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Old 19th March 2013, 14:26   #1
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Default What to do if remote key fob fails and vehicle is equipped with Start-Stop button?

We read a lot about remote-key-less go / Start-Stop button equipped cars etc .

What will happen if the remote key fob or "start-stop" button fails?

I understand that in these cars, you have a mechanical key to open the doors, but the ignition barrel slot for the key is not there. So , if the remote keyfob fails, and one opens the door with the mechanical key, where will he or she insert the mechanical key to start the car?

Conversely, suppose the "Start-Stop" button fails by any chance, then also how does one start the car?

If this happens in the middle of the night on a deserted highway, then what is the solution?

Can OEM's not have a small LED/Diode light on top of the remote key fob which will progressively turn from Green to Yellow and finally to Red as a status report of the remote key fob battery's health?

Over to the guru's at T-Bhp to shed some light on this probelm,if any of them have faced it
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Old 19th March 2013, 14:56   #2
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Default Re: What to do if remote key fob fails and vehicle is equipped with Start-Stop button

That is a very good question you have put there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arjab View Post
Conversely, suppose the "Start-Stop" button fails by any chance, then also how does one start the car?

If this happens in the middle of the night on a deserted highway, then what is the solution?
Start-Stop button failure is just similar to when the ignition switch fails when we start with the key. In both cases we are left stranded. It just can happen in any car, so we cannot blame the cars with the button to start-stop.

Quote:

Can OEM's not have a small LED/Diode light on top of the remote key fob which will progressively turn from Green to Yellow and finally to Red as a status report of the remote key fob battery's health?
This is a really good point . Manufacturers need to look at ways to show the key fob battery level to the users. The least they could make is to have a blinking light when the battery reaches below a certain level, so that we can change them with out being stranded.
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Old 19th March 2013, 15:34   #3
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Default Re: What to do if remote key fob fails and vehicle is equipped with Start-Stop button

BMW has a mode where when you bring the key fob close to some point on the steering column, it is able to sense it and allows an engine start. I guess most cars would have some similar fail-safe built-in.
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Old 19th March 2013, 15:37   #4
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Default Re: What to do if remote key fob fails and vehicle is equipped with Start-Stop button

If I am not mistaken, in GTO's review for the Micra (which also uses a fob) he has tried this by removing the battery from the fob. The car still started. Appears to be fool proof.
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Old 19th March 2013, 16:05   #5
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Default Re: What to do if remote key fob fails and vehicle is equipped with Start-Stop button

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeep108 View Post
BMW has a mode where when you bring the key fob close to some point on the steering column, it is able to sense it and allows an engine start. I guess most cars would have some similar fail-safe built-in.
Sandeