Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


View Poll Results: I have TRIED it and have found that ...
It works wonders for my car/bike. I highly recommend it. 21 36.21%
Slight improvement, but I recommend it. 23 39.66%
No difference at all. Don't bother trying this non-sense stuff. 13 22.41%
It screwed my car!!! Stay away from acetone!!! 1 1.72%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 20th June 2007, 22:22   #331
BHPian
 
NOTORIOUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 783
Thanked: 87 Times
Default

i have added acetone in my honda eterno, the results are clear, scooter feels smooth, acceleration increases but fe decreases a bit . i used to get 43 kmpl from my eterno but now it has come upto 37 kmpl. please help me
NOTORIOUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2007, 22:35   #332
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Madras
Posts: 558
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Hello Notorious, what ratio have you used for mixing acetone on your bike?

A
Absar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th June 2007, 22:47   #333
BHPian
 
NOTORIOUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Delhi
Posts: 783
Thanked: 87 Times
Default

i have used 2.5 ml per liter, is this ok ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Absar View Post
Hello Notorious, what ratio have you used for mixing acetone on your bike?
Thanks for Help
NOTORIOUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2007, 10:11   #334
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Madras
Posts: 558
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

I think the ratio varies from bike to bike and car to car as indicated earlier in this thread. Why don't you try 2 ml/litre of acetone next time and see if there is change in the mileage and let us know? It takes some 2-3 fillups to find out the correct ratio for the bike/car.

A

Last edited by Absar : 21st June 2007 at 10:13.
Absar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2007, 13:35   #335
Senior - BHPian
 
gd1418's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 3,578
Thanked: 655 Times
Default

Hello 17 yr old, 2.5 ml is the upper limit. You start with a lower ratio and then increase or decrease till you find the optimum performance. And the correct FE will settle down after 2 or 3 treatment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS View Post
i have used 2.5 ml per liter, is this ok ???



Thanks for Help
gd1418 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2007, 14:17   #336
BHPian
 
vezj420's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 266
Thanked: 17 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post
Hello 17 yr old, 2.5 ml is the upper limit.
Now, GD, is that any way to encourage the youngster?

Here's an update on my vehicle WITHOUT acetone...

Two days ago, I got sidetracked in the evening and didn't fill up my required quantity of acetone for a half-tank fill-up. In the morning also, it slipped my mind! I HAD to get petrol filled, though, so I thought I might as well see how behavior WITHOUT acetone is....

and as many have said on this thread...the car actually felt SLUGGISH, compared to before! There were a couple of times I actually got scared, thinking something was wrong with the throttle response (or worse, maybe a flat tire) and then I realized that I now have a half-tank of "non-'toned" petrol!

So moral of the story, kids - keep your tank 'toned up, always! and drive safe, the increased throttle response has already gotten me in trouble a couple of times....

PS: 'Tone = Acetone, for those that are wondering about my new slang.
vezj420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2007, 15:03   #337
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: DELHI
Posts: 12
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Maybe it does screw engine in the long term ..
but I wonder if acetone actually screws up the adulteration in the fuel before adulteration screws the engine .

I am using it for last 6 months and to play it safe . I use only 1ml per Litre

excess is always bad and moderation is safe
Ikhanna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2007, 15:41   #338
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,645 Times
Default

Most people experimenting with this say that 1ml/liter is enough, and adding more will not give any appreciable benefit.
Also note that the Acetone addition is cautioned against not because it gives no use, but because of the effects of acetones on various materials.
Fuel passes through various components like filters and fuel lines. 1ml/liter is high dilution, but over a period of 20,000kms or so effects can show if your fuel system has any components which are sensitive to acetone.
For example O-Ring in Tata indica is made of a kind of rubber(Buna-N most probably).
Buna-N O-Rings
Why do they use Buna-N? Because it has high compatibility with Petroleum based products.
So using acetone in Tata indica may lead to premature failure(lets say at 40,000kms instead of 70-80K)
To find out which materials react with acetone here is the list.
Cole-Parmer: Chemical Resistance Database

I understand most of you do not have access to materials used list etc., so I suggest you buy O-ring and a couple of seals commonly found from open market.
Take Pure acetone, and dip the seals in for a few hours.
This is pure acetone, so to have similar effect seen in your car you would need to run it for thousands of kms

My take on all this
1. Acetone can increase mileage. Infact not just acetone but many organic aromatic compounds can increase mileage by either decreasing surface tension or boosting octane rating. I google all this, and to confirm this talked to a friend of mine who is doing Phd in organic chemistry. He says, yes, you can improve octane rating and decrease surface tension etc., and improve the combustability. Not just acetone, they use many exotic compounds, some of which are very expensive. He has not done extensive testing as his expertise is not really in Petroleum, but he knows enough about all the alcohols etc., and acetone and stuff(He is going to be a Phd in few months time)
2. The issue is effect of a compound in fuel.
Here let me explain the chemical thing.
When you mix two liquids which mix you either get a solution, or you can have a chemical reaction, and there are other possibilities too.
Now lets talk about solutions. If you take pure citric acid highly concentrated, it will burn skin and dissolve lot of stuff. If you take it highly diluted it will not have any adverse effects. However if you dip your hand in a dilute solution for extensive period of time you will get a reaction like drying of skin etc., Normally you do not sit with your hands dipped in lemonade, do you? Same is with Sulphuric acid. Concentrated sulphuric acid will burn a hole in your clothes. I have had a shirt ruined by just a few drops of acid. Luckily it was thick otherwise lot else would have been ruined.
But take sulphuric acid highly diluted, it will not have any adverse effect for short periods of time.
Same is with Acetone. You are diluting it to a level of 1/1000 (1ml /liter). So its a very very weak solution. But continuous exposure to this weak solution will have an effect sometime.
So you may have some rubber part failing at 20K or 30K instead of 40K kms. That rubber part may cost just 20rs, in that case the savings and benefits outweigh the cons, but if that damage leads to serious damage, it will be $$$$.

That said, I think the petrol car people are safer using all these contraptions than the diesel car guys. For example any diesel engine can use bio-diesel but it will lead to corrosion of rubber and plastic parts. Therefore the Mercedes Benz Biodiesel test cars use a different material for their plastics.

It is due to this reason that commercial additives in the market come in two varieties, "Street legal" and "Race only".
Street legal ones are which do not have any corrosive effect etc., while race only can shorten lives of some parts. When you are running a race you don't care whether your seals will last 40K or 20K. After a hard race many consumables and small things are anyways replaced, so the motive is winning.
Also note that the amount of damage depends upon the time of contact that the solution has with the material. My biggest worry is whether fuel tanks are painted from inside. Most paints will dissolve in acetone. If you dilute acetone, it will take a longer time, but damage will still be there.
I recommend all long time acetone users to inspect the Fuel filters. If your car has dual filters, like first stage in fuel tank, that will be the one which will catch most of the junk.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2007, 18:52   #339
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Madras
Posts: 558
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Do you mean to pass the message that the use of acetone should be stopped?

Without going through the materials used in one car, how does one know if the parts are prone to failure with acetone?

A
Absar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2007, 19:37   #340
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: DELHI
Posts: 12
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

My message preceded the very informative post by tsk1979 , so maybe my post precipitated the same .

But nevertheless , I agree that the logic is presented is flawless
"consistent exposure even to very mild solution shall cause eventual damage".


Not to mention that acetone sounds to good to be true . If it was so effective , cheap and safe at the same time , I see no reason why the auto companies who spend billions to improve the mileage wouldnt promote it .

What I can say is that after this post I would discontinue the use after the hot season
as I only use it to boost the power as the use of A/C leaves my getz underpowered .

But I sincerely do wish that we could get purer fuel minus the adulteration ( which many people agree is ~ 30% kerosene )
Ikhanna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd June 2007, 22:54   #341
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,645 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Absar View Post
Do you mean to pass the message that the use of acetone should be stopped?

Without going through the materials used in one car, how does one know if the parts are prone to failure with acetone?

A
If you read my post again, you will see that you can purchase seals etc., for cheap from the open market(withing few hundred) dip in acetone for few hours and see the damage.
It is entirely possible that your car does not have anything which is damaged by acetone. My car is a Tata indica, and like most IDI diesels it has a O-ring made from a material which is extremely susceptible to Acetone.
So use of acetone should not be stopped, instead you should know what effect will acetone have on parts.
If all acetone causes is some 50rs part to fail sooner(20,000 instead of 30,000kms) without causing any damage, its worth it, you will save much more than 50rs. But if it causes some bigger problems, then you better watch out.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2007, 10:27   #342
BHPian
 
archat68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 695
Thanked: 200 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
2. The issue is effect of a compound in fuel.
Here let me explain the chemical thing.
When you mix two liquids which mix you either get a solution, or you can have a chemical reaction, and there are other possibilities too.
Chemistry was my subject till my Masters and also I'm earning my bread & butter with the help of it.

Acetone and Petrol does not react.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Now lets talk about solutions. If you take pure citric acid highly concentrated, it will burn skin and dissolve lot of stuff. If you take it highly diluted it will not have any adverse effects. However if you dip your hand in a dilute solution for extensive period of time you will get a reaction like drying of skin etc., Normally you do not sit with your hands dipped in lemonade, do you? Same is with Sulphuric acid. Concentrated sulphuric acid will burn a hole in your clothes. I have had a shirt ruined by just a few drops of acid. Luckily it was thick otherwise lot else would have been ruined.
But take sulphuric acid highly diluted, it will not have any adverse effect for short periods of time.
I beg to differ. Pure Citric acid crystals do not have any effect on the skin except very sensitive facial skins (maybe!!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Same is with Acetone. You are diluting it to a level of 1/1000 (1ml /liter). So its a very very weak solution. But continuous exposure to this weak solution will have an effect sometime.
So you may have some rubber part failing at 20K or 30K instead of 40K kms. That rubber part may cost just 20rs, in that case the savings and benefits outweigh the cons, but if that damage leads to serious damage, it will be $$$$.
100% pure Acetone sure will have its effect on rubber and plastic parts. But 1ml Acetone in 1ltr of Petrol gives you a concentration of around 14ppm (2.5ml in 1ltr is around 35ppm) which is extremely low to have any effect ofn rubber or plastic parts. Btw the fuel we use everyday is far more adulterated and will have more of the adverse effect on engine than this tiny amount of Acetone IMHO.

Regards
__________
Arup
archat68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2007, 16:07   #343
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,645 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by archat68 View Post
Chemistry was my subject till my Masters and also I'm earning my bread & butter with the help of it.

Acetone and Petrol does not react.
Thats what I said. It does not react. I was giving possibilities.


Quote:
I beg to differ. Pure Citric acid crystals do not have any effect on the skin except very sensitive facial skins (maybe!!).
I know people who get rash after sqeezing lime. Sometimes I also feel little itchy. I guess its person to person.


Quote:
100% pure Acetone sure will have its effect on rubber and plastic parts. But 1ml Acetone in 1ltr of Petrol gives you a concentration of around 14ppm (2.5ml in 1ltr is around 35ppm) which is extremely low to have any effect ofn rubber or plastic parts. Btw the fuel we use everyday is far more adulterated and will have more of the adverse effect on engine than this tiny amount of Acetone IMHO.

Regards
__________
Arup
No it will not have effect on all rubber and plastic parts. Only on some Rubbers and plastics. Thats why my friend told me. Acetone is corrosive to "some" rubbers and plastics.
AS for dilution, what you are saying that dipping a susceptible rubber part in such a solution(1ml in 1L) for one year will have no adverse effect? If thats the case, I guess acetone is a safe additive.
What my friend told me that if you dip a acetone sensitive part in a very dilute solution for a long period of time there will be an effect, how long it takes depends on strength. eg. it can be within days or years depending on solution.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2007, 16:38   #344
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Madras
Posts: 558
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Hi! An update from me. I think my decision about acetone is, its not benefitable for me. Last night i topped up the tank and used 2.5 ml/litre ratio with unleaded fuel from a reputed pump. Before refuelling, i checked the pipe by pushing open the metal flap (which the fuel pump nozzle pushes open to fill in fuel) and examined it with a torch to check it after the previous refuel using the syringe where the flap wasnt opened fully. This has lead to a bad thing. I saw few rust areas that looked like its come from the acetone when i injected it last time with the syringe. I was upset.

And then so, this time i had a funnel with me. Unfortunately that also did not work. So i had to inject the acetone again without proper opening of the flap and then i did the refuel myself (not the attendant). I pushed the nozzle slightly past the flap and started a slow flow of fuel to wash off the acetone down the pipe for a few seconds and then i topped up the tank at normal fast rate.

After i went home, i went under the car and inspected the under of it. The fuel pipe at the nozzle hole (where the fuel gets injected into the car) is of metal or plastic and then its rubber all the way till the tank and the most surprising thing i found is, the tank is in the middle of the car like the OHC or the NHC.

Then, this morning i left for a trip on the highway. I do my normal driving, torque is increased yeah, but few more things upset me. Normally, before when i was using Speed fuel, once i cross 140 km/h, petrol smell comes into the cabin until i reduce speed to 130. But this time, instead of petrol smell, it was like rotten egg smell which reminded me of the exhaust pipe, it was so bad that i stuck to 120-130 through out the trip. Mileage isn't improving that's for sure.

After i reached my destination, i saw the muffler tip of my car, it was Black!!!!! Oh my god! I'm like, this acetone ain't good at all. Speed fuel is much better! That gives me much better mileage. And no hassles of worrying about the car's parts. So once i get back to madras, ill drain the tank and fill it up with Speed fuel.

So my opinion is, acetone isn't satisfying me! Bye bye acetone! Speed fuel is best for the ikon me feels! And i don't think ill be trying acetone on any other vehicle!

Btw, should i take the car to Ford to have a check up on it (not diclosing the reason to them) because of the rotten egg smell?

Next week ill be doing another highway trip, but that's for sure with Speed fuel.

I shall update after that on that whether that smell went away.

A
Absar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2007, 18:14   #345
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,645 Times
Default

rotten egg smell means fuel pressure regulator issue or engine overheating.
It could also be a timing issue. Your car has ECU, so checking this up should be easy.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My Experience With adding Boric Acid in Engine oil finetuning Technical Stuff 426 19th November 2015 20:35
My Experience Of Adding Boric Acid In Petrol finetuning Technical Stuff 52 16th July 2013 20:16
My Experience Of Adding Xylene in Petrol finetuning Technical Stuff 61 19th February 2008 03:40
Does adding few ml of Acetone improve FE & performance? finetuning Technical Stuff 7 27th March 2007 20:36


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 01:26.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks