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Old 4th December 2012, 11:49   #1
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Default Missing Turbo Boost / Kick

Dear bhpians,

Regarding:- turbo kicking in
Car:- Rapid TDI ambition, 3 months old and 7500 kms run, July 2012 manufactured.

When I had test driven rapid before buying there was an evident, considerable and sudden push post 1900-2000 rpm when turbo kicked in.

But in my car, post 1500 rpm car starts pulling comfortably and continues to do so even post 2000...2500 rpm in a similar way(linear acceleration). There is no sudden pull post 2000 rpm.

That sudden rush when turbo kicks in is completely missing in my car.
Couple of my friends who have driven this car have the same observation. Please confirm if its normal/similar in other Rapid TDIs. I havent driven any other Rapid to compare.

Note: On highways, car hits 100 kmph speed at 2300 rpm. This is inline with what GTO had mentioned in this report.

Thanks and cheers,
--Yash

P.S: Moderators, I had posted this message on Rapid Test Drive and Review post. As I didn't get any response for a week posting it here as a separate thread. If inappropriate please terminate this thread.
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Old 4th December 2012, 16:45   #2
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Default re: Missing Turbo Boost / Kick

First let me clarify this, you mean to say the other rapids you have driven has that "push" and your car doesn't have? OR is it that the TD car is different from yours?

If its former then you have an issue.

But before you jump into any conclusion, keep in mind that the push will depend also on:

1) Way you accelerate - Just mashing hard might not be the right way for a TDI engine, better would be to be firm but give the acceleration input based on the way in which the RPM climbs.

2) Air filter - Very important esp if you drive in dusty conditions. Remove them and blow some mildly compressed air from the manifold side to the air intake/external side.

3) Fuel - Might be a good idea to try it with another fuel station once and see.

4) Driving style and ECU - These cars tend to learn a bit from the way they are driven and respond accordingly, usually relearning every 3k kms or so.

So my advice is for you to drive one or two similar cars, in your normal style and then compare.
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Old 4th December 2012, 17:08   #3
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Default re: Missing Turbo Boost / Kick

Note from Mod: There are several spelling & grammatical errors in your posts. This negatively affects the board experience for other readers.

Kindly ensure that you proof-read your posts prior to submission. Also, it would be a good idea to use spell-checkers.

Last edited by GTO : 5th December 2012 at 13:41.
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Old 4th December 2012, 17:17   #4
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Default re: Missing Turbo Boost / Kick

Thanks Jaggu for your reply.
My replies inline ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
you mean to say the other rapids you have driven has that "push" and your car doesn't have? OR is it that the TD car is different from yours?
I have driven only the TD car from the dealer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
1) Way you accelerate - Just mashing hard might not be the right way for a TDI engine, better would be to be firm but give the acceleration input based on the way in which the RPM climbs.
I agree. I dont slam the accelerator hard. With around 18k(8k in rapid and another 10k with figo diesel) of diesel car driving exp, I have become comfortable in driving diesels.
Though I carry quite some speed in driving, I am easy on accelerator and RPMs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
2) Air filter - Very important esp if you drive in dusty conditions. Remove them and blow some mildly compressed air from the manifold side to the air intake/external side.
dusty conditions - yes. So I will get it checked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
3) Fuel - Might be a good idea to try it with another fuel station once and see.
I have been filling fuel from only 2 bunks in Blore which I consider to be reputed. Let me try Shell bunk next time and check.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
4) Driving style and ECU - These cars tend to learn a bit from the way they are driven and respond accordingly, usually relearning every 3k kms or so.
I have driven this car sedately all these 8k kms. May be I tamed the beast in a wrong way

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
So my advice is for you to drive one or two similar cars, in your normal style and then compare.
I will try to drive couple of rapids with similar odo and try to compare.

I have couple of queries though.
1. Is the state of engine tune in Rapid(June 2012 manufactured) different from Vento's?
2. Is the state of engine tune in June 2012 manufactured Rapid different from Nov-Dec 2011 manufactured Rapids?

Thanks and regards,
--Yash
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Old 4th December 2012, 18:26   #5
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Post re: Missing Turbo Boost / Kick

Quote:
Originally Posted by yash.giri View Post
When I had test driven rapid before buying there was an evident, considerable and sudden push post 1900-2000 rpm when turbo kicked in.

But in my car, post 1500 rpm car starts pulling comfortably and continues to do so even post 2000...2500 rpm in a similar way(linear acceleration). There is no sudden pull post 2000 rpm.

That sudden rush when turbo kicks in is completely missing in my car.
Couple of my friends who have driven this car have the same observation. Please confirm if its normal/similar in other Rapid TDIs. I havent driven any other Rapid to compare.
Yash, why are you missing the sudden whoosh of the turbo in that dreaded Bangalore traffic?? I'd be wary if I were the car in front of you

Just kidding! But seriously are you one of those that get a rush from the turbo surge? In fact, the way I see it your car is a lot more driveable in-city. The turbo spooling can get annoying in start-stop traffic - unfortunately a harsh reality in both Bengaluru and Mumbai. Unless you're also experiencing a loss in power in the midrange. In that case, get it checked out immediately.

If you must know, my friend has a 2012 Rapid TDI. When driven with a light to moderately heavy right foot, I have found the power delivery to be fairly linear in his car although I will give you that there is a noticeable push beyond the 2K mark. Of course I wouldn't still quite place it in the earlier Cruze's category, but it is evident nonetheless. If you're expecting anything like the feeling that the pre-2012 Cruze gives you, you may end up disappointed.

Personally, I doubt Skoda has made any changes in the way 2011 & 2012 models are tuned. Therefore I would also urge you to drive another Rapid - preferably an ownership not a TD car - and compare for yourself.

And also keep us posted of changes, if any, after Jaggu's suggestions above.

Last edited by Omtoatom : 4th December 2012 at 18:28.
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Old 4th December 2012, 19:07   #6
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Default re: Missing Turbo Boost / Kick

Is there also a possibility that you have gotten used to the turbo kick ?
If i remember correctly, the rapid has more of a linear power delivery, unlike the old swift .

So could it be a possibility that over the time you have gotten used to the linear power delivery? I would suggest you to test drive some other rapids before coming down to any conclusion's..

Further for the interim try changing your fuel pump, maybe that would help
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Old 4th December 2012, 19:08   #7
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Default re: Missing Turbo Boost / Kick

Thanks dear Omtoatom.

That turbo kick, definitely, will be enjoyable. But, as you mentioned it wont be missed in the jam packed traffic.
Yeah, the car is lot more drivable in city conditions currently.

Planning to meet a friend who owns a Rapid TDI(Nov 2011 manufactured) and check out.

Cheers,
--Yash
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Old 4th December 2012, 19:27   #8
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Default

Try this. Remove one of battery terminals and leave it for half hour. Then reconnect the terminal. Head for the NICE road for a long end to end drive and mash the throttle whenever its safe. Preferably mash it in first 3 gears. Try if you are getting that push back feel.

By removing the terminal you are brain washing the ECU. So when you drive aggressively after that the ECU relearns the new driving style.

Try this and let us know
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Old 5th December 2012, 15:27   #9
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Default Chevrolet Cruze - The case of the missing Torque / Turbo Boost ...

I purchased a Chevrolet Cruze LTZ 150 vcdi back in July 2012. I am facing the following issue :

The car picks up initial Boost (1300 RPM) till only about 2000~2200 RPM after which the boost stays flat and the rpm keeps climbing all the way to 4000 but the car doesnt move. I am currently getting a in city / highway mileage of 7 KMPL even with a light foot.

Trident Chevrolet escalated the issue to Chevrolet India and their engineer located in bangalore took umpteen test drives, tightened / checked all hoses and returned the car with the Fog Lamp's Disconnected, Ambient Air Temprature Sensor Disconnected and the Egr Vaccum Hose Disconnected without resolving the issue (I had to fix these myself).

Trident Chevrolet has acknowledged the issue but are unable to find the problem and are ready to work with the me to solve the issue.

The Following are the work done on the car:

1. MAF Sensor Changed @ 5k KM Service

2. EGR Cleaned - 10k KM Service (9400Kms)

3. Trident Suspects the Turbo might be malfunctioning and have ordered a replacement for the same. But I am not sure the turbo has a issue since the Boost Readings are fine (Got it cross checked with one of the known tuners in bangalore).

Bottom Line - Chevrolet India is in-capable of diagnosing the problem let alone fixing the issue.

I appreciate any help I can get form you guy's on identifying the issue.
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Old 5th December 2012, 15:48   #10
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Default Re: Chevrolet Cruze - The case of the missing Torque / Turbo Boost ...

Sorry to know about your situation and your Cruze possibly could be the first on the forum where its reported with so many issues and that too seem pretty major.

From what I can understand your dealership seems to be proactive in trying to help you resolve the issue and in that event even replacing all components that seem to be errorneous

With respect to the car not coming into the power band despite reaching higher RPM, the turbo could be the main culprit since the sensors have been already replaced.

Do let us know if this problem is resolved after the faulty turbo is replaced. And, this is also possible the reason for getting such a low FE ( assuming your car is manual)

Cheers and Goodluck
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Old 5th December 2012, 16:04   #11
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Default Re: Chevrolet Cruze - The case of the missing Torque / Turbo Boost ...

Thank's, Well I am hoping the turbo replacement would solve the issue. I will update on the progress.

I am bit aghast @ GM / Chevrolet India on how they have handled this issue so far. Inspite of the dealer escalating this issue apart from myself, They just seem dis-interested. They are more in a Sell and Forget Mode rather than working with the Dealer / Customer in resolving the issue.

I have sent 3 email's so far as a follow up to the issue and each time all they do is forward it to the Dealer (When the dealer himself has escalated the issue to them stating "Unable to identify the issue").
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Old 5th December 2012, 18:33   #12
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Post Re: Chevrolet Cruze - The case of the missing Torque / Turbo Boost ...

Sorry to hear about your situation SUV. It is really unfortunate. The sad part is that both Chevrolet and the dealership have not been able to carry out an effective and conclusive diagnosis of the problem.

My first impression also was that the turbo is malfunctioning. However as you say, if there is no real boost after 2200 rpm, then the boost readings should've thrown that up. That they seem to be fine is a little baffling. I suggest you still wait up for the turbo to be replaced. I have a gut feeling that is where the root cause of the issue lies.

Please keep us posted of the developments in as much detail as possible.
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Old 7th December 2012, 13:32   #13
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Default Re: Missing Turbo Boost / Kick

Update : The Turbo was changed, ECU reprogrammed, EBCM re-programmed.

Outcome : No Change.
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Old 7th December 2012, 14:56   #14
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Default Re: Missing Turbo Boost / Kick

Team,

This post tempts me to put across an issue I have observed in my SX4 Diesel ..

The Turbo boost is again ... another one of the main reasons for me to get this car as initailly experienced in the Test driven vehicle ( SX4 )

Enjoyed the Boost until it lasted , until recently what I have noticed is that the Boost is at its best only at certain levels of Fuel in the tank

Let me Explain , everytime I tank up to half tank the Boost is amazing , this continues till the Fuel indicator shows Quarter tank to empty.. this is where at times it seems as if there is no boost at all and continues to do so until the last Bar on the Fuel indicator and then suddenly returns back to normal ...then I tank up and the cycle repeats itself .

I know this may sound ridiculous but I have reproduced this issue N number of times ... funny thing is that I do not know how to put it across to MASS

Any Ideas ?

Last edited by Peter : 7th December 2012 at 14:57.
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Old 7th December 2012, 15:28   #15
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Default Re: Missing Turbo Boost / Kick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
Team,

This post tempts me to put across an issue I have observed in my SX4 Diesel ..

The Turbo boost is again ... another one of the main reasons for me to get this car as initailly experienced in the Test driven vehicle ( SX4 )

Enjoyed the Boost until it lasted , until recently what I have noticed is that the Boost is at its best only at certain levels of Fuel in the tank

Let me Explain , everytime I tank up to half tank the Boost is amazing , this continues till the Fuel indicator shows Quarter tank to empty.. this is where at times it seems as if there is no boost at all and continues to do so until the last Bar on the Fuel indicator and then suddenly returns back to normal ...then I tank up and the cycle repeats itself .

Meanwhile, my issue which was solved after two turbo changes is back again. With 28K on ODO, I am again having boost issues. Boost happens only around 2.4K RPM. Ride in question is a 2010 Swift VDi BS4 version. I am waiting for the 30K service to have a look into it.

I know this may sound ridiculous but I have reproduced this issue N number of times ... funny thing is that I do not know how to put it across to MASS

Any Ideas ?
If you can reproduce it, then its fine I believe. You can tell the same scenario to MASS, of course they might laugh first time Take 3 visits to MASS, one with tankful, then with the tank near quarter mark and the third time when it hits the last bar. Each time get an acknowledgement from them that your observation is correct. The underlying issue might be simple for them to diagnose.

Last edited by bhp_maniac : 7th December 2012 at 15:31.
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