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Old 19th November 2013, 20:10   #91
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Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

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Originally Posted by yazeen View Post
...issue is with the distributor...
Checked with a MGP parts dealer, he said a new distributor ( cap and rotor assembly ) will cost me 4K.
Should I go for it?
Distributors per se don't go bad. It's usually the rotor or cap, or the HT wires, or the ignition coil, or even the spark plugs that are at fault. Get a good electrician to check each of these components, and identify which one is the source of your 'no spaaarks saaar!' situation. Complete distributor changes are rarely required, and still may not solve your problem. I'd suspect a faulty ignition coil first, which heats up and shorts out after driving some distance.
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Originally Posted by yazeen View Post
...friend and I were driving down for a drink...
We push the car near a parking lot and then still end up going for a drink...
Maybe your car just doesn't like you drinking when you're driving it?

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 19th November 2013 at 20:12.
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Old 20th November 2013, 12:41   #92
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Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
IMO, all Hyundai (and any other manufacturer's) ASCs are downright incompetent when it comes to simple things like servicing a self starter. Their policy as well as training is to replace rather than repair. Hence, a commutator that's slightly worn out will mean the whole armature is changed. Carbon brushes are not replaced, the whole plate is chucked out and a new one put in. In extremis, you are advised to replace the whole starter motor.

I therefore much prefer visiting my FNG (Friendly Neighborhood Garage (FNG) - Imtiaz & Ayub (New Delhi)) for such jobs. The bill is far more reasonable, and the resultant outcome is as good as it gets.

The final choice, however, lies with you.
Interesting problem.
Since the aforementioned issue and its apparent resolution by Ayub, plus replacing the battery as an added insurance in February itself, the tell-tale signs of the starter motor giving way resurfaced.
This Sunday, wifey reported the car was hesitant to startup after a prolonged period of being idle. Thereafter, I confirmed that even after 7-8 hours of standing, it had starting problems early in the morning, but once it gets going , it purrs very nicely.

Now, I dont doubt Ayub's skill, but same cannot be said for quality of carbon brushes that were used. Or has the OEM starter motor finally given way. In a bit of a quandary, as I really don't want to immediately cough up the 2~3 K needed for a new motor at Hyundai - and I don't know where I can get good brushes for this motor. It is definitely not a user serviceable part - as it resides in the depths of the engine bay close to the exhaust manifold.
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Old 20th November 2013, 13:08   #93
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Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

Quote:
Originally Posted by joybhowmik View Post
...the tell-tale signs of the starter motor giving way resurfaced.
...hesitant to startup after a prolonged period of being idle. Thereafter, I confirmed that even after 7-8 hours of standing, it had starting problems early in the morning, but once it gets going , it purrs very nicely.
...quality of carbon brushes that were used.
Winter's here, and startup issues are common. Usual causes:
1. Battery: Check water level, tighten cables, check gravity. Try jump starting to see if the engine fires.
2. Starter: Carbon brushes. I agree that the brushes supplied may not have been of superior quality. Might need a check. Take a video of what happens during a morning start and post it here (or show to Ayub). Need to figure out if the battery is at fault or the starter motor.
Also as a general pointer:
3. HT electrics: Check HT cables and condition of spark plugs.
4. Newer cars: Check MAF sensor.

Troubleshooting the electrical system is outlined in Post #3 at the beginning of the thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Step 2: Checking the Electrical System

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Old 6th December 2013, 16:01   #94
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Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Winter's here, and startup issues are common. Usual causes:
1. Battery: Check water level, tighten cables, check gravity. Try jump starting to see if the engine fires.
2. Starter: Carbon brushes. I agree that the brushes supplied may not have been of superior quality. Might need a check. Take a video of what happens during a morning start and post it here (or show to Ayub). Need to figure out if the battery is at fault or the starter motor.
Also as a general pointer:
3. HT electrics: Check HT cables and condition of spark plugs.
4. Newer cars: Check MAF sensor.

Troubleshooting the electrical system is outlined in Post #3 at the beginning of the thread:

[/center]
It still has me flummoxed. And worse.

Problem
When the car is warm (preferably after having put in at least 4-5 km, of spirited driving), if you turn off the ignition, and try starting the car, it will just tick over and die. Try again, and it will roar into life, and putter on effortlessly - as if nothing had happened.

