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Old 25th August 2014, 17:51   #61
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

I think it's quite prevalent these days..

Hired an Uber the other day and got a Fortuner for my ride to the airport. The driver proudly proclaimed how he uses his laptop to rig the odometer and fleece his agency and Uber for his non-hired time. I was amazed to know how apparently even the BMWs, Mercs and Audi's are also susceptible to this.
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Old 28th September 2015, 21:32   #62
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Thumbs down TN 07 BM 4420 - Odometer tampered

I'm in the market for a used automatic car. Today I had been to a dealership to check out a used Verna CRDI SX AT.
Since my brother is working for Hyundai, I had asked him to check the details about the car before reaching the dealership. He confirmed that the car has done 87k kms. It was checked in a system named CDMS, Hyundai's global management system.
When i checked the car, the odo had been reversed to 53k kms . Wanted to keep BHPians and readers informed. Pls keep away from buying this particular car and from the dealership
Model: Verna
Variant: SX CRDI AT(opt)
Reg. Nl.: TN 07 BM 4420
Colour: Black
Year: 2011
Odo reading in car: 53k kms (tampered)
Original odo reading: 87k kms
Price quoted: 6.5lacs
Dealership: Vijay Cars
Location: Kolathur/Retteri, Chennai
Mods, didn't know where to post, pls move post to appropriate thread. Thanks.
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Old 29th September 2015, 09:20   #63
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

The CDMS considers the kilometers entered by the Service Advisor for Hyundai during billing or entering the Job card. So the kilometers shown would be the last time the car was referred at a Service Station. So the car could now have clocked more than 83K.
One fallacy of this system is we are the mercy of SA to enter the right kilometers or enter the details in the first place. For example, my parents Santro bought used is 2004 registered but in the system I could not find any entry for it until mid of 2005.

Last edited by DWind : 29th September 2015 at 09:22.
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Old 29th September 2015, 12:28   #64
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Default Re: Meter Tampering - Rampant in most used cars sold in India

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One fallacy of this system is we are the mercy of SA to enter the right kilometers or enter the details in the first place. For example, my parents Santro bought used is 2004 registered but in the system I could not find any entry for it until mid of 2005.

Totally true. And the SAs are often not too attentive to details like this. I was curious and just checked my 2014 Nano's odo history on the Tata website. Apparently according to them, I have clocked 3,18,151 kms in about a year. The correct reading, of course, is supposed to be 31,185 km.

So much for having a system in place for keeping track of odo readings.

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Old 29th September 2015, 12:46   #65
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

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Originally Posted by Monaro View Post
I think it's quite prevalent these days..

Hired an Uber the other day and got a Fortuner for my ride to the airport. The driver proudly proclaimed how he uses his laptop to rig the odometer and fleece his agency and Uber for his non-hired time. I was amazed to know how apparently even the BMWs, Mercs and Audi's are also susceptible to this.
I am more amazed by the software proficiency/technical knowledge of a cab driver.

However, it is highly unlikely that used car dealers are not practicing odometer tempering if it is so easy that even a cab driver can do it.
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Old 29th September 2015, 13:30   #66
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

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Originally Posted by Monaro View Post
I think it's quite prevalent these days..

Hired an Uber the other day and got a Fortuner for my ride to the airport. The driver proudly proclaimed how he uses his laptop to rig the odometer and fleece his agency and Uber for his non-hired time.

How can he fleece Uber by tampering Odo? Dont they entirely depend upon GPS for the billing?
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Old 29th September 2015, 14:10   #67
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

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Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
I am more amazed by the software proficiency/technical knowledge of a cab driver.

However, it is highly unlikely that used car dealers are not practicing odometer tempering if it is so easy that even a cab driver can do it.
If the Uber claims are true - he probably gave up his IT job for a better paying opportunity
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Old 29th September 2015, 16:20   #68
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

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Originally Posted by DWind View Post
The CDMS considers the kilometers entered by the Service Advisor for Hyundai during billing or entering the Job card. So the kilometers shown would be the last time the car was referred at a Service Station. So the car could now have clocked more than 83K.
One fallacy of this system is we are the mercy of SA to enter the right kilometers or enter the details in the first place. For example, my parents Santro bought used is 2004 registered but in the system I could not find any entry for it until mid of 2005.
Precisely the point I wanted to make. For my Esteem which had done about 34k kms a few years ago, I was shocked to see the invoice and JC showing as 54k just because the SA had entered it incorrectly. The next time I had the car serviced, managed to get that changed in their systems.

Another point to consider is the replacement of odometer under warranty or otherwise which happened in case of my Esteem. While, this is recorded in the service history, it may still appear fishy. When my car was barely a year old, the entire speedometer assembly was replaced under warranty and the car had hardly done 7k kms.
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Old 29th September 2015, 17:54   #69
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

one question here - when we sell the cars to dealers, do they do all this checking while buying. Can i tamper the ODO myself to make it low driven car and sell to dealer
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Old 10th November 2015, 15:34   #70
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

A close relative of mine has decided to buy a used diesel Ritz. At the point at which I got involved in the buying process, I went to a Maruti service center and asked about the service history of the car (they didn't give a printout but let me look at the history on a tablet): it had clocked 1,11,000 km as of July 2015 and had been recommended several repairs (but refused by the owner) like rear shockers, silencer, oil pan etc, total worth around 30k according to the SA I talked to.

Now, the digital odometer on the Ritz shows 75,012 km. When I confronted the dealer about this, his exact words were: "Yes we did it but nobody would buy this car if they saw 1,11,000 km on the odometer". And no, he did not offer any discounts owing to the fact that the odo had been tampered with and the car needed repairs. The person buying the car is in a hurry and is ok paying the quoted price so I didn't bother negotiating after a point.

Oh and did I mention, this Ritz had CarTrade certification? Just goes to show how trustworthy these so called "certifications" are. CarTrade (and others) has an obvious conflict of interest: if they start telling the entire truth about the cars then no dealer/seller would get the car certified in the first place as it reduces the car's resale value. Out of 20+ cars we looked at, just two had untampered odometers.

Which brings me to my question: should the Ritz's odometer be reverted back to 1,11,000? This is because the car will be continued to be serviced at Maruti ASSs only. Would they make a fuss after finding out about the tampering?

Last edited by Tanmay K : 10th November 2015 at 15:36.
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Old 11th November 2015, 17:33   #71
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

This is by far the biggest scam in the second hand market done by almost every dealer there is. This happened to my dad in 2001 when we purchased our first car which was a used Maruti 800 from this dealer called Madan Motors in Chembur.

We were on the lookout for our first car in October 2001 since my dad had just resigned from his central govt. job during which my dad got his boss' Omni whenever we needed a car. Since he moved over to the private sector we longer had a car to use and being not very well off to buy a brand new car it was decided to purchase a used Maruti Zen or 800. I was merely 9 years old at the time.

My dad, his friend who knew quite a lot about cars and me went to check out various cars in Vashi and Greater Bombay, finally we came across this July 2000 Golden Colour Maruti 800 run about 12k kms. The car looked almost new, good tyres, just a few scratches here and there, even our neighbors thought it was a new car when we got it home.

The suspicion arouse when we noticed the Owner's Manual was missing, being a Newbie and probably in the excitement of finding a near new car on the used market got the better of them and they also forgot to check the manual. Dad called up the dealer and said he forgot to give the manual and it's at his shop and we can collect it whenever we want. A couple of weeks later we had gone to Bombay and collected the manual and on coming home we realized why the dealer "forgot" to give it to us, according to the manual the car was last serviced at 14k kms at the authorized service station around 4 or 6 months back (the car had 12k on the odo when we bought it). He probably rolled back the odometer by a few thousand kms for the extra 10-20k he could make off of it. We learnt our lesson and moved on. We didn't go the used route after that.
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Old 7th June 2016, 11:01   #72
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

I have come to know of this 'brilliant' strategy used by a dealer / person. Came to know of this when I was getting a car from true value. The manager told me this.
You get a general idea of how much a car has run by looking at the service history and the tyre age. Can you circumvent these? Yes you can.

One of his customer has come in to buy a used swift. Since he couldnt source it, the customer went with a dealer. the car has 40,000 something in the odometer. The customer takes the car but after running a while, the turbo fails. On checking, the MASS found that the car had run more than a lakh forty thousand kilometers.

What the previous owner had done - Changed the first set of tyres at around 40,000 KM. Did not throw away the tyre, kept it safe. The last service was done around 40,000 KM at MASS. Never took the car to MASS for service again.
When it was time for sale, revert the odometer, put the first set of tyres and the car now looks genuine.

The customer it seems had taken the car to MASS for inspection, but they did not entertain them. Once a car was brought in by a customer and dealer for inspection. The SA checked the history and found issues which were told to the customer and the sale got cancelled. Seems like the dealer came and assaulted the SA for telling the truth. After which the particular MASS does not entertain such requests.

So, trust your gut feel. If there is a long gap for service, then sense something wrong. And if you need to check the service history, go to the center alone and get the information. They gave me all the information I asked for when I went in alone. Also, when I was looking for a premium car for my friend who was on a budget, 80% of the cars (Corollas, Civics) had their meter tampered! And its so difficult to senese the age of a Toyota Car. A 1.7lakh run corolla was showing 60k in Odo and there was nothing in the car that cried out that the vehicle had run so much. This too from a dealer who claimed to be an old timer in the auto scene here.
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Old 7th June 2016, 11:51   #73
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

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Originally Posted by glenmz View Post
So, trust your gut feel. If there is a long gap for service, then sense something wrong.
Actually the problem here is that many times the dealer would cover up for the long gap saying that the owner was out of India or that he got another car and never used it because of which he is looking to sell it now. We can however argue that the car should have still been serviced on the time period even if it wasn't used but how many people would actually say that to the dealer and how many dealers will actually agree to it? IMHO, getting a good pre used car is nothing short of good luck.
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Old 7th June 2016, 12:08   #74
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

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Originally Posted by glenmz View Post
I
One of his customer has come in to buy a used swift. Since he couldnt source it, the customer went with a dealer. the car has 40,000 something in the odometer. The customer takes the car but after running a while, the turbo fails. On checking, the MASS found that the car had run more than a lakh forty thousand kilometers.
I was just wondering, how did the customer manage to uncover all these facts?
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Old 7th June 2016, 19:10   #75
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Default Re: How to detect *Odometer Fraud*

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Actually the problem here is that many times the dealer would cover up for the long gap saying that the owner was out of India or that he got another car and never used it because of which he is looking to sell it now. We can however argue that the car should have still been serviced on the time period even if it wasn't used but how many people would actually say that to the dealer and how many dealers will actually agree to it? IMHO, getting a good pre used car is nothing short of good luck.
Totally agree. Luck and a lot of ground work. There are time when we get a lot frustrated by all the running around. And at times, you like the car so much that you let go those red flags.

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I was just wondering, how did the customer manage to uncover all these facts?
As per the manager, they read the ECU records. Not sure how true this is.
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