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Old 5th July 2013, 16:01   #16
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Default Re: Modern SUVs : Spare wheel placement & interior / mechanical packaging

The old VW Touareg V6 TDI version had an interesting placement for the spare wheel. It has mounted at the back, but it was not bolted on to the tailgate. Instead, the spare wheel was mounted on a separate member attached to the chassis. If you wanted to open the tailgate, you had to swivel the member carrying the spare wheel and open the tailgate upwards.

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Old 5th July 2013, 17:27   #17
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Default Re: Modern SUVs : Spare wheel placement & interior / mechanical packaging

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
The old VW Touareg V6 TDI version had an interesting placement for the spare wheel. It has mounted at the back, but it was not bolted on to the tailgate. Instead, the spare wheel was mounted on a separate member attached to the chassis. If you wanted to open the tailgate, you had to swivel the member carrying the spare wheel and open the tailgate upwards.

Attachment 1106168

Attachment 1106169
It was almost this way in the outgoing Safari design too. We can say the safari did a better job of "hiding" that additional arm than VW
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Old 6th July 2013, 00:50   #18
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Default Re: Why I love the sub 4 metre SUVs

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Originally Posted by smartcat View Post
Regarding my new "question 3", I'm adding pictures of Xylo and Scopio - the relative bonnet size difference is much clearer with these two cars. How did Mahindra magically fit in the mHawk/mEagle engine into the (visually) tiny engine bay of the Xylo? Why does the same engine need a larger engine bay/bonnet in the Scorpio?

Attachment 1003782

Attachment 1003783
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain.torque View Post
Xylo being an MUV has a transversely mounted engine or in simple words the engine is placed horizontally to accommodate more interior space whereas in SUV's a long bonnet adds to the macho look and is a must so the engine is placed longitudinally or vertically.

Please correct me if I am wrong friends.
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Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
Absolutely right. That horizontally mounted engine is the primary contributor to a car (MPV) with same total length having a significantly larger cabin space compared to an SUV. In other words, known as a "cab forward" design.
Guys, the Xylo is a RWD vehicle with a longitudinally mounted drivetrain. It is NOT a FWD. The XUV is the one with the car-like FWD and the transverse drivetrain. Same case with the Innova and the Fortuner, both are FR (Front engine, Rear drive) layout.

Quite simply, it is all about looks. An SUV is meant to look tough and capable, so it is designed with a longer bonnet (ie a longer crash section) and a body that accommodates fewer people in more luxury. An MUV is designed from the get-go to be more spacious at the expense of aesthetics. Hence, the short bonnet (to aid in traffic driving) and the longer cabin (more space).

Also, If you look the engine bay of a Xylo, you'll notice that it looks closely packed, while the bay in a Scorpio looks rather airy. The original Scorpio was designed for a 2.6L old-school, simple DI diesel engine (NEF2600 I think), and only got the smaller 2.2L mHawk engine later in life. The Xylo which came after the Scorpio was designed for smaller engines, so they could make do with a smaller engine bay and add that space to the cabin.

But then, the original Safari came with a 2L engine and had a huge engine bay, so the best bet would be that SUVs have longer bonnets so they can look a lot bigger and proportionate. MUVs don't have to deal with that. Sportier vehicles have always traded utility for aesthetics.

As for the spare wheel placement, I think the best combination would be a rear mounted spare wheel that cold swing down to ground level when needed. Why hasn't anyone thought of that? Swing the wheel down, change tyres and swing it back up. If designed correctly, it could even be a step to get into the back.

Last edited by vivekgk : 6th July 2013 at 00:54.
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Old 6th July 2013, 01:59   #19
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Default Re: Why I love the sub 4 metre SUVs

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Originally Posted by vivekgk View Post
Guys, the Xylo is a RWD vehicle with a longitudinally mounted drivetrain. It is NOT a FWD. The XUV is the one with the car-like FWD and the transverse drivetrain. Same case with the Innova and the Fortuner, both are FR (Front engine, Rear drive) layout.

Quite simply, it is all about looks. An SUV is meant to look tough and capable, so it is designed with a longer bonnet (ie a longer crash section) and a body that accommodates fewer people in more luxury. An MUV is designed from the get-go to be more spacious at the expense of aesthetics. Hence, the short bonnet (to aid in traffic driving) and the longer cabin (more space).

Also, If you look the engine bay of a Xylo, you'll notice that it looks closely packed, while the bay in a Scorpio looks rather airy. The original Scorpio was designed for a 2.6L old-school, simple DI diesel engine (NEF2600 I think), and only got the smaller 2.2L mHawk engine later in life. The Xylo which came after the Scorpio was designed for smaller engines, so they could make do with a smaller engine bay and add that space to the cabin.

But then, the original Safari came with a 2L engine and had a huge engine bay, so the best bet would be that SUVs have longer bonnets so they can look a lot bigger and proportionate. MUVs don't have to deal with that. Sportier vehicles have always traded utility for aesthetics.

As for the spare wheel placement, I think the best combination would be a rear mounted spare wheel that cold swing down to ground level when needed. Why hasn't anyone thought of that? Swing the wheel down, change tyres and swing it back up. If designed correctly, it could even be a step to get into the back.
Thanks a lot for the information. I am better informed now
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Old 6th July 2013, 03:22   #20
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Default Re: Modern SUVs : Spare wheel placement & interior / mechanical packaging

I have a question.

I've been trying to get a close look at the Bolero's front end and I've noticed that the front wheels are at the extreme corners. There is almost no front overhang to speak of. Does this mean that the engine is mounted behind the front axle?
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Old 6th July 2013, 13:53   #21
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One important point I see not mentioned is reduced air drag hence better fuel efficiency.
I've been through two Gypsies and loved the rear mount, but took great care or the hinges and setting. Very often the wire cable broke if the door swung open. I knew/ saw a lot of cases where the hinges and the bracket broke. Now have the XUV the tail gate swings up.
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Old 16th August 2013, 08:15   #22
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Default Re: Modern SUVs : Spare wheel placement & interior / mechanical packaging

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
I have a question.

I've been trying to get a close look at the Bolero's front end and I've noticed that the front wheels are at the extreme corners. There is almost no front overhang to speak of. Does this mean that the engine is mounted behind the front axle?
That's right, most of the engine is mounted behind the axle. The wheels are placed as far ahead as possible so as to improve the angle of approach, enabling it to climb taller obstacles. The Bolero is based on the Jeep, after all. The original jeep also had extremely short rear overhang to improve the angle of departure, so that the rear doesn't hit the ground on steep inclines.
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Old 16th August 2013, 09:11   #23
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Default Re: Modern SUVs : Spare wheel placement & interior / mechanical packaging

The only slightly modern day vehicles that I have owned which have had the tail gate moutned spare have been the Gypsy and the Bolero.
The Gypsy is an inherently rattly beast so I never minded the extra occasional rattles that came because of the spare.
Over time, the bolts would tend to loosen and the whole hard top itself would rattle.
Having said that, the vehicle was a tough, go anywhere vehicle and typical of its DNA, pretty crude in nature.


The Bolero had a really heavy spare tyre and I increased that by changing my wheels to heavy Aura Alloy wheels - these were made by Hindalco group and compared with most alloys I think they were heavier to some extent. Yes if at all one wished to remove and re mount the spare, it was a herculean task on account of its weight. In my three odd years of Bolero ownership I never had a single puncture and hence never had to actually take the spare off except when I was performing the wheel rotation, tyre balancing and alignment activity, once in every 5K - 10K Kms and even then the service blokes actually did all the grunt work, so it did not matter.

With the Scorpio it was quite easy and I liked the concept of the mounting beneath the floor of the vehicle. The only thing was that in the rainy season the poor spare, for no fault of its own, used to get just as filthy as the rest of the vehicle!

SUV's do look good, purposeful and tough, when they have these tailgate mounted spares. Part of the macho appeal comes from this.




Quote:
Originally Posted by nilanjanray View Post
Wouldn't the door a mounted wheel also increase the centre of gravity a little bit? Making it a tiny bit more unsafe for tall vehicles?

I love the rear mounted wheel look though. The Fortuner would have looked awesome with that look :-)
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