   #42
BHPian
 
shramik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 86
Thanked: 79 Times
Default Re: Skoda's Advisory on the Rapid's brakes

You are right on all 4 counts, but in the instant case(s) I cannot believe that so many drivers across such a wide spectrum can all face the same problems, and that too in the same mileage bracket (9000 Kms to14000 kms). One also cannot ignore the fact that Skoda/VW have indeed recognized this as a potential problem, or else why would they go the extent of issuing an advisory ?

The 2 articles I posted do point to the importance of the right metallurgy. I dis say earlier that the Rapid is capable of speeds in excess of 180 mph so it follows logically that the component design must be specific to the its potential performance. It is another issue as to how many buyers will exploit its full performance, but that is no excuse to put in sub standard components.

We haven't still addressed coletaral damage….
At 120 Kmph, the front wheel is turning at an incredible 1333 RPM or so !!! This amounts to about 22 times per second !! A disc run out of 20 thou + (as was told to me in my case) means that even under very gently braking, the disc is exerting excessive & pulsating pressure 22 times per second on the pads !! While the pads will take the wear & self destruct albeit prematurely, what about the effect of these lateral forces on the CV joints ? The steering components ? The final drive & gear box components ?

I have driven equivalent model VW Group made cars in Germany at continuous speeds in excess of 200 Kmph, and have had some occasion to brake heavily….Even after 7000 Kms, there as no sign of any brake shuddering, now any untoward feel on the steering wheel. One needs to check the metallurgy used in the German spec cars and what is used here. I intend to get down a used disc from Germany & subject it to material specs & then compare it to what we are sold here & confront VW/Skoda with the results in an effort to reach a logical conclusion.

Customers cannot be expected to put up with this gross injustice just because VW wish to turn a profit !!!
shramik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd February 2015, 19:18   #43
Newbie
 
Shreko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Belgaum
Posts: 6
Thanked: 0 Times
Default Re: Skoda's Advisory on the Rapid's brakes

UPDATE :

I was successful in writing an email to Skoda upper management (email chain below) and as per their request i was at the Service Center today. They have asked me to leave the vehicle until tomorrow to diagnose the issue. Lets see what will be the outcome.

__________________________________________________ _____________________

From: Service Unit-2
Sent: 31 January 2015 AM 05:49
To:
Cc:
Subject: RE: Customer Complaint

Dear sir,

With regards to your concern we kindly regret for the inconvenience caused to your good self.
Kindly share your vehicle details ( vehicle number or chassis number) and contact number so we can fix an appointment and inspect the vehicle for the rectification.

Looking forward for your kind cooperation and understanding


Assuring you the best service at all times



Thanks and regards

Customer care executive
Vinayak cars Pvt Ltd

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From:
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 2:19 PM
To: 'Service Unit-2'
Cc:
Subject: FW: Customer Complaint

Hi,

Plz speak to customer, arrange for an appointment and do the needful, do let me know of support required if any.

With Regards,



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 12:34 AM
To: SKIN R: Aurangabad, Skoda India Customer Care; Skoda SKS LMS
Cc:
Subject: Customer Complaint

Dear ŠKODA India Team

Taking cue from many blogs, I thought I may as well write to you about my experience as a Skoda owner so far over the past 5 months. The vehicle as all Skoda's are, a real beauty. So I put about 12 Lacs in and got my 2014 Skoda Rapid delivered in August 14.

I must say the overall sales experience from Vinayak Skoda (Sadashiv Nagar, Bangalore) was excellent. They made me change my mind from almost making a payment for VW Vento to buying the Rapid. I WAS ALSO AWARE OF THE BAD REPUTATION OF SKODA INDIA AFTER SALES., but I chose to ignore the same and trust Skoda by investing my hard earned and lot of money into it.

Since then, I have done about 12,000 KMS, completed the initial check-up at 7,600 KMS. Recently the vehicle started to give shudders when braked (above 90 km/h). I covered a long distant journey (Bangalore - Belgaum : 500 KMS) and the unpleasant shivering of the steering wheel and sound when braked got worse. I had to call the Road Side assistant only to be advised to visit the nearest service station, which was at Hubli, Karnataka. After a brief check and a test drive by the service engineer, it was confirmed there was no issue with the brakes. Now after 15 Days, it has gotten much worse. After browsing through few of the Automotive Forums I realized the issue was very common among Skoda Rapid.

Now, if I visit a Service Centre will there be a warranty on the brakes? I understand the warranty as per the user manual on the brakes is for 6 months and 9000 kms only(correct me if I am wrong). But I have been using many other cars and none of them had this issue, especially after 5 months. If the Brakes(which is the most important part) of such a good and reputed car tends to wear out within 5 months then, it not only makes me believe I made a bad decision by ignoring the BAD REPUTATION OF SKODA INDIA AFTER SALES, but also question the quality of products at SKODA.

I love the car, its excellent. But this issue has really got me thinking if it’s worth the money! When I visit the Service Centre in couple of days I don't expect anything rather than a standard dialogue 'Sorry sir, wear and tear parts are not covered under warranty, and it’s because of your driving style the brakes have worn out'.

With daily city commuting and few highway runs if the brakes are worn out in 5 months then I am unsure what to expect from my investment in the long run.

This issue killed every bit of pleasure that one dreams of from owning and driving a Skoda.

Please excuse if the tone in the message is offensive because I have spent the money and expect its worth!


Thanks,

Last edited by Aditya : 3rd February 2015 at 15:22.
Shreko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2015, 20:05   #44
Newbie
 
Shreko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Belgaum
Posts: 6
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Need help!

I am currently driving a Skoda Rapid 1.6 TDI . My first service is due this week (15K done). Had a brake shuddering issue at around 12k and got it replaced (i believe they changed the rotors, disc and the pads) under goodwill warranty at Vinayak Skoda (Bangalore). Now after driving for about 2000 KMS, i feel the shudders again at high speeds.

I don't wish to go through the same pain again by heading back to the service center, please let me know if i can change my OEM brakes to Brembo brakes. If yes, what would be the costs and will it affect my warranty?

Hello guys, sorry i couldn't log in due to busy work schedule.

Vinayak Skoda after keeping my car for about 3-4 weeks replaced the front discs and pads under goodwill warranty. and for about 2000 KMS after the replacement the car was behaving normal and braking was fine. Now, i feel the shudders are back again at high speeds I seriously don't know what to do First service is due this month (i just completed 15000 KMS).

I don't wish to go through the same pain again by heading back to the service center, Should i change OEM brakes to Brembo brakes? will it help?

Last edited by mobike008 : 30th March 2015 at 22:40. Reason: Merging Posts
Shreko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2015, 09:32   #45
BHPian
 
shramik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 86
Thanked: 79 Times
Default Re: Skoda's Advisory on the Rapid's brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreko View Post
Need help!

I am currently driving a Skoda Rapid 1.6 TDI . My first service is due this week (15K done). Had a brake shuddering issue at around 12k and got it replaced (i believe they changed the rotors, disc and the pads) under goodwill warranty at Vinayak Skoda (Bangalore). Now after driving for about 2000 KMS, i feel the shudders again at high speeds.

I don't wish to go through the same pain again by heading back to the service center, please let me know if i can change my OEM brakes to Brembo brakes. If yes, what would be the costs and will it affect my warranty?

Hello guys, sorry i couldn't log in due to busy work schedule.

Vinayak Skoda after keeping my car for about 3-4 weeks replaced the front discs and pads under goodwill warranty. and for about 2000 KMS after the replacement the car was behaving normal and braking was fine. Now, i feel the shudders are back again at high speeds I seriously don't know what to do First service is due this month (i just completed 15000 KMS).

I don't wish to go through the same pain again by heading back to the service center, Should i change OEM brakes to Brembo brakes? will it help?
It is unheard of that this dealer should keep the car idle for so long & then attempt to show a great "favour" by changing the rotors/pads under "goodwill" warranty, especially since this problem is widely known, and Skoda themselves have issued a service bulletin !!

I beleive a time has come when we should all unite together & send a message to Skoda that this will not do !!

Autocar magazine has a rederessal forum where this issue should be sent, and Skoda themselves should be addressed directly.

I am quite wiling to assist wherever possible.
shramik is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Skoda Rapid(ly) Overhauled - Suspension & Brakes Turbo Head Technical Stuff 65 14th January 2016 23:54
Skoda Advisory - Rapid's Fuel Injection System VeyronSuperSprt Technical Stuff 2 2nd July 2015 10:31
A red hot rapid install in a red hot (Skoda) Rapid Samridh In-Car Entertainment 28 18th August 2013 00:49
Nokia Battery Problem - Product Advisory moralfibre Shifting gears 2 14th August 2007 20:25
Parental Advisory:Explict Content Inside!! shin Motorbikes 7 8th May 2006 15:23


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 17:47.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks