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Old 13th November 2012, 20:48   #16
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta 1.5L Duratorq Engine - Based on European 1.6L TDCi or the old 1.4 mil

^^^
That's interesting. Are the blocks (1.4 and 1.6) essentially identical?

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Old 14th November 2012, 17:06   #17
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta 1.5L Duratorq Engine - Based on European 1.6L TDCi or the old 1.4 mil

I would say no! Having totally new technology, the 1.6 would sure have a block different from the 1.4.
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Old 14th November 2012, 17:59   #18
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta 1.5L Duratorq Engine - Based on European 1.6L TDCi or the old 1.4 mil

As far as I recall, the essential block design stays the same between the 1.4 & 1.6; both are made out of light weight aluminium, have siamese cylinders & use cast iron liners. There would be differences though, in the oil passages & water jackets & that too, mostly in the sizes.

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Originally Posted by vvijay View Post
I would say no! Having totally new technology, the 1.6 would sure have a block different from the 1.4.

Last edited by blackfire_9 : 14th November 2012 at 18:07.
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Old 15th November 2012, 02:08   #19
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta 1.5L Duratorq Engine - Based on European 1.6L TDCi or the old 1.4 mil

Downsizing 1.6 -> 1.5 for IDM is only for excise benefit. Honda will be doing the same for the Amaze
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Old 15th November 2012, 23:42   #20
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta 1.5L Duratorq Engine - Based on European 1.6L TDCi or the old 1.4 mil

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
As far as I recall, the essential block design stays the same between the 1.4 & 1.6;
Of course, what I meant was while the basic block design remains the same, they do differ in some of the other aspects
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Old 17th November 2012, 20:29   #21
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta 1.5L Duratorq Engine - Based on European 1.6L TDCi or the old 1.4 mil

^^^
So the 1.4, the 1.5 and the 1.6 are essentially the same engine family! Variants if you will.

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Old 17th November 2012, 21:11   #22
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta 1.5L Duratorq Engine - Based on European 1.6L TDCi or the old 1.4 mil

Yep, they are & the eldest in them is the 1.4, which was followed by the 1.6 & the latest iteration being the 1.5 available in India.

Also, the Ford-PSA engines were always aimed at eco-friendliness & that's why they are so light & have lightweight components.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
^^^
So the 1.4, the 1.5 and the 1.6 are essentially the same engine family! Variants if you will.

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Old 17th November 2012, 21:18   #23
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta 1.5L Duratorq Engine - Based on European 1.6L TDCi or the old 1.4 mil

^^^
Logically, between the 1.4 and 1.5 the stroke, rather than the bore, should differ. Anyone got the values.

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Old 17th November 2012, 22:11   #24
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta 1.5L Duratorq Engine - Based on European 1.6L TDCi or the old 1.4 mil

You see, like I said the 1.5 is derived from the 1.6. So am sure 1.4 and 1.5 will have different blocks with different bore and stroke lengths. Between 1.6 and 1.5, I believe the bore will remain the same and the stroke length would have been reduced. Thats how downsizing is ususally done.
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Old 18th November 2012, 17:28   #25
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta 1.5L Duratorq Engine - Based on European 1.6L TDCi or the old 1.4 mil

1.4 TDCi :
Bore = 73.7mm
Stroke = 82mm

1.5 TDCi:
Bore = 73.7mm
Stroke = 88.3mm

1.6 TDCi:
Bore = 75mm
Stroke = 88.3mm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
^^^
Logically, between the 1.4 and 1.5 the stroke, rather than the bore, should differ. Anyone got the values.

Regards
Sutripta
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvijay View Post
You see, like I said the 1.5 is derived from the 1.6. So am sure 1.4 and 1.5 will have different blocks with different bore and stroke lengths. Between 1.6 and 1.5, I believe the bore will remain the same and the stroke length would have been reduced. Thats how downsizing is ususally done.
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Old 18th November 2012, 22:06   #26
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta 1.5L Duratorq Engine - Based on European 1.6L TDCi or the old 1.4 mil

From the bore size it is apparent that the 1.5L TDCi engine is an upsized 1.4 rather than a downsized 1.6.
Does this mean that Ford can use the same cylinder heads, pistons, crank shaft etc. for the 1.5 and 1.4?
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Old 19th November 2012, 19:45   #27
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta 1.5L Duratorq Engine - Based on European 1.6L TDCi or the old 1.4 mil

Hey buddy,

Could you please elaborate on the reasons as to why the 1.5L should be an upsized version of the 1.4L, looking at the bore & stroke measurements?

Also, the heads are not the same between the 1.5 & 1.4, neither are the crankshafts. The only similarities between the 3 different versions of this family are the basic design principles & the differences lie in the finer details like the size of water jackets, oil pump ratings, valve sizes etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssenhyd View Post
From the bore size it is apparent that the 1.5L TDCi engine is an upsized 1.4 rather than a downsized 1.6.
Does this mean that Ford can use the same cylinder heads, pistons, crank shaft etc. for the 1.5 and 1.4?

Last edited by blackfire_9 : 19th November 2012 at 19:52.
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Old 19th November 2012, 20:05   #28
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta 1.5L Duratorq Engine - Based on European 1.6L TDCi or the old 1.4 mil

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
1.5 TDCi:
Bore = 73.7mm
Stroke = 88.3mm
These measurements take it a shade above 1500cc. A bit of googling shows that bore should be 73.5 mm.

How does the head differ between the 1.4 and 1.5?
The 1.5 will need a slightly larger dead volume compared to the 1.4. Is it handled in the head or the piston?

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Old 21st November 2012, 14:01   #29
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta 1.5L Duratorq Engine - Based on European 1.6L TDCi or the old 1.4 mil

The reason I had asked the question whether the cylinder head, pistons etc. of the 1.5 & 1.4 are interchangeable was to confirm whether this was a strategy employed by Ford just to reduce their manufacturing costs.

Are they trying to basically pass on an up-sized engine (up-sized from 1.4L to 1.5L) with interchangeable parts etc. for the Indian market for the new Fiesta?

For some reason (and this might not be true) I have a feeling that most major international auto manufactures launch an inferior product (for the price range it is targeted at) when they launch a car in India compared to their same car launched in say ASEAN another developing economy market.

For example, the Toyota Fortuner which is one of the favorites among prospective SUV purchasers has a 3.0L engine in just 4 cylinders! Generally one would expect six cylinders for a more balanced power delivery in this volume range. The interior of the Fortuner is as spartan as a Rs 10L car and not fit for a product whose OTR price is 27L (in Hyderabad). This model is an outdated model that was launched in Thailand several years back.

The same can be said for the Honda City too. It is/was considerably over priced for the interior it was offering. The City is considerably cheaper in Thailand compared to India

I have read several threads on Team-BHP where people have discovered rusted iron parts in their Ford Fiesta just after purchase. Similar poor quality would not be accepted by consumers in the western auto markets and would lead to very adverse publicity.

Ford Fiesta is sold in the European markets too, and my guess is that such rusted parts would be very rare there. The engine in the European market is also different and more refined than the one in India. How come an auto manufacturer (Ford) who can build a top notch product in Europe turn out a product with quality issues and an inferior engine in India? Is it because they can? They know that the consumers here cannot sue and would lap up whatever they offer?

Is the 1.5L in the engine in the Fiesta only to reduce the excise duty and keep the cost of the car down? Then how come VW and Hyundai have launched a car in the same price range with a more refined 1.6L engine?

I am not trying to be a troll or be provocative, but I do feel a bit disappointed with the approach taken by a few global auto brands for their products launched in India.

The reason for this post is to get enlightened on this issue and look forward to your thoughts on this.
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Old 21st November 2012, 21:12   #30
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Default Re: Ford Fiesta 1.5L Duratorq Engine - Based on European 1.6L TDCi or the old 1.4 mil

Hi,
There is merit in
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssenhyd View Post
Is the 1.5L in the engine in the Fiesta only to reduce the excise duty and keep the cost of the car down? Then how come VW and Hyundai have launched a car in the same price range with a more refined 1.6L engine?
but otherwise I fully agree with Ford's approach. Eminently sensible. Though one can say playing (too) safe. Anything else, and I would arch my eyebrows!

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