Background
After a self overhaul in Feb, 2013, and a new Exide battery, I thought I had seen the end of this problem on our 2003 Santro AT. Unfortunately not.
At Ayub's
I tried showing the problem to Ayub's guy yesterday - and could not replicate it. Anyway, brought the car back to Ayub today - and luckily after a few turns of the key, the problem clearly showed. Ayub ruled out the self (after all he had overhauled it 10 months ago), and also ruled out the Alternator (charging voltage measured @ 13.9 V). He recommended a battery replacement under warranty.
At Exide service center, Okhla
So I took the car off to the Exide service at Okhla (COCO). The guy there measures the voltages. Then he opens the water inlets to measure the sp. gravity and remarks 'is mein bahut zyada paani hai'. As-if... Anyway I tell him in my meekest tone, the battery is as-bought, so the water must be from the Exide company. He vehemently disagees and measures the sp. gravity in all the six cells - a very consistent 1.20 in all six! Then he fills out a form and asks me to visit the service engineer.
I tell the engineer, that the battery needs replacing , he beams and says the battery is in perfect condition, and that my self or alternator need service.
I pretend ignorance of the technicalities instead of outright disagreement, and get Ayub on the line. A war of words ensues between them. The end result is , Ayub tells me to get the battery inspected/replaced by the Exide dealer instead of the company.
The engineer also points me to the fine print on the warranty card specifying an alternator voltage of 14.2 V~14.4 V. I think of telling him, that 2% voltage drop in alternator charging voltage should not be that big a deal, but then I zip it, and start back for home.

While driving home and then at home
It occurs to me, that the field report of the battery was filed away by the engineer, and I was not provided a copy. Moreover if it had excess water, should it not have made for sp. gravity readings out of range?
It further occurs to me that getting a reading of 1.20 in all 6 cells is a bit of a hard to believe. Unless the Hydrometer was screwed up, or the readings were screwed up (intentionally?)
Anyway I don't have a copy, so there's nothing I have to form the basis of a formal dispute.
Then again, Ayub saw 13.9 V steady charging voltage. Was his multimeter in error?
I decide not to do anything, until I take a few measurements of the voltages and if possible get the sp. gravity rechecked independently.
Back at home:
1) Resting voltage at terminals : 12.59 V
2) After starting the car, charging voltage at terminals in steady state: 14.05 (reasonably close to Ayub's 13.9 V but still not in the ideal band 14.2V~14.4 V)
3) Got the wifey to recreate the problem by cranking the engine a few times. When the problem does occur (on crank), the voltage drops to 8.99 V ~ 9.29 V for a fraction of a second. Then the engine roars into life and the voltage goes to 14.05 V
4) When the problem does not occur (on crank) , the voltage drops to 11.40 V for a fraction of a second. Then the engine roars into life and the voltage goes to 14.05 V


Questions
1) Where in South Delhi can I get the sp. gravity checked reliably? I prefer not to depend on Exide for this measurement - just to rule out the obvious conflict of interest w.r.t. warranty replacement cost.
2) Does my alternator need a service?
3) Will 'charging' the battery up at the local dealer for a full 24 hours help?
4) Is the self really OK?
5) I don't think there's anything else that's the issue - but does anything else seem likely to be the culprit?

Last edited by joybhowmik : 6th December 2013 at 16:06. Reason: Added a final question
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Old 6th December 2013, 17:15   #95
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Default Re: "My Car Won't Start" | What To Do

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Originally Posted by joybhowmik View Post
It still has me flummoxed.

When the problem does occur (on crank), the voltage drops to 8.99 V ~ 9.29 V for a fraction of a second. Then the engine roars into life and the voltage goes to 14.05 V
4) When the problem does not occur (on crank) , the voltage drops to 11.40 V for a fraction of a second. Then the engine roars into life and the voltage goes to 14.05 V
4) Is the self really OK?
You've found your own answer. It's the self starter motor shorting out at times. Ask Ayub to take it out and check again. If he's reluctant, get him to talk to me.
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Old 9th December 2013, 15:07   #96
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Default Santro in trouble : Stalls & refuses to start

My Hyundai santro coughed and stalled on the way to work today. Some 3kms into the drive from home.
Refused to restart on two attempts. I pulled out the key from the ignition and then tried again, and it took 2 tries for it to finally start. Seemed to cough a bit but then made it to work without further incident.
Point is, this is a friends car i've borrowed for a couple of days. The car has been fine till now so am a bit curious to whats happening. Fuel filter? plugs? air filter?... i dunno.

I spoke to my friend and apparently the mech had said the battery might need replacing. However a weak battery will not lead to a car stopping dead mid drive would it?

Anyone experienced this before on their santros or any other car?
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Old 9th December 2013, 15:15   #97
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Default re: Santro in trouble : Stalls & refuses to start

It could also be water in the fuel tank. Please ensure that you tank up from a good place and that there are no gaps/ openings in the fuel flap/ lid.
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Old 9th December 2013, 15:34   #98
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Default re: Santro in trouble : Stalls & refuses to start

I had a similar experience with my two different Santro's a few years back. They would just stop and after a few tries would start and move on. After a lot of deliberations, the water body was found to be malfunctioning. The water body was replaced and the cars never had any such issue thereafter. But this was after both the cars had done 40,000kms approximately. Had it been for a water in the fuel tank, it would have not started at all.
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Old 9th December 2013, 15:56   #99
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Default re: Santro in trouble : Stalls & refuses to start

I faced something similar 3 years ago in my Santro Xing. I was driving on the Gurgaon expressway at decent speed and the car suddenly died. All the electricals/electronics were on but the fuel supply had been cut. It was a scary experience. I pulled over, made a few calls to RSA and asked them to send a service car immediately. While waiting for the service vehicle, decided to crank again (after about 15 minutes from when I stalled). It started fine but I decided to crawl to my office as I didn't want to take the risk of car dying at high-speed.

The initial suspect was fuel-pump thus, I took it to the service station on the next morning. Everything from fuel-pump to fuel-line was checked and the real culprit was poor quality of fuel. I had tanked up from an IOC outlet an hour before the incident and that fuel had some sediments which clogged the fuel pump. They cleaned the tank and then added the fuel again. Nothing was changed but I never faced that problem again. Even though I don't drive it much, I still have that Santro (10.5 years old) with 1.3 lacs on the odo and with original fuel pump.

EDIT: It was done within a few hours (2-3 hours). What worked for me was that I got the car serviced just a day prior to the incident and fortunately for me, I received a feedback call right when I was waiting for the service vehicle. So, it got escalated to the highest level within the dealer and Hyundai. They didn't charge for the entire check-up. The onus was on them to prove that my car stalled due to poor quality of fuel than poor servicing. No wonder, I am a fan of Hyundai's service.

Last edited by Biraj : 9th December 2013 at 16:13.
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Old 9th December 2013, 16:00   #100
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Default re: Santro in trouble : Stalls & refuses to start

Yes, i suspect its the clogging of the fuel lines/pump too. I cant imagine a weak battery will cause this.
Is this fuel line cleaning a tedious business or will the service centre be able to turn it around in one day?
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Old 9th December 2013, 22:33   #101
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Default re: Santro in trouble : Stalls & refuses to start

@OP, bad fuel seems to be the case. Before returning the car, please clean the fuel filter.

Quote:
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... the water body was found to be malfunctioning. The water body was replaced and the cars never had any such issue thereafter....
Hi,

Can you please elaborate on the 'water body'?
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Old 9th December 2013, 22:47   #102
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Default re: Santro in trouble : Stalls & refuses to start

Fuel filter clogging appears to be the causative factor. As the engine is getting cranked the battery can not be the culprit.
BTB, I also want to know more about the water body.
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Old 9th December 2013, 23:05   #103
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Default re: Santro in trouble : Stalls & refuses to start

In my case, they changed the fuel pump first and the problem occurred again. Then they found that fuel pump relay was gone and replaced that too. I paid almost 5K for the fuel pump replacement and I don't think it was required. I suspect they were just trying there luck. I suggest the following:

1) Clean the tank of water/bad fuel.

2) Change the fuel pump relay.

3) Then only change the pump.
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Old 10th December 2013, 00:20   #104
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Default re: Santro in trouble : Stalls & refuses to start

Quote:
Originally Posted by stormsearcher View Post
Anyone experienced this before on their santros or any other car?
We had faced a similar problem 5 years back with our Santro. The issue was due to a faulty ignition coil. The issue never reoccured after replacing it.
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Old 10th December 2013, 10:11   #105
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Default re: Santro in trouble : Stalls & refuses to start

I had felt it could be the starter motor which was on its way out, cause the car showed reluctance to crank up. However since the coughing and stalling happened, i believe the fuel line could be the culprit.
will need to do this step wise. Is there a good santro mech around or shud i just take it to the hyundai service centre?
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