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Old 30th October 2015, 20:17   #376
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Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

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Originally Posted by sanjeevkanjoor View Post
Thanks ss traveller.But ,can you give me more details on the crank position sensor?
Links to previous discussions on this thread:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post3784140 ("My Car Won't Start" | What To Do)
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post3800590 ("My Car Won't Start" | What To Do)
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post3801350 ("My Car Won't Start" | What To Do)
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Old 9th November 2015, 02:01   #377
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Default Verna 2008 not starting

I have a well maintained Verna CRDi SX 2008.

February last year the engine check light glowed and I had limp mode activated. The car had very mild knocking the past few days, and I was determined to take it for servicing. Just when the engine check light came on, I drove it directly to Hyundai Motor Plaza (HMP COCO A$$).

They reset ECU, insisted on cleaning up fuel tank, decarbonisation, injector cleaning and all the unnecessary things I had been resisting all these years, and I just complied for the first time.

The car came back - no lights, no limp mode. Perfect. But on high acceleration 120km/h, I could hear a faint knocking. Took it multiple times to HMP ASS, but to no avail. Maybe all the service advisors are hard of hearing.

I finally got tired of them, and took car to a car scanning center and thought of geeking out. An error code P1186 (fuel pressure low) was discovered. Armed with the same, I went back to HMP and showed them the same. They blamed it on blah blah, and reset the ECU etc.

Cut to a few days ago. The car is very sparingly used, but I decided to just use it to keep battery in running condition. Cranked the car, and it started with a longer crank than usual.

Took it for a spin, and the VGT made me smile. Came back home, waited for turbo to cool down. Cribbed about someone having occupied the parking that's supposed to be for the Verna. Shut down the car.

Now next morning decided to quickly park the car in its right parking spot. And the car died on me immediately after starting.

Called HMP, and was told they no longer service cars. Having seen the shabby troubleshooting behaviour, and previous experiences, decided to try a neighbourhood FNG that works on all cars, including many of ours.

He went about troubleshoot, could bring about the car to life once or twice. But eventually died on him too (full day invested).

Next day after a couple of hours under my prying eyes, the lead mechanic is convinced that the 'diesel fuel filter assembly' (Rs. 18,000) is the culprit. A lot of fuel pipe sucking and blowing was involved. Image:





Having faced a similar condition 7-8 years ago on another car, I was hoping the culprit would the fuel pump (Rs. 2,000, inside the tank) or the fuel sender (accompanying part to the gauge?) Image:



Since gauge was functioning well,


Current situation: car is lying half open in my drive way. I am tempted to drag it to hyundai, but Diwali holidays and my own conviction to find an answer brings me here.

Details:

- 2008 CRDi Verna @ 55,000
- Battery replaced 2 years ago - checked yesterday in excellent condition.
- Car serviced 6 months ago (run 2k since)
- No other problems
- P1186 error last year, no engine check light/limp mode since then
- Fuel tank wasn't particularly full, but in the checking testing by FNG lots of diesel (from a reputed COCO) was poured in and sucked out.
- Last couple of cranks were longer than usual, but nothing I would call as inordinately long. Also since car was sparingly used, I thought it was the battery not being at its prime.
- I do suspect that the car may have been used by driver on low fuel a few times, and I know that causes problems with fuel pump, but filter?

I seek thoughts on what my action plan should be? I would prefer using FNG because I have been less than impressed with Hyundai.

Thoughts? Direction?

Note from Support Team: Please SEARCH before creating new threads on topics which've been discussed extensively before! Thanks!

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Last edited by Gannu_1 : 9th November 2015 at 08:35.
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Old 9th November 2015, 07:46   #378
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Default Re: Verna 2008 not starting

Fuel filter assembly for 18k! If I remember right, for diesel vehicles the fuel filter needs to be replaced along with the oil filter, right? That makes it a pretty expensive car!
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Old 9th November 2015, 08:54   #379
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Default Re: Verna 2008 not starting

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Originally Posted by barcode View Post
I finally got tired of them, and took car to a car scanning center and thought of geeking out. An error code P1186 (fuel pressure low) was discovered. Armed with the same, I went back to HMP and showed them the same. They blamed it on blah blah, and reset the ECU etc.

.
I doubt very much that resetting the ECU will solve this problem.

If you look up P1186 you will find something like this:

http://www.autohex.net/dtc-help/hyun...13/4554/P1186/

So the possible causes are:
Fuel pressure regulator valve
(open stuck)
Rail pressure sensor
(Output fixed at high voltage line)

So that's what you need to concentrate on if the P1186 is still present. A small word of caution. I just googled Hyandai P1186 and that's what comes up. In practice these codes can have sometimes different meaning depending on model, make, year etc. So ideally you want to get the meaning of the code and possibile causes from the correct workshop manaul. But I can tell you one thing, any low pressure code on any modern diesel or petrol car will have similar possible causes; it will be about some regulator or sensor most likely.

Checking filters and pump is a good idea, no matter what, obviously. The symptons of a slightly longer crank can be related to the check and or regulator valve built in the fuel system. Although in this case it is probably related to the P1186 cause.

When the engine is stopped the valve keeps the fuel system pressurized. If it leaks, fuel seaps back into the tank. So it takes a bit of cranking to get the fuel line full and pressurised again.

After all the cleaning of filters I would run the engine and check for codes, see what comes up.

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 9th November 2015 at 08:59.
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Old 9th November 2015, 10:37   #380
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Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

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Originally Posted by moeinuk View Post
Now there hasn't been another Alto LX in his garage in the last two days. So he gave me the car yesterday and said 'Drive over the weekend and bring it back on Monday. Will arrange to get it (ECU/PCM/Whatever) checked by then.
What is the latest on this issue? Did they manage to diagnose the issue?



We too have a similar issue with my BIL's Ertiga. Once in a while, it just decides to stop cranking when we turn on the ignition key. But, after taking the key out, opening & closing the doors etc, it starts up (exact sequence not known). Could live with it since it used to happen occasionally, but it decided to become stubborn last night. It just didn't want to start in spite of all tricks (taking out the ignition keys, audio off, AC off, door opening act etc). Push start works well, hence there is no issue with fuel flow IMO.

Based on some posts here on TBHP, I guess an ECU reset need to be done by removing the battery leads for 15-30 mins (yet to try it - since the car is not home).

Anyone else facing similar issues of their Ertiga not willing to start up randomly? Pl. comment.

PS: Battery seem to be fine. All operations working normally. Haven't got the voltage checked though. BTW car is back from service just a week ago. They had checked & rectified (done some wiring changes? coil was not replaced as per the bill) this issue as per my nephew who had gone for the service.
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Old 9th November 2015, 10:49   #381
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Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

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Originally Posted by null View Post
What is the latest on this issue? Did they manage to diagnose the issue?
They checked. They said they couldn't find any fault. However the Mobil was down. Seems the last time I took it for paid service, to a bona fide maruti service station in August 2015, they didn't do anything about it despite charging me in the bill.

No trouble since then. The car has been running smoothly.

Last edited by Jaggu : 9th November 2015 at 11:05. Reason: Fixing Quotes.
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Old 9th November 2015, 11:11   #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by null View Post
We too have a similar issue with my BIL's Ertiga. Once in a while, it just decides to stop cranking when we turn on the ignition key. But, after taking the key out, opening & closing the doors etc, it starts up (exact sequence not known). Could live with it since it used to happen occasionally, but it decided to become stubborn last night. It just didn't want to start in spite of all tricks (taking out the ignition keys, audio off, AC off, door opening act etc). Push start works well, hence there is no issue with fuel flow IMO.

Anyone else facing similar issues of their Ertiga not willing to start up randomly? Pl. comment.

PS: Battery seem to be fine. All operations working normally.
Hello. Now , I don't own a Ertiga but would like to give my thoughts/opinion on this issue.

Going through some diagnostic videos on YouTube, I came across a similar issue with a Volkswagen Jetta in the US. When the door was opened immediately after starting, it would die on him. It would work fine if the door switch was held in the door shut position etc.

On further diagnosis, it turned out to be the fuel pump relay. I was surprised since I thought how can the " door opening act " cause such an intermittent issue with the starting of the car.
The guy used a pretty expensive diagnostic computer and a host of different methods to confirm his diagnosis.

Now I know this isn't a VW and the way the systems are designed to work in the US are totally different but maybe you can check the relays and confirm/disprove this. Maybe use a AC relay to check before buying a new one.

I may be thinking along the wrong lines here. If so, experts please correct me!
Hope this helps.

Last edited by hrbheda : 9th November 2015 at 11:13.
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Old 13th November 2015, 16:59   #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrbheda View Post
Going through some diagnostic videos on YouTube, I came across a similar issue with a Volkswagen Jetta in the US.
Sorry for quoting my own post but wanted to share the link for that video.

This is part 1 :

Part 2 and 3 are listed in the playlist of the above video!
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Old 24th November 2015, 14:28   #384
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Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

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Originally Posted by RaguHolla View Post
Today checked fuses diagram again (marked in Glow box). Tried removing and plugging in relay, same results. Went to FNG with relay, he was kind enough to provide alternative relay. With new relay in fuel-pump primed!

With two, three tries engine came-up! All in all for Rs. 100 spent!

Lesson: Keep spare relay in glow box at-least for fuel pump and ignition!
Update with above incident.

I had two breakdown recently! Damn. Both time I had family to endure pain of stuck in no-mans land. First incident happened 11/11/2015, after Kollegal. Fuel pump switched off causing major scare... I was at 80km with array of vehicles following me. And Engine turns off!

What ever I do, I couldn't get fuel pump on. It was towed to Kollegal, local mechanic and electrician did try every thing. After four hours, finally they decided to open up fuel tank to see fuel pump.When car is put on ramp, fuel pump started working!

We went for test drive. Tried going over potholes at speed, na da. Fuelpump had no issue. I was clueless, so was mechanic.

Yesterday we were returning from native(Kundapur). Same issue, its early morning, stopped 500 mtr from home, at speed less than 20km. Well again all rituals! Even hitting once or twice to tank below (as instructed by Ford RSA over phone). Na da!

So, towed again to FNG (because Ford service center is 120 km away). The FNG person used better common-sense and found issue! Of all things can go wrong, the issue was due to relay socket which was loose (for given relay to sit tightly). Meaning, the "female" sockets were little big to relay that is sitting there. Due to various factor relay becomes loose!

This explains various "magic" that solved earlier issue also. I guess mostly various pressure pressing of relay into socket made it "work". Currently its "fixed" in crude method.
Now I need to go to FNG or ford to get this socket replaced. If I understand correctly whole wiring harness required to be changed at Ford end, which I don't find economical. Any suggestions?
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Old 16th December 2015, 07:56   #385
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Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

I have a weird problem with my Nano. Cold starts in the mornings or evenings are a one crank affair, but if I switch off the engine in the middle of the drive, it sometimes takes around 5 to 6 attempts before the engine cranks. Turning the key doesn't produce any sound.

There have been no warning lights.

The fuel pump had been replaced at 40k kms, last year. Battery is the original that came with the car and is 3.5 years old.

The technician says the battery is gone.
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Old 16th December 2015, 18:16   #386
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Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

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Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
I have a weird problem with my Nano. Cold starts in the mornings or evenings are a one crank affair, but if I switch off the engine in the middle of the drive, it sometimes takes around 5 to 6 attempts before the engine cranks. Turning the key doesn't produce any sound.

There have been no warning lights.

The fuel pump had been replaced at 40k kms, last year. Battery is the original that came with the car and is 3.5 years old.

The technician says the battery is gone.
It could be the battery. Get it checked at a battery shop
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Old 16th December 2015, 18:38   #387
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Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

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Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
...if I switch off the engine in the middle of the drive, it sometimes takes around 5 to 6 attempts before the engine cranks. Turning the key doesn't produce any sound.
Get your starter motor serviced, and the solenoid repaired/replaced. The solenoid probably isn't operating when hot, and/or the starter motor brushes are worn down.
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Old 16th December 2015, 19:15   #388
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Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Get your starter motor serviced, and the solenoid repaired/replaced. The solenoid probably isn't operating when hot, and/or the starter motor brushes are worn down.
It may be the starter motor, or more probability of the solenoid starter switch defect. Next time it happens check
. Does the starter click or chatter when it does not start. If so it may be the solenoid.
. Do the lights dim out and the there is no noise from the starter. Then the motor commutator may be dirty or worn out.

Either way it is best to take the motor/starter assembly out and get it checked by a competent auto electrician.
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Old 16th December 2015, 19:23   #389
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"before engine cranks" .... Or fires?

If it does not cranks it is electrical or starter. But if it cranks but does not fire then it could be fuel pump or some engine sensor or ignition system.
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Old 16th December 2015, 22:31   #390
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It doesn't crank. When it does, it starts in one crank.

The service advisor confirmed that he could reproduce the issue by revving the engine high, and the issue went away when he tested with a different battery.
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