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Old 27th November 2012, 19:31   #46
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Default Re: Ford Figo's dangerous behaviour : Steering locks on the move!

Ascertain, I had the stalling problem more than a year ago but it was fixed after the ECU firmware upgrade.

Also a small clarification. Whenever I faced the stalling issue, the steering would not lock. This was because the key was still on ACC position. I know this because I steered to side with the engine off the first time. The later times was easy, when it stalled just release the clutch.
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Old 27th November 2012, 19:54   #47
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Default Re: Ford Figo's dangerous behaviour : Steering locks on the move!

Such a sorry state of affairs.
India really needs better consumer protection.

Sadly, I have to say, drive slowly and safely until this is resolved - I know it's impossible on our roads :-(
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Old 27th November 2012, 21:38   #48
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Default update-6

Got a call from ford customer care- here's how it went

(CC) & I

CC: Sir , good evening, I am calling from Ford Customer Care. This is regarding the problem with your vehicle that you had registered. I hope your issue was resolved by the service center?

I: Thank you for calling, but I must say emphatically that there was no new work done on my vehicle by Ford service, and till now I don't know what is wrong with the car, as I have not been able to elicit a diagnosis from the technical side of Ford.

CC: Sir, In case the problem recurs, please bring your vehicle to the ford service center.

I: That I definitely will. But please take down this conversation for future reference, as I am not satisfied with the way things are going.

CC: Yes Sir

I: Yes, thank you- I want it recorded and documented that I have approached Ford Service and not got a probable diagnosis for the car's issues. I would also like to point out that it is not me alone who has been having problems with the Figo. There are many other owners who have had similar issues, and have had their cars taken to the service centers, for a variety of 'treatments' administered. Till now, I don't think any of the service engineers in any of the centers have been instructed about this problem nor the proper protocols to rectify it. I have also found that no complaints of this nature have been seriously forwarded to Ford India nor followed up.
I would ask you to refer to the previous mails I had sent you on this issue, and also follow those links to the automotive forums where owners have documented their experiences. Kindly take it up with your technical team, and help us out.
The issue is that, my experiences have till now been in relatively uncrowded areas-but imagine if any one of the Ford Figo family had a similar experience in a crowded junction, or a hill slope- I can't even begin to understand why this issue is not being considered serious enough for a company of Ford's stature.
Till date, no recognition has come from ford India about the issue, nor has any kind of information been given to Figo owners even to as simple an action as bringing in their for a checkup or update of software- if indeed that IS the issue. As a result we have a plethora of individuals who are clueless about the nature of this problem, and oblivious to the fact that they are putting themselves at risk each time they travel.
in case of an accident- whom do I approach?- no One will take responsibility. If it is due to the issue of steering locking and unresponsive engine- after the accident if I approach and mail Ford India- will it be taken seriously? - obviously no- because It would be attributed to other reasons.
It is with this concern that I have raised the issue as a GCR, and which needs to be bought to the attention of higher ups.
I would also like to know if you are indeed calling with regard to the GCR filed by Cauvery Ford?

CC: Sir that is an internal issue, I cannot comment on it.

I: OK, but can you at least confirm that a GCR has been raised by Cauvery Ford on my request?

CC: Yes Sir definitively the issue has been taken up.

I: It is therefore keeping these things in mind- that I request you to document this conversation for your records. I definitely will, and will mail you a copy of it as well.Please see to it that it is forwarded to all parties concerned, and help me find out what exactly is wrong with the vehicle.

CC: I will definitely forward the issue to our technical department sir, and revert.

I: Thank you very much.
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Old 28th November 2012, 11:43   #49
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Default Re: Ford Figo's dangerous behaviour : Steering locks on the move!

Thanks for the updates ascertain. May I suggest you write to Ford directly? I hear they revert quite promptly. From google, these are the details on their website:

custmail@ford.com
18004252500 Or 044 - 60002500

Regional Office - South
Ford India Pvt. Ltd.
Block - 1B, 1st Floor
RMZ Millenia Business Park
143, Dr MGR Road,
North Veeranam Salai,
Perungudi, Chennai - 600096
Phone : 91-44-24551500
Fax : 91-44-24559965
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Old 28th November 2012, 13:00   #50
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Default Re: Ford Figo's dangerous behaviour : Steering locks on the move!

There are a few things that i need to clarify.
  1. Did they change the key barrel / ignition switch on your car?
  2. AFAIK the version V X.XX is the version of the software installed on the computer. The ECU map versions are GB, GC, GD etc. GB came on the initial few cars, then some batches came with GC and the update with the claimed correction for the stalling issue came in the GD version. I dont know about further updates.
  3. You are entitled to get details of work done on your car in the form of Job Cards created each time your vehicle is taken into the service center. No workshop can deny you these documents.
  4. Next time it occurs be prepared to take a video of the behavior. Capture details like the steering not turning, the status of the warning lights and the tacho readings with accelerator depression to prove that the engine is still running. All this provided you are able to park safely.
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Old 28th November 2012, 19:03   #51
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Arrow Re: Ford Figo's dangerous behaviour : Steering locks on the move!

@gtonsing : yes I have already mailed ford India via customer care at the email you have provided. The channel is now open- and I am hopefully following the correct protocol in reporting the incident, and am ensuring that all facts are documented well.

@Gemi: Yes gemi- I shall take a video of the incident next time (I sincerely hope there is no next time )

Will keep you all updated
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Old 28th November 2012, 19:06   #52
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Arrow Re: Ford Figo's dangerous behaviour : Steering locks on the move!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
There are a few things that i need to clarify.
  1. Did they change the key barrel / ignition switch on your car?
  2. AFAIK the version V X.XX is the version of the software installed on the computer. The ECU map versions are GB, GC, GD etc. GB came on the initial few cars, then some batches came with GC and the update with the claimed correction for the stalling issue came in the GD version. I dont know about further updates.
  3. You are entitled to get details of work done on your car in the form of Job Cards created each time your vehicle is taken into the service center. No workshop can deny you these documents.
  4. Next time it occurs be prepared to take a video of the behavior. Capture details like the steering not turning, the status of the warning lights and the tacho readings with accelerator depression to prove that the engine is still running. All this provided you are able to park safely.
No gemi- they have not changed the key barrel or ignition switch - they have only sprayed the anti rust solution.

No updation of ECU software was done- as told to me by the service engineer himself.

I shall scan and upload a copy of the job card issued to me for the present visit.
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Old 1st December 2012, 18:28   #53
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Arrow Update-7

I received a reply from Ford CC: here's how it goes.


Dear Dr. Indrajit Suresh,

Thank you for contacting Ford India,

At the outset, we deeply regret for the inconvenience caused to you. We sincerely value your patronage for Ford India and appreciate the time you have taken to write to us.

Further to the telecom we had with your good self, We once again wish to clarify you that we had reviewed your concern diligently with our dealership along with our regional service team.

We understand that your vehicle had reported for the engine stalling issue on 24/11/2012 at 9374 kms post detailed diagnosis our dealership had confirmed us that the concern could not be reproduced / replicated when the dealer carried out a road test and checked the related parameters. As the issue could not be reproduce / replicated it could be due to various reasons such as driving habits, fuel quality etc. However as a pro-active measure we have updated the software of your car PCM (Power train control module.), post this exercise our dealership once again performed an extensive road test and confirmed us that the concern could not be reproduced. Hence we request you to drive vehicle with complete confidence on the product, we are confident that the feedback would be positive.
Request your understanding & co-operation in this.
Please feel free to contact Mr. Ragavendra- 9880599606 Service Manager from our Dealership/us for any further assistance .
Assuring you of our best services and continuous support at all times.

Thanks & Regards,

M Sudalai



So In short- what I can make out from this is-

Pro Active management means re-installing the same piece of software in the ECU, and wish the problem to go away, and make the customer shut up- trusting in his ignorance. Wonder What Ford India thinks it's customer's IQ levels are!
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Old 3rd December 2012, 10:32   #54
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Default Re: Ford Figo's dangerous behaviour : Steering locks on the move!

Basically, Ford is saying, problem cannot be replicated and therefore there is no problem. What a long email to say nothing at all. They must have a really good english composer to draft their emails to say a lot of things without saying anything.
Have they not taken into consideration that there are others who have faced the same issue? I would have expected Ford to do a random check on other service centers and seen if this is a common issue or not.
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Old 3rd December 2012, 11:49   #55
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Default Re: Update-7

Quote:
Originally Posted by ascertain View Post
So In short- what I can make out from this is-

Pro Active management means re-installing the same piece of software in the ECU, and wish the problem to go away, and make the customer shut up- trusting in his ignorance. Wonder What Ford India thinks it's customer's IQ levels are!
In other words, it's somewhat like reloading Windows OS when your computer starts going erratic. Well, works for Windows most of the time. Might work for Figo too!
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Old 4th December 2012, 00:51   #56
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Default Re: Update-7

Hey buddy,

First & foremost, pardon my ignorance (if that's the case), but did your car ever even face the engine stalling issue? I thought you had only reported the issue of the steering getting locked even with the engine running.

Secondly, if it was actually a case of engine stalling, then ask them to present to you a list of all possible reasons. In the reply you have received from Ford, the only reasons I could see were driving habits & fuel quality; what about other factors? Ask them to give you a list, especially with regards to the technical aspects of the car.
For the fuel part, ask them for the recommended pumps in your city & in your vicinity, or quite simply, look for a COCO (Company Owned & Company Operated).
For the driving habits, tell them that had it been your driving habits, the issue wouldn't have happened after almost 10K kms & moreover, it would have recurred again (with an increased frequency). This is not the case.

Lastly, if the issue cannot be replicated, there's actually hardly anything that even an honest dealership/workshop can do, but then make sure that your case is documented & kept "Open" for a little longer. If it can't be kept open, then get a tracking number of some sort (basically, a unique ID) that can be used in future, if required (God forbid!)

Drive safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ascertain View Post
I received a reply from Ford CC: here's how it goes.


Dear Dr. Indrajit Suresh,

.........

We understand that your vehicle had reported for the engine stalling issue on 24/11/2012 at 9374 kms post detailed diagnosis our dealership had confirmed us
.......................

Last edited by blackfire_9 : 4th December 2012 at 00:52.
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Old 4th December 2012, 22:04   #57
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Default

I think blackfire_9 is right. You should write back to Ford emphasising that your issue and the engine stalling issue are two different issues.
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Old 4th December 2012, 23:33   #58
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Arrow Height of absurd denial

I'm beginning to feel that Ford is now putting up an 'ignorance wall' up in front of me- This must be my 5th mail to them, and look at the reply.


Subject: Concern No. 800028423:Issues with vehicle bearing CHASSIS NO. MAJ1XXMRJ1BU07016/ ENGINE NO. BU07016

In pursuance to your email to me earlier- I wish to inform you that the PCM software was NOT updated- it was merely erased and RE-INSTALLED. This was confirmed to me by the very same Mr.Raghavendra. (Service Engineer at Cauvery Ford-Mysore).

I understand the multitude of possibilities that you have mentioned i.e Style of Driving and Fuel Quality etc. But in this regard I again have a few queries.

1) If the issue was (as suggested by you) due to fuel quality issues- why should it occur only on one day and not on the next when already on a full tank?

2) Driving style- I have ample confidence in stating that my driving style approximates the average Indian's driving style, and even within the city- it is not possible to cross the speed limits in force. Your service engineer has also done test runs using a similar driving method, yet there was no issue. i have clearly mentioned the engine revs (rpm) which were present during the episodes. kindly go through those figures once again, and let me know if there was anything that could have been corrected.

3) Finally I come to the issue of 'Pro Active' measures taken - I had asked you very specifically if the PCM software was 'buggy' , and whether it could have caused the problem I encountered- to this end I have not received any concrete answer from your side. A simple "Yes/No" answer would suffice. Kindly consult your technical department and mail me the facts.

I would also like to ask you if I should take my 'Brother-in-laws car (also a Ford Figo - bought on my recommendation) , which has thankfully not had the problem till date - but instead of waiting for anything to crop up - should I get its PCM updated also?. If you advise it- i shall sincerely follow your suggestion.

Yours Truly

Dr.Indrajit Suresh
Ph: 9341077894



Now here is the Reply I got.



Dear Dr.Indrajit Suresh

This is in continuation to our earlier correspondences and telecom discussion we had with your good self regarding your vehicle bearing registration number KA55M3586

We sincerely hope we had provided necessary clarifications related to the concerns you had raised with us vide our reply dated 29.12.2012.

We also understand that our dealership has provided necessary clarifications / assistance to you regarding the concerns you had raised with us . We kindly request you to contact our dealership for any further clarifications required if any. We had instructed our dealership to provide the necessary assistance to you.

Please feel free to contact Mr.Ragavendra- 9880599606 Service Manager from our dealership /us for any further assistance.

Thanks & Regards,

M Sudalai
FIL-Customer Relations
Toll Free No 1800-425-2500 BSNL/MTNL 6000-2500 Add STD code of your state capital


Now dear members- tell me- what can one make out from this?- standard format email to all customers- and no respect for their time or efforts.

But rest assured- i have promised Ford India that I will keep mailing them till I get answers.
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Old 5th December 2012, 00:12   #59
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Default Re: Height of absurd denial

The first & foremost thing you should do is post this entire conversation up on their official FB page. There are numerous pages dedicated to the Ford Figo & thus, I am unsure of the one that's maintained by Ford India but other members here should be able to give you the links.
Moreover, because at the current stage the issue is not being replicated, what you can do is to get reasonable answers to your queries but that's not happening (due to Ford's ignorance).

Secondly, try to find the email addresses of someone with authority & directly working with Ford, so that you can mark this email to them as well & request for some answers to your queries.

Lastly, attach this email & write another email to the concerned people at the dealership (with the customer care marked in cc) & politely ask them to revert back with definite & detailed answers to your queries. Send them a reminder or two if you do not get a reply. Also, please make sure that they give you the answers in writing (via email).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ascertain View Post
I'm beginning to feel that Ford is now putting up an 'ignorance wall' up in front of me- This must be my 5th mail to them, and look at the reply.


Subject: Concern No. 800028423:Issues with vehicle bearing CHASSIS NO. MAJ1XXMRJ1BU07016/ ENGINE NO. BU07016

In pursuance to your email to me earlier- I wish to inform you that the PCM software was NOT updated- it was merely erased and RE-INSTALLED. This was confirmed to me by the very same Mr.Raghavendra. (Service Engineer at Cauvery Ford-Mysore).

I understand the multitude of possibilities that you have mentioned i.e Style of Driving and Fuel Quality etc. But in this regard I again have a few queries.

1) If the issue was (as suggested by you) due to fuel quality issues- why should it occur only on one day and not on the next when already on a full tank?

2) Driving style- I have ample confidence in stating that my driving style approximates the average Indian's driving style, and even within the city- it is not possible to cross the speed limits in force. Your service engineer has also done test runs using a similar driving method, yet there was no issue. i have clearly mentioned the engine revs (rpm) which were present during the episodes. kindly go through those figures once again, and let me know if there was anything that could have been corrected.

3) Finally I come to the issue of 'Pro Active' measures taken - I had asked you very specifically if the PCM software was 'buggy' , and whether it could have caused the problem I encountered- to this end I have not received any concrete answer from your side. A simple "Yes/No" answer would suffice. Kindly consult your technical department and mail me the facts.

I would also like to ask you if I should take my 'Brother-in-laws car (also a Ford Figo - bought on my recommendation) , which has thankfully not had the problem till date - but instead of waiting for anything to crop up - should I get its PCM updated also?. If you advise it- i shall sincerely follow your suggestion.

Yours Truly

Dr.Indrajit Suresh
Ph: 9341077894



Now here is the Reply I got.



Dear Dr.Indrajit Suresh

This is in continuation to our earlier correspondences and telecom discussion we had with your good self regarding your vehicle bearing registration number KA55M3586

We sincerely hope we had provided necessary clarifications related to the concerns you had raised with us vide our reply dated 29.12.2012.

We also understand that our dealership has provided necessary clarifications / assistance to you regarding the concerns you had raised with us . We kindly request you to contact our dealership for any further clarifications required if any. We had instructed our dealership to provide the necessary assistance to you.

Please feel free to contact Mr.Ragavendra- 9880599606 Service Manager from our dealership /us for any further assistance.

Thanks & Regards,

M Sudalai
FIL-Customer Relations
Toll Free No 1800-425-2500 BSNL/MTNL 6000-2500 Add STD code of your state capital


Now dear members- tell me- what can one make out from this?- standard format email to all customers- and no respect for their time or efforts.

But rest assured- i have promised Ford India that I will keep mailing them till I get answers.
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Old 5th December 2012, 09:25   #60
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Default Re: Height of absurd denial

Quote:
Originally Posted by ascertain View Post
This must be my 5th mail to them, and look at the reply.
And still, you have not countered Ford's claim of engine getting stalled? As members have already mentioned, it is important to correct them because there is a known issue of engine stalling and Ford may be relating this steering lock incident to that.

Or are going back on your words?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ascertain View Post
I will repeat once again that the engine did not turn off. The first time I could have missed it in the panic- but the next two times, I was sure. Only after turning off the engine and restarting the car- did I regain control of the steering.
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