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Old 6th February 2013, 21:33   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post

One of which is getting used tyres from the market which date back to the model of the car. There is a market running just for this which feeds the used car dealers.
Absolutely and they dont even need to buy those tyres. One of the prominent used car market employs an idea which can fox you and me.

They get particular year manufactured tyres on rent. When you bargain with the dealer he would say 'Sir I have a newer model car for sale with me, I will change these old tyres with them'.

Customer is super happy that he is getting tyres which have a lot of tread still available. In reality he is only getting the tyres which were there on this particular car and might be 2nd or 3rd set for that particular car.
So he buys a car with odo 25k which actually might be 65k. (just an example).
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Old 6th February 2013, 23:30   #32
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I am sorry for not reading through the entire thing but Linkway Honda (Mumbai) gave me entire service details of the Honda Civic you see in my signature(below) over a simple phone call.

Sitting in the Bavdhan, Pune Showroom of Mahindra First Choice, I made a call (first to Justdial.com and then) to Linkway Honda, Andheri??, Mumbai (the Dealership name coming from the sticker stuck on the car) and explained to them that I wanted to buy the Car used and needed its service details.

My call was promptly transferred to a very helpful chap who meticulously gave me the entire service record of my car starting from service #1 till the last service which had happened barely 1500km back including details such as parts changed, other jobs done, repainting if any and the actual service bill amounts. All the details I needed were given out without any fuss, all over the phone. Only after confirming that everything was in order did we hand over the token amount to the MFC Showroom.

Anyways, the other signs like the no. of rattles (none), tyre manufacturing dates, paint finish, panel fitting, bonnet-seal, headlight conditions (last 4 used to reject accident cars) apart from the actual test drive were also in order.

I haven't really seen an easier method to verify odometer readings than this. If dealerships of all manufacturers are as straightforward in answering such queries for resale cars, the entire advantage of under-clocking the odometer is totally lost.
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Old 7th February 2013, 03:57   #33
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I once checked out a 7-8 yr old Lancer at Bangalore. It belonged to the MD of a well-known Telecom Operator in the country. The people(they were agents) told me, the MD doesn't use this car much, and that it has done only a genuine 53000 km. I believed it, too, from the shiny condition of the car. After test driving it for some time I couldn't make out much, maybe because I was not very used to how Lancers drive. It ran very smooth, the gearshift was very smooth etc... And my mind was inclined to fixing the deal.

I stopped at an empty space(earlier we were near a busy junction), an and did a thorough check:

They had the car washed and serviced, so the car looked good. But somewhere hidden near the door hinge, I found a sticker which said 'Next Service at 77000', and date was in 2007 ( I checked the car in 2009-10) - which meant the car had done 75,000 two yrs back.

I bid them goodbye at once. They called me back saying they'll negotiate on the price etc, but I just said "No, Thanks".

My small advice would be to always check the car in a calm and free space where we can settle down and have a good look.

Another experience was with a dealer who tried to sell me a Ford Fiesta which was used as a Hotel Taxi in Mumbai. The odo read 80,000 kms which I wouldn't believe, it being a taxi. He explained me that even though it shows 80,000 kms, it has actually done only around 60,000 kms+, because the taxi drivers make adjustments to show more distance than actual in the odo, to charge the users more.

The car looked good, and was in shining condition. But I was just not willing to trust the 80K figure, especially from someone who cheats the customers on a daily basis

Last edited by benbsb29 : 7th February 2013 at 06:12. Reason: Merging back-to-back posts. Plz use the Edit button if posting within 30 mins of previous post.
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Old 7th February 2013, 09:51   #34
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I am currently running on my 4th pre-owned car, and from personal experience I have found it very difficult to get service history. It is a hit or a miss, depending on the person you happen to interact on that specific day.

For Tata or Fiat vehicles, there is a simple online way to determine the last service details.

http://www.tatamotorsassured.com/ind...l&view=tmasell

Name:  Tata.png
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Put in the Registration Number here and you have some data that you can use to co-relate. When I picked up my Manza, it had done 9K in 2 years. Sounded strange for a diesel car. Did a quick check online and the data matched. Only then did i proceed to discuss with the buyer (who had relocated out of india, explaining why the car was so sparingly used).

I also use this to filter out any fraudulent dealers. I have seen vehicles with 1L+ kms in this log being sold claiming 40K km. Now Tata Vehicles do not age well and thus such frauds may be easily caught, but then if you can save time by a quick online check, why not?
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Old 7th February 2013, 11:54   #35
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
I came across another kind of Odo Meter fraud by Taxi Operators. Generally this is popular in daily taxi hires (not radio cab operators) from Railway Station, Airport etc. They actually over-clock the ODO to record more kms. Generally for every .7Km they record 1Km.

One of my trusted old taxi driver told me they change something in gearbox to record more Kms and mint more money from unknown customers.
Slightly OT here.

In Pune, some of the affiliated vehicles of radio cab services do not have the electronic meter. They will pick you up, show you trip meter A being reset to 0, while trip meter B would have been reset to 0 few kms before they arrive at your pick up point.

At the destination, trip meter B is shown as the actual distance traveled. Caught the guy doing this and he was all sheepish. Being a petrol head helps!!
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Old 7th February 2013, 13:13   #36
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

This is again a similar thread parallel to a much known thread (how to buy used car).

Tempering the digital ODOs are very old matter. It was told me by a Scorpio owner (who was a contractor by profession and travel a lot) when I saw the odo of his three years old Scorpio at only 65k kms that odo was tempered after 2.5 lakhs k kms. But it is not enough.
He also told me that we cannot make fool the service center guys by tempering the odo. Besides they are having service records the can read the total crank shafts rotations by ECU and by this they can calculate 98% accurate kms covered.

It is always better to buy pre owned premium cars from the authorized dealers (of course with open eye).

Like this fortuner, another example can be found on this thread (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...-now-sold.html (40000 km = 80000 km. 2007 Verna CRDi. Got cheated, Now sold.))

As a thumb rule one should keep away more than 2 years old cars. As the time goes, chances for 420 are more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mac187 View Post
First, you should have refused to drive the car. I was offered a test drive of a customers car that had come in for service once. I flatly refused. The least these dealerships can do is invest money for one demo car. I don't think thats too much to ask for when one is in the business of selling automobiles.
.
No dealers are bound to buy demo vehicle. There is no choice from them but they keep these vehicles for their own/ family use and for test ride they use customerís vehicle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sachinayak View Post
For Tata or Fiat vehicles, there is a simple online way to determine the last service details.
http://www.tatamotorsassured.com/ind...l&view=tmasell
Great link.
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Old 7th February 2013, 13:45   #37
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

Quote:
Originally Posted by sachinayak View Post
For Tata or Fiat vehicles, there is a simple online way to determine the last service details.
That's an AWESOME tip! Thanks for sharing.

The guy who bought my Indigo could have easily verified the mileage as being accurate. Of course, it's a different story that I sold it at 40,000 odd kms, but the car looked & drove like an 80,000 car Damned Tata cars age so very fast.

How to detect *Odometer Fraud*-indigo.jpg

Last edited by GTO : 7th February 2013 at 13:47.
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Old 7th February 2013, 14:20   #38
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmxylorider View Post
Slightly OT here.

In Pune, some of the affiliated vehicles of radio cab services do not have the electronic meter. They will pick you up, show you trip meter A being reset to 0, while trip meter B would have been reset to 0 few kms before they arrive at your pick up point.

At the destination, trip meter B is shown as the actual distance traveled. Caught the guy doing this and he was all sheepish. Being a petrol head helps!!
Do the taxis have two trip meters? I know Wings Radio taxis use this trip meter to charge customers. Would it help if I note down the Odo reading of the taxi at the start of the journey and at the end of the journey and arrive at kms travelled? But still it won't address the issue if the overall meter itself is tampered with to show higher reading.
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Old 8th February 2013, 23:10   #39
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

Seriously, this fraud is getting more and more insane.

I recently saw an Audi A6 3.0 Quattro which was 6-7 years old registered to a company showing an odo reading of 36,000 km. Given the Delhi NCR scene, I know that cars tend to do mileage that's crazy. The car had impeccable seats (a bit too good!) and also, the engine though sweet, sounded rough.

Let's be clear - an Audi shouldn't age at 36,000 km but the 3.0 Petrol had much lesser juice than my 320d, and that too by a mile. Even though I had paid a bit for him to 'reserve' the car, we had to bite the bullet and walk away because there were too many question marks as per a trusted person who we got to check the car out.
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Old 14th February 2013, 17:39   #40
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
...
PS: I would personally still believe his 2L km done bike would be in better condition (and ready for a 5000km ride) than most college goers' 50k km done bike...
Quote:
Originally Posted by joey645 View Post
...Phamilyman, I accept your argument. But the kind of exceptions to the rule are just that.. exceptions. How many doctors have the time to go gallavanting? How many sales guys do you know who don't travel odd hours and insane kms?

While stereotyping is, like you said, not the answer in itself, I think it can be used a benchmark to arrive at your own answer.
I will still stick to phamilyman's view of looking beyond than the profession of the owner. A guy(Genuine Doctor) who doesn't know driving a car would have definitely damaged the clutch plate, suspension so quickly than a properly known to drive guy ( genuine sales man). So always look at all avenues before ticking the check box's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
So Odometer and ECU store mileage data independently is it? This is news to me. I always thought Odo meter reflected whatever is present in the ECU memory. If this is the case then we have found a fool proof way to check if the ODO is tampered or not!
ECU's are the more easy to flash than the Odometers. Because, reflashing ECU's are official as it can be done any number of times even during your regular service, in order to eliminate some popping errors.
Also its not absolutely necessary for an ECU to remember the odo reading. It may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and variant to variant ( capacity of the ECU)
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Old 16th February 2013, 12:27   #41
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

Most of the pointers here help in validating the ODO reading less than 30k.

Is there any way of validating a reading of 70k or 80k on the ODO? Is there any way of identifying a genuine 70k or 80k from a 160k tampered back to 80k if the service history is not available?
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Old 16th February 2013, 13:54   #42
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Most of the pointers here help in validating the ODO reading less than 30k.

Is there any way of validating a reading of 70k or 80k on the ODO? Is there any way of identifying a genuine 70k or 80k from a 160k tampered back to 80k if the service history is not available?
To identify a genuine 70k car from a tampered 170k car is a tad difficult. Nevertheless, you can look for following pointers based on the principle of wear and tear:

- A 170k driven car's clutch, brake and accelerator pedals would be at the end of their life as compared to a genuine 70k.
- Even in case of changed rubber pedals, the close inspection of steering wheel for the regular wear and tear can tell a tale.
- The gear lever knob and driver side operating switches are a good indicator as well. Speaking of personal observation, a typical maruti's wiper stalk and beam stalk's paint wade off by the time it crosses 150k km despite being maintained well.
- Assuming the car to be city driven, a 70-80k run car's clutch would be at its last leg. Same may not be true for a 170k run car.
- If any of the above parameters is found unsatisfactory combined with no service history and involvement of a dealer instead of direct party dealing, it is a good enough indication to run away from such a car and look for another classified.

Regards
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Old 18th February 2013, 11:33   #43
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This is an extremely informative and useful thread. Thanks to all who have contributed to this knowledge base.

Many years ago, I got taken for a big ride when I purchased a pre-owned Premier 118NE directly from the owner in Delhi. Though the odo was showing 40,000 KM or so, it had probably done 1,40,000 KM -- I had to get the engine rebored a few months after buying the car! That one bitter experience taught me some very valuable lessons.

I bought a XUV-500 a few months ago and discovered to my surprise that its odometer can be easily 'reset' (like trip meters) more than once. Read about it at http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post2946254

I have been told that this resetting of the odometer in the XUV can be done only when the car is brand new (less than 250 KM) and not more than 250 KM can be knocked off the odometer cumulatively. But I could not independently verify these figures. Anyway, I'm not at all clear about the rationale behind the manufacturer providing such a simple way to reset the odo unless it is just to help dealers to present slightly used (driven from godown or service centre to showroom, a few test drives, etc.) cars to unsuspecting buyers as virginal.
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Old 18th February 2013, 11:56   #44
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

A friend had sold his Dzire with 167K on odo,to a dealer,and few days later,we saw the same car with person happily driving it around with 48K on odo
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Old 16th May 2013, 17:25   #45
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The condition of car keys are also a fair indicator of how much the car is driven, though it will give just a rough estimate.

A car which has clocked genuine 30,000 kms in 10 years will still have sparkling keys (KEYS- mean both keys and original) while a car that is driven some 70-80K kms and then rolled back on the odo, will have the brass colors exposed on the keys. Also the levers on the keys would show signs of wear due to abrasion with the key hole on the doors, boot and of course, the ignition switch.
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