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Old 18th October 2012, 10:53   #1
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Default Diesel PUC: At full throttle?!

Just went today for my Safari PUC certificate to HP Petrol pump near AECS Layout, Bangalore. Guy was doing PUC of one Tata Sumo Grande. I observed some time and the PUC guy was ripping engine of Sumo Grande many times with full throttle.

I asked him, what they are doing? He said, he is measuring temperature and calculating PUC. He had put dirty dipstick in oil chamber and some more sensors he had put. He said, PUC method of Diesel cars has changed and this is new method. Which in my term nothing but brutal method of getting PUC. He had ripped engine with full throttle atleast 12-15 times. I just moved on and I did not want to get the PUC in this manner. Would visit some other petrol pump for getting PUC later in the day.

Is this is same method of measuring PUC across India for Diesel Cars?

Last edited by anujmishra : 18th October 2012 at 11:09.
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Old 18th October 2012, 10:59   #2
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Default re: Diesel PUC: At full throttle?!

This is the way it was done for my Punto also. The only difference with the last test was an SMS with the certificate number and car registration from LM-Alerts, stating that the car has passed emission testing.

If your PUC is outdated, please get a new one, its one of the documents cops check if they are in fundraising mode, this being festive season and all.
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Old 18th October 2012, 11:11   #3
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Default re: Diesel PUC: At full throttle?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
Which in my term nothing but brutal method of getting PUC. He had ripped engine with full throttle atleast 12-15 times.
Is this is same method of measuring PUC across India for Diesel Cars?
Not sure about any other city, but in Bangalore, this is how it is being done.
But, IMO, a full throttle 6 to 8 times would be enough for them to get the reading. Not sure why he was doing it 15 times!

Last edited by GTO : 18th October 2012 at 16:24. Reason: Post on bribing has been deleted
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Old 18th October 2012, 11:31   #4
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Default re: Diesel PUC: At full throttle?!

I am not so sure but what i have been told is they race the engine to bring it to an optimum temperature so as correct readings are taken. When Diesel engines are cold they do not burn fuel properly (and blow a lot of smoke out) and there is a chance of them failing the test.

Not sure if this is true, will be interesting to read what the reality is
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Old 18th October 2012, 11:32   #5
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Default re: Diesel PUC: At full throttle?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
...PUC guy was ripping engine of Sumo Grande many times with full throttle.

...had put dirty dipstick in oil chamber and some more sensors he had put. ...ripped engine with full throttle atleast 12-15 times.
Anuj,
The new method measures the oil temperature; hence the temp sensor into the oil well.

So when the PUC guy sees that the vehicle has not reached the optimum temperature, he just does what he knows best to get the vehicle to that temperature.

One way to avoid this full throttle blast is ensure you temp gauge is midway before you drive in for a PUC test. Just drive around; or choose to get the PUC check done by EOD when you are closer home and when your vehicle has munched a few miles.
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Old 18th October 2012, 11:48   #6
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Default re: Diesel PUC: At full throttle?!

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Originally Posted by Driving_Nomad View Post


Sorry to be nitpicking, but, isn't that 'supposedly' illegal? Don't you think we have a responsibility towards our environment?
Yes, we have responsibility. So we should not rev at full throttle and pollute the environment. If you think you can get meaningful readings, you are not aware of the ground reality that at 99% of the places the equipment is not calibrated and whether you put that thing in tailpipe or not, you get same pre-fixed readings.
Its one big scam.
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Old 18th October 2012, 12:01   #7
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Default re: Diesel PUC: At full throttle?!

Thanks Tanveer.. you just took words out of my mouth. I dont drive >50-60 kmph; fill my car with Mobil every 10K, change Diesel filter, Oil Filter and Air Filter periodically (read 10K). Keep catcon clean and pamper my car a lot. You wont belive, my car has never heard high speed buzzer.. but alas! whenever I went for PUC.. sahab aapka gaadi kaa pollution bahut hi jyaada hai. (read.. sir, the emissions are far beyond permissibles!).

Last edited by GTO : 18th October 2012 at 16:25. Reason: Again, no post on illegal activities or bribing please
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Old 18th October 2012, 12:02   #8
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When they did my diesel Vento's check, the guy connected sensors to the battery terminal, not even the tailpipe. I asked him how can he get the emission reading by connecting to battery, he said there are even advanced ones where they just put a sensor with a magnet over the bonnet and dont have to open it even :(

For petrol vehicles, they did put the sensor into the tailpipe. Also, when he revved the engine, the engine never crossed 2800 rpm

Quote:
Originally Posted by panky12345 View Post
Thanks Tanveer.. you just took words out of my mouth. I dont drive >50-60 kmph; fill my car with Mobil every 10K, change Diesel filter, Oil Filter and Air Filter periodically (read 10K). Keep catcon clean and pamper my car a lot. You wont belive, my car has never heard high speed buzzer.. but alas! whenever I went for PUC.. sahab aapka gaadi kaa pollution bahut hi jyaada hai. (read.. sir, the emissions are far beyond permissibles!).
I hope you have tried to see why the emissions are jyaada? ( OT: How do you quote and Edit your post at the same time?)

Last edited by GTO : 18th October 2012 at 16:26. Reason: Quoted post edited
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Old 18th October 2012, 12:15   #9
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Default re: Diesel PUC: At full throttle?!

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Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
I hope you have tried to see why the emissions are jyaada? ( OT: How do you quote and Edit your post at the same time?)
Oh yes! My car is in excellent condition (mechanically.. touchwood!).. heck even after brief full throttle at idling (while flushing).. I do NOT see any traces of smoke.
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Old 18th October 2012, 12:20   #10
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Default re: Diesel PUC: At full throttle?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
He had ripped engine with full throttle atleast 12-15 times.
Is this is same method of measuring PUC across India for Diesel Cars?
I had got my ikon diesel emission checked last year and similar method was adopted.it was at the Stjohns hospital signal bunk near madiwala. this guy was revving the heck out of my car and yes he revved it 12-15 times.
the report though did mention the emissions at different rpm's.

i have never gone again to that place. i prefer the probe method.maybe older method.but the certificate is what matters to keep the pesky cops at bay!

Last edited by ad75 : 18th October 2012 at 12:22.
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Old 18th October 2012, 12:29   #11
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Default re: Diesel PUC: At full throttle?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
I asked him, what they are doing?
He had put dirty dipstick in oil chamber and some more sensors he had put. He said, PUC method of Diesel cars has changed and this is new method.
Is this is same method of measuring PUC across India for Diesel Cars?
3 parameters get checked:
  1. Emissions from tailpipe (CO, NOx, soot) at a given RPM
  2. Engine - whether at optimum running temp, or cold (via dipstick to measure oil temperature)
  3. RPM - some kind of pulse sensor
Ideally, the emissions are to be checked with the car on rollers, running at 3000 rpm in top gear. What is being done now is free revving up to 3000 rpm and the reading taken 5 times (the operator pushes a button on the handheld controller to record the emission at the given RPM). The machine IS SUPPOSED TO give an average readout (which should be below limits to pass the test).


What they actually do is: Rev to 4000 rpm (that's when you see him 'ripping' the engine), then let the revs climb down with throttle off - and he records the reading at 3000+ rpm to get minimal emissions. No Tata diesel vehicle passes the test (esp. non-DiCOR vehicles) if this technique is not employed. Sometimes the guy misses punching the button when the engine is in the 3000-3200 rpm range, so he's got to do it all over again. To get 5 readings, he might end up revving 10 times or more if he's a newbie.


If you are pally with the guy and are a regular (out here in Delhi, I have to see my chap 8 times a year, i.e. 2 cars needing checks every 3 months), he doesn't bother over-revving and the rigmarole. The numbers can be tweaked from the computer itself. All he does is rev up to 2500-2800 rpm once to visually check for black smoke (sometimes puts in the emissions sensor into the tailpipe if he's feeling energetic), then gives me a certificate (just to protect his own backside - if I were to have heavy tailpipe smoke and a cop caught me round the next corner with a valid PUCC issued 15 minutes ago, his expenses would increase )


Legalities? Will someone look into the legalities of kerosene in my diesel? Will someone look into the legalities of why vehicles of a particular manufacturer refuse to pass simple emission tests despite being certified as BS-IV? Will someone... oh, never mind.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 18th October 2012 at 12:35.
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Old 18th October 2012, 12:44   #12
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Default re: Diesel PUC: At full throttle?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinnerr View Post
One way to avoid this full throttle blast is ensure you temp gauge is midway before you drive in for a PUC test. Just drive around; or choose to get the PUC check done by EOD when you are closer home and when your vehicle has munched a few miles.
Exactly what I wanted to say!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Yes, we have responsibility. So we should not rev at full throttle and pollute the environment.
To do it once in six months and take corrective measures (which is, doing our part to save the environment), IMO, is better than getting a fake PUC certificate and driving around, which, I don't think is the idea of owning one's responsibility and living up to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
If you think you can get meaningful readings, you are not aware of the ground reality that at 99% of the places the equipment is not calibrated and whether you put that thing in tailpipe or not, you get same pre-fixed readings.
Its one big scam.
It is one big scam-yes! But there are test centers which have correctly calibrated equipment. We do it on our '99 TATA Safari every time and the readings are there to see! (The car has a replaced sleeve, synthetic engine oil and filters are cleaned regularly.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by panky12345 View Post
Oh yes! My car is in excellent condition (mechanically.. touchwood!).. heck even after brief full throttle at idling (while flushing).. I do NOT see any traces of smoke.
No offense meant, but why don't you try out other test centers to see if they have correctly calibrated equipments? You will find atleast a handful of them I believe.
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Old 18th October 2012, 12:48   #13
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Default re: Diesel PUC: At full throttle?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Driving_Nomad View Post
To do it once in six months and take corrective measures (which is, doing our part to save the environment), IMO, is better than getting a fake PUC certificate and driving around, which, I don't think is the idea of owning one's responsibility and living up to it.
.
you think its calibrated. But your vehicle is a Euro I vehicle, yet it passes the test? Do you really expect them to have multiple EURO-IV/III/II/I rated calibration machines.
Yes readings are there to see, but then are bogus. Read SSTs post. Emission test is done under load with car on rollers. Till you do that, your PUC test is a sham.
Do let me know when you find a PUC center doing a proper PUC test.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 18th October 2012 at 12:50.
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Old 18th October 2012, 12:59   #14
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Default re: Diesel PUC: At full throttle?!

Went to a new PUC test center near Chembumukku in Kochi last month. He employed the same technique but did not rip the engine. I asked him why are shoving the metal pipe into the dipstick hole instead of exhaust & he replied it is the new norm.

He went on to explain the rules & legal implications, i listened & drove straight into thick black smoke emitted by private buses/lorries of Kochi.
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Old 18th October 2012, 13:04   #15
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Default re: Diesel PUC: At full throttle?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
Just went today for my Safari PUC certificate to HP Petrol pump near AECS Layout, Bangalore. Guy was doing PUC of one Tata Sumo Grande. I observed some time and the PUC guy was ripping engine of Sumo Grande many times with full throttle.

I asked him, what they are doing? He said, he is measuring temperature and calculating PUC. He had put dirty dipstick in oil chamber and some more sensors he had put. He said, PUC method of Diesel cars has changed and this is new method. Which in my term nothing but brutal method of getting PUC. He had ripped engine with full throttle atleast 12-15 times. I just moved on and I did not want to get the PUC in this manner. Would visit some other petrol pump for getting PUC later in the day.

Is this is same method of measuring PUC across India for Diesel Cars?
The equipment is not calibarated , At MATS nr cosmos mall I stopped the PUC test midway when the guy revved near red line, I saw the reading in the equipment is half the RPM what was actually shown in car tacho.

Pointless to argue with these guys , I later got PUC done in Maharashtra without doing test , peace of mind for 6 month.
have to see a new place in Bangalore for the PUC test.

Last edited by Fabiaous : 18th October 2012 at 13:06.
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