Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


View Poll Results: Does more heavy, mean more safe?
Yes 25 22.12%
No 59 52.21%
Maybe 29 25.66%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd July 2008, 15:12   #76
Senior - BHPian
 
srishiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 3,572
Thanked: 814 Times
Default

In a car for the occupants and others outside ? No.
srishiva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2008, 15:27   #77
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,038
Thanked: 681 Times
Default

This seems to be an eternal debate. Personally I'd like to be in a modern well built vehicle if at all I'm involved in a road accident. No flimsy all crumple vehicle for me.

You folks might also want to see the quote from Crashtest.com below.

(Quote) Overall Ratings - Crashtest.com evaluates all the available data on a specific vehicle and assigns it 1 of 5 possible performance ratings. The overall rating is not simply an average of the other scores, because certain categories count more from a safety point of view.

The most significant safety determinant, worth as much as all the others put together, is Weight. It is so important that it would overwhelm all other factors if included in the assessment, so we do not include it in our overall rating. However we strongly recommend that you note BOTH of the last 2 rating categories Weight and Overall, when you consider the ultimate crashworthiness of a particular model. (End of Quote)
Lalvaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2008, 16:07   #78
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bengalooru
Posts: 1,471
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Isn't that contradictory? Isn't that a modern vehicle designed with crumple zones? Also in the video between Modus and 940, which had better crumple zone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
This seems to be an eternal debate. Personally I'd like to be in a modern well built vehicle if at all I'm involved in a road accident. No flimsy all crumple vehicle for me.
diabloo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2008, 16:15   #79
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,038
Thanked: 681 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Isn't that contradictory? Isn't that a modern vehicle designed with crumple zones? Also in the video between Modus and 940, which had better crumple zone?
Yeah, a modern vehicle has crumple zones, but some of them are just one big crumple zone. Also, specific to the question about the weight, please read the link thats been posted. All crash testing has proved that in a 2 vehicle collision, the heavier vehicle will be better off. Which is why all crash testing rates vehicles according to their segments.
Lalvaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2008, 16:38   #80
Senior - BHPian
 
srishiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 3,572
Thanked: 814 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
Yeah, a modern vehicle has crumple zones, but some of them are just one big crumple zone. Also, specific to the question about the weight, please read the link thats been posted. All crash testing has proved that in a 2 vehicle collision, the heavier vehicle will be better off. Which is why all crash testing rates vehicles according to their segments.
The discussion is shifting from NHC thread to this place.
The keyword is "different segments" and similar crash ratings. Its not just cr** zones. Its how the energy is routed around the cabin.

Safety is being trivialized to stick to a point.
srishiva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2008, 17:08   #81
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bengalooru
Posts: 1,471
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Car-to-car is just one of the tests. Few common tests:
  1. Frontal-Impact Tests - impacts upon a solid concrete wall
  2. Offset Tests - only part of the front of the car impacts with a barrier (vehicle)
  3. Side-Impact Tests
  4. Roll-over Tests - to test pillar's ability to hold the roof
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
All crash testing has proved that in a 2 vehicle collision, the heavier vehicle will be better off. Which is why all crash testing rates vehicles according to their segments.
diabloo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2008, 17:29   #82
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,038
Thanked: 681 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
The discussion is shifting from NHC thread to this place.
The keyword is "different segments" and similar crash ratings. Its not just cr** zones. Its how the energy is routed around the cabin.

Safety is being trivialized to stick to a point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Car-to-car is just one of the tests. Few common tests:
  1. Frontal-Impact Tests - impacts upon a solid concrete wall
  2. Offset Tests - only part of the front of the car impacts with a barrier (vehicle)
  3. Side-Impact Tests
  4. Roll-over Tests - to test pillar's ability to hold the roof
I was just voting on the poll regarding the weight of the vehicle versus safety. And if you do a little research on crash testing methodology, you'll find that weight is one of the most important safety parameters to the extent that it overshadows all else.

Having said that, I'm really not interested in debating the merits of one particular brand of car versus another. Thats been done to death already. I'm signing out of this argument, mates.
Lalvaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2008, 21:00   #83
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Gurgawn
Posts: 15
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Hi All

I voted "No".

1. Weight does not mean stronger. Quality of the materials used matters. e.g
Alloy wheels are much more stronger than steel wheels and alloys are lighter than steel wheels.

2. Strength does not always mean safer. It is the safety equipment that counts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
So if you design two cars with similar engineering the heavier one will be safer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Exactly my thoughts. Well put.

GTO

I beg to differ.

If more metal put into the design of the car ; the impact bars , side bars and the other components of the crumple zone would be thicker and would absorb less energy of the crash. And if they absorb less energy the energy would be transmitted to the passengers. And hence more injuries .

Also a heavier car would be hard to control in emergency situations .

Just my thoughts

Spinner Wheelz
Spinner Wheelz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2008, 14:16   #84
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Thiruvananthapuram
Posts: 25
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

I believe weight is only a byproduct of the design. I really do not believe anyone would design an automobile to be heavy.

To start at the beginning, heavier objects have more inertia and hence resist movement thereby acts against the basic principles of locomotion.

Secondly this inertia is not just from rest to motion, but also changing direction of motion, so second aspect that takes a direct hit is maneuverability. Or in other words, safety.

Third manifestation of inertia is from movement to rest. Hence greater demands on the braking system, longer braking distances and again safety takes a direct hit.

However, certain other design aspects generate weight on the final product which is unavoidable. Designers go to extreme lengths to minimize this as much as possible by the choice of material etc. Never heard of the opposite happening, that is material being added to a product to increase it's weight.

Put up a thick, heavy metallic bull bar in front of the car bolted to the chasis (thereby short circuiting an expensive and thoughtfully designed plastic bumper, the first crumple zone in a frontal impact) and see what improvement in safety you get!
S.H.Shankar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bike seized as it was modified. What does this mean for the modifiers out there? Rtech The Indian Car Scene 94 20th June 2016 11:17
Tyre "Jump Maar Raha Hai"What does it mean humyum Technical Stuff 26 10th November 2006 18:04
Does safety mean anything here DRC Street Experiences 28 25th August 2006 13:42
What does it mean ? Technocrat Super-Cars & Imports in India 18 26th November 2004 18:45


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 19:16.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks