Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 7th April 2014, 07:35   #151
Senior - BHPian
 
dark.knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: India
Posts: 1,115
Thanked: 2,944 Times
Default Re: Odd issue with my Maruti Esteem VXI BSII 2003

Quote:
Originally Posted by reubensm View Post
The car is old but we love it and plan to keep it as a second car, that's why we are bent on fixing it up.
Any car that reaches double digits in age will throw up some tricky issues now and then, irrespective of distance driven. This problem could've been sorted long ago but for the careless workshop guys who do not want to keep it for a day to sort through its issues. From what has been described, it seems like a battery/power supply related issue so I'll get to the basics. Using a multimeter check the voltage of the battery when engine is idling, then increase the rev count to 2000 rpm for about a minute, check the voltage again.. ideally it should be 13v or nearabouts. Also check if the alternator is making any whining noise, if it does then its bearings are worn and it'll soon be asunder.

A fading alternator may give out issues unpredictably and has to be checked over a day, so find a place with patience this time. Also recommend NOT to lubricate any part of the steering/drive assembly. These parts take in grease and not oil which can easily flow into sensitive electricals and spoil them.
dark.knight is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th April 2014, 15:17   #152
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 4
Thanked: 2 Times
Default Re: Odd issue with my Maruti Esteem VXI BSII 2003

[quote=dark.knight;3407212]if the alternator is making any whining noise, if it does then its bearings are worn and it'll soon be asunder.

A fading alternator may give out issues unpredictably and has to be checked over a day[quote]

Thanks, will check the voltages. Also can you tell me how to check for the whining noise from the alternator. Can you give me a comparison with some usual sounds as a guideline?
reubensm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2014, 11:13   #153
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Gurgaon,N.Delhi
Posts: 458
Thanked: 117 Times
Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

Hi.

I recently bought a linea emotion diesel, used, mid showing 48,000.

The car's alternator's pulley broke off last wednesday. I had to get the alternator replaced.

Now, on Monday, I drove the car for about 15 kms. Thereafter, parked the car outside a school, in the sun.

When I cam back, about an hour later, the car started normally, but immediately fluttered and died. At the same time, the mid started showing check engine light.

The car had to be towed to Torque fiat, gurgaon.

The people there diagnosed it as failed alternator, and replaced it. But the problem persisted. Then they attached the diagnostic tool, and told me that the fault codes identified were: EGR failed, ECU fault, mass filter error.

My query is, what could the reason be for the stalling of the car after it starts absolutely fine.
deepfusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2014, 11:22   #154
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: India
Posts: 9,298
Thanked: 13,060 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepfusion View Post
Then they attached the diagnostic tool, and told me that the fault codes identified were: EGR failed, ECU fault, mass filter error.

My query is, what could the reason be for the stalling of the car after it starts absolutely fine.
Can we get the codes that were registered by the ECU?

Stalling can be due low fuel supply also or a EGR valve open more than required in idle setting, air flow issue.

Anurag.
a4anurag is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2014, 12:31   #155
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Gurgaon,N.Delhi
Posts: 458
Thanked: 117 Times
Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

I will call them and try getting the codes.
deepfusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2014, 14:31   #156
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Gurgaon,N.Delhi
Posts: 458
Thanked: 117 Times
Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

the fault code generated by the diagnostic tool is P02146-condenser voltage present
deepfusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2014, 15:25   #157
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: India
Posts: 9,298
Thanked: 13,060 Times
Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepfusion View Post
When I cam back, about an hour later, the car started normally, but immediately fluttered and died. At the same time, the mid started showing check engine light. My query is, what could the reason be for the stalling of the car after it starts absolutely fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepfusion View Post
the fault code generated by the diagnostic tool is P02146-condenser voltage present
For that code given by you, it relates to Fuel Injector circuit problem.

Attaching two screen shots of the same:

1) Searched the code for an answer in the Torque PRO App:
"My Car Won't Start" | What To Do-screenshot_20140409151708.png

2) DTC Search website gave this answer:
"My Car Won't Start" | What To Do-untitled.jpg

What does Fiat have to say for this issue?

Anurag.
a4anurag is online now   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2014, 10:16   #158
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Gurgaon,N.Delhi
Posts: 458
Thanked: 117 Times
Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

Hi Anurag. Thanks for deciphering the code for me.

THat was indeed helpful. Withe the information that you provided, I countered Fiat A.S.S's Gen. Mgr, to which he replied that they had tried everything, but nothing was working.

He further informed that the codes related to the ECU failure and not fuel injector circuit.

He went on to say that they had tried another linea's ecu in mine and everything was working perfectly.

So, I could not argue more.
deepfusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2014, 11:33   #159
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: India
Posts: 9,298
Thanked: 13,060 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepfusion View Post

He further informed that the codes related to the ECU failure and not fuel injector circuit.

He went on to say that they had tried another linea's ecu in mine and everything was working perfectly.
If the manager is saying that the code is not of fuel injector, then what is it according to their ECU Scanner? Do you have a picture of the error that is appearing up on their screen?

And as you just said, your car worked fine with another Linea's ECU so is he trying to say that your cars ECU could need replacement? Or can their engineers solve the issue without an ECU change?

Anurag.
a4anurag is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2014, 17:04   #160
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Gurgaon,N.Delhi
Posts: 458
Thanked: 117 Times
Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
If the manager is saying that the code is not of fuel injector, then what is it according to their ECU Scanner? Do you have a picture of the error that is appearing up on their screen?

And as you just said, your car worked fine with another Linea's ECU so is he trying to say that your cars ECU could need replacement? Or can their engineers solve the issue without an ECU change?

Anurag.
During the intervening period, I had a word with teh gm of the A.S.S. who told me that an ecu replacement along with some component in the key mechanism, inside the steering would need to be replaced. Cost involved-25000
deepfusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2014, 18:19   #161
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,956
Thanked: 5,882 Times
Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepfusion View Post
Hi Anurag. Thanks for deciphering the code for me.

THat was indeed helpful. Withe the information that you provided, I countered Fiat A.S.S's Gen. Mgr, to which he replied that they had tried everything, but nothing was working.

He further informed that the codes related to the ECU failure and not fuel injector circuit.

He went on to say that they had tried another linea's ecu in mine and everything was working perfectly.

So, I could not argue more.
Remarkable story. A P2146 is a pretty common codes on diesels. What is essentially means is that one of the injectors is not working correctly. There are several possibilities, the injector itself, the wiring harness or the connectors.

It's very easy to check, you need to take the connectors of the injectors and the measure the resistance of each injector. I'm not sure for Fiat but typically resistance tends to be very low, less than 1 ohm. If you find one with a higher resistance, replace it.

Sometimes the higher resistance only manifest itself when the injectors are hot, so testing after you have just shut down the engine is advisable, but be careful, there are a lot of hot parts around!

Alternatively, it could be a fault in the harness or electrical connectors. Check for visual damage, clean all connectors, both side and reset everything and see what happens.

I am always very suspicious of mechanics that claim the ECU needs replacing. Admittedly, it does happen but it is very rare indeed for the ECU to develop problems. Its nearly always a sensor or a simple electrical fault.

So all in all, difficult to assess. I would try and have them redo the readout of the tests and demand to be present so you can see yourself what codes get thrown.

Good luck

Jeroen
Jeroen is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2014, 19:43   #162
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Gurgaon,N.Delhi
Posts: 458
Thanked: 117 Times
Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Remarkable story. A P2146 is a pretty common codes on diesels. What is essentially means is that one of the injectors is not working correctly. There are several possibilities, the injector itself, the wiring harness or the connectors.

It's very easy to check, you need to take the connectors of the injectors and the measure the resistance of each injector. I'm not sure for Fiat but typically resistance tends to be very low, less than 1 ohm. If you find one with a higher resistance, replace it.

Sometimes the higher resistance only manifest itself when the injectors are hot, so testing after you have just shut down the engine is advisable, but be careful, there are a lot of hot parts around!

Alternatively, it could be a fault in the harness or electrical connectors. Check for visual damage, clean all connectors, both side and reset everything and see what happens.

I am always very suspicious of mechanics that claim the ECU needs replacing. Admittedly, it does happen but it is very rare indeed for the ECU to develop problems. Its nearly always a sensor or a simple electrical fault.

So all in all, difficult to assess. I would try and have them redo the readout of the tests and demand to be present so you can see yourself what codes get thrown.

Good luck

Jeroen
With the inputs provided by you, I countered the gm of A.S.S. he listened to the logic, and then told me that they had replced the ecu with the ecu of another linea and the car worked fine. If what we are saying is true, the second ecu should not have worked.

Can that be the case?
deepfusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2014, 19:48   #163
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,956
Thanked: 5,882 Times
Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepfusion View Post
With the inputs provided by you, I countered the gm of A.S.S. he listened to the logic, and then told me that they had replced the ecu with the ecu of another linea and the car worked fine. If what we are saying is true, the second ecu should not have worked.

Can that be the case?
Yes, but then again, we'll never know if there was something else going on.
Like I said, trouble shooting the original code is simple, maybe 20 minute job if that. Maybe it was just a wonky dirty connector they fixed it and decided they wanted to charge you some more.

If they did see that P2146 code, and nothing else, it would be extremely unlikely to be the ECU. Problems with the ECU throw different codes.

So, if they agree it was a P2146 agree to pay 20 minutes of work, nothing else or they need to come up with a better explanation.

Did they give you the old ECU back?

It really all depends on how trustworthy you find these guys. Are they genuine, or they taking you for a ride? hard to tell I'm afraid

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 12th April 2014 at 19:49.
Jeroen is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2014, 19:50   #164
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Gurgaon,N.Delhi
Posts: 458
Thanked: 117 Times
Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

The car is still with them. They say they have ordered for an ecu.
deepfusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th April 2014, 10:38   #165
BHPian
 
black_rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 269
Thanked: 177 Times
Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

My 2002 Santro ZipPlus, with Amaron Flo battery (30 months old, it has a 48 month warranty), has been giving me starting troubles recently. Its not really bad, but it sure is a problem that needs to be addressed soon. The car sometimes doesn't start in the first turn of ignition key. I hear a click sound (I suspect this is starter solenoid working), all lights turn off (headlights, cabin lights), but starter motor does not crank. Sometimes it takes 3-4 attempts, sometimes just one. It seems random to me. Has been like this for one or two months.

Service center guys wanted to take apart starter motor, without even checking the battery. I walked out of there. Can experts suggest me a course of action, what I should do to get to the real problem and not get fleeced in the process?
black_rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Cayenne" we "XC-eed" in our "Endeavour" to "Safari"? Taking powerful metal off-road SS-Traveller 4x4 Excursions 55 10th November 2016 22:56
Car won't start. Guess why? A rat chewed up the fuel line supremeBaleno Technical Stuff 54 18th October 2015 13:54
Drunk & Driving? Your car won't start! rishibravo The International Automotive Scene 6 6th December 2013 21:11
help! car won't start vivekiny2k Technical Stuff 10 26th March 2007 21:02
NFS CarBon won't start "NFSE.EXE has encontered a problem & need to close..... unknown Shifting gears 17 7th January 2007 15:29


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 23:10.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks