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Old 29th January 2010, 16:02   #1201
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Nokia Map Loader

Another piece of sub-ms Nokia programming rubbish. Want to add a country/region to your phone? Fine... but it deletes those you have already, so you have to get them again. What idiot could possibly have come up with that.

There is an easier way. symbian underground has links to all the Nokia map sets. Download them and unzip them into the Nokia CITIES file-system hierarchy. Now why couldn't Nokia have thought of that? Possibly, because it doesn't even need Windows, let alone that awful .NET framework nonsense.

I just added Singapore to my phone, which already has maps for India and UK. According to the site, the whole world only needs 4Gb.
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Old 29th January 2010, 16:11   #1202
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Hi,

I saw the other posts only after posting this. Still:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
Thanks Ruchir,
I am asking purely about the GPS facility.
As of now, the GPS part is free to be used in any phone with built in GPS receiver or one which connects to an external Bluetooth GPS receiver.

Recently, Nokia has made its map application and the maps free to download and use. Even voice navigation is free now with Nokia. Once the map is downloaded, you don't need GPRS to connect to the internet for the navigation to be used.

MMI and Satguide have all the map data stored locally and never needed GPRS to work.

Right now Google Maps with its navigation (only text and not voice as of now) works only with GPRS for which you would have to pay.

Was this helpful?

Last edited by trrk : 29th January 2010 at 16:13.
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Old 29th January 2010, 16:16   #1203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruchirtnt View Post
nope dear, GPS facility is still chargeable, it depends upon the service provider, like i have mobile office activated in my airtel account for Nokia E71, they charge 300/ month for unlimited browsing, i use it mainly for surfing and official mail check.
That's GPRS Ruchir

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Techno, since nokia maps were not free earlier, to use nokia maps you had to pay.
But now thats gone.
As for GPS, even in those days, people used garmin mobile XT and osmrenderer like applications to view non nokia maps for free.
So there is no fee for GPS. GPS is free. Its the maps which cost.
Thanks Tanveer this is what I wanted to know

So basically in the new age GPS phone one can get navigation

- Offline with preloaded/downloaded(mgmaps etc) maps

- With GPRS for maps which need to be downloaded like Google maps or OVI maps. In this case the GPRS usage charges would apply
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Old 29th January 2010, 17:37   #1204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
- With GPRS for maps which need to be downloaded like Google maps or OVI maps. In this case the GPRS usage charges would apply
OVI maps are stored offline and no charges apply for navigation.

Only if you use online services like weather, traffic then it would use GPRS.
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Old 29th January 2010, 18:16   #1205
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Default Go for unlimited data plans while they're still available

I wonder why people are so hyper paranoid about paying for GPRS ?

One has only to be careful in selecting a plan that allows unlimited or substantially large downloads.

Speaking for the mega-metropolis that is Bombay,
while BPL-Mobile, MaxTouch/Hutch and Airtel all debuted unlimited GPRS data plans here at one time, they have been discontinued by almost all providers: Loop, Vodafone and Airtel in the present day. I surmise the following justifications for this.
  • Sharing digital movie files (over broadband, for example) is too prolific
  • The number of Internet-savvy cellular subscribers in Bombay is astronomically too huge
  • Internet bandwidth is pathetically inadequate for the year 2010
Were unlimited data plans offered here, we would soon swamp and overwhelm the cellular networks.

But mobile operators in many Indian cities, including most of the class-two and class-three cities and municipal towns, do still offer unlimited data plans over GPRS. Use 'em while they're still around !
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Old 29th January 2010, 18:37   #1206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janitha View Post
Here satellite lock is fast, about 30 seconds, but it is with GPRS. Also there is no problem even inside building both at my residence and office. (3 to 5 satellites inside the building and 5 to 8 outside) Positioning is almost exact, and though google says the accuracy within 1000 metres, I feel it is within 50 metres. Nokia map shows only main roads here and very few location names.
My second day with Nokia 5230:

Satellite does not lock inside buildings. Even when outside, certain places near buildings give poor signals for me. Also positioning is very poor and I keep getting warnings that reception is poor/unavailable.

Only at certain outside places I get upto 8 satellites and it takes a long time. I am going on a 100 km highway drive tomorrow, so will get to know about the reception inside my car tomorrow.
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Old 29th January 2010, 18:49   #1207
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@Trrk - yes that was helpful

@NFB - Thanks a lot for all the info you have been providing here & on mobile thread

What i meant was that OVI maps, for regions which are not already there, would need to be downloaded from net which would use GPRS(I believe that they can also be downloaded from net on PC & then loaded on phone).

@Ram - I am not sure if that was directed towards me but if it was then I just want to clear that I have no issues with GPRS(I use it daily to check my mails & some surfing) I am just trying to clear my understanding about working of GPS in mobile phones :-)
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Old 29th January 2010, 20:23   #1208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
I am not sure if that was directed towards me but if it was then I just want to clear that I have no issues with GPRS(I use it daily to check my mails & some surfing) I am just trying to clear my understanding about working of GPS in mobile phones :-)
It sure wasn't directed towards you.

The Global Positioning System (GPS) is USA's space-based radio-navigation system of over 24 satellites for navigation worldwide. It provides reliable location, navigation, and timing services to all on a continuous worldwide basis -- free of cost to all.

Can't we almost hear cellular operators gnashing their teeth at the fact that they can't charge one single paisa for GPS service?
Unfortunately for them, GPS, like Bluetooth and FM stereo is not a cellular VAS !

These satellites contain atomic clocks and orbit the earth in medium earth orbit.

Each of these GPS satellites continuously broadcasts a Navigation and Timing Message at 50 bits per second, no faster.

The messages are sent serially in 1500-bit frames.
Since the data rate is 50 bits per second, each frame takes 30 seconds to transmit or receive.

To get a fix, the GPS receiver must track a minimum of 4 satellites.

That is why an unassisted GPS receiver cannot lock on a fix in less than 30 seconds. Typically it takes 60 to 90 seconds. Unless of course assisted by
the cellular network.

A Nokia N82 cellphone's GPS receiver is a fully functional receiver capable of selecting satellites, acquiring signals, achieving time synchronization, extracting data, performing measurements, and computing its own navigation solution.

Nevertheless, the GPS software's acquisition speed can be enhanced if some or all of the required satellite date is supplied by the cellular network.

I have used my Nokia N82 GPS in Singapore, where I had no subscriber relationship with any local cellular operator. The phone itself was not usable but its GPS receiver and Nokia maps, cached using a broadband Internet connection were.
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Old 29th January 2010, 20:54   #1209
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Thanks a lot Ram, thats some good information on GPS
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Old 29th January 2010, 22:42   #1210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
OVI maps, for regions which are not already there, would need to be downloaded from net which would use GPRS(I believe that they can also be downloaded from net on PC & then loaded on phone).
yes if region is not on phone, it will result on GPRS charges.

However, since you can download all country in a single shot, usually you would already have this data. If you are visiting a foreign country, you need to download data for that country in advance (otherwise data charges would include international roaming rates).
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Old 29th January 2010, 23:12   #1211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram View Post
Each of these GPS satellites continuously broadcasts a Navigation and Timing Message at 50 bits per second, no faster.
At the moment, only US satellites. No other nation has navigational satellites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram View Post
I wonder why people are so hyper paranoid about paying for GPRS ?

One has only to be careful in selecting a plan that allows unlimited or substantially large downloads.
Only if one is in home network, otherwise GPRS/EDGE roaming is still charged, even in unlimited plans. At times, rates are so high that mobile user ends up getting a 'bill shock' later. EU has come up with a regulation to avoid this data roaming 'bill shock'.
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Old 29th January 2010, 23:35   #1212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbraj View Post
Only if one is in home network, otherwise GPRS/EDGE roaming is still charged, even in unlimited plans. At times, rates are so high that mobile user ends up getting a 'bill shock' later. EU has come up with a regulation to avoid this data roaming 'bill shock'.
Only international roaming, isn't it? I use a lot of GPRS while roaming, never got any billing (i have an unlimited plan)
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Old 30th January 2010, 08:41   #1213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLK View Post
Only international roaming, isn't it? I use a lot of GPRS while roaming, never got any billing (i have an unlimited plan)
correct, same here, i also use it a lot but all comes under the unlimited plan.
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Old 30th January 2010, 11:10   #1214
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Default Competitors to NAVSTAR GPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbraj View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram View Post
Each of these GPS satellites continuously broadcasts a Navigation and Timing Message at 50 bits per second, no faster.
At the moment, only US satellites. No other nation has navigational satellites.
1) How does your statement about ownership, relate to 50 bits per second ?

2) Your statement is not true.

Justification:
While the USA's NAVSTAR GPS is the only fully operational Navigational Satellite System today, many others are partly operational.
  1. The USSR had GLONASS (ГЛОНАСС, abbreviation of ГЛОбальная НАвигационная Спутниковая Система).
    It was fully functional in the past, but since the collapse of the Soviet Union, it now only gives partial coverage and partial availability.
    Russia plans to have it fully operational again in 2010 with the help of India, who is participating in the restoration project.
  2. The European Union has GALILEO. It will be operational in 2012. Future GPS receivers can combine GPS and GALILEO reception to highly increase accuracy.
  3. China is expanding their regional navigation system, called Beidou into a global navigation system called COMPASS.
  4. France has a precision navigation system called DORIS.
  5. ISRO, India is building the Indian Regional Navigational Satellite System (IRNSS). It is planned to be completed and implemented by 2012.
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Old 30th January 2010, 12:05   #1215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram View Post
I wonder why people are so hyper paranoid about paying for GPRS ? ...
Actually the number of bytes needed for A-GPS fix is very small. I used my N82 (on Airtel with limited plan in India) in Sweden with stored maps, and my bill showed a very small amount for data access (I think it was Rs.20.xx for that trip). Ditto in Japan (I used an HTC TD2 with Garmin; no other data usage). It is the map tile download, like on Google Maps, which consumes data.

I have an unlimited plan on my BB, alas there are no decent navigation software and maps for it. Funnily, RIM advertises GPS & Navigation on BB devices in India, but they don't have India maps!

Last edited by DerAlte : 30th January 2010 at 12:07.
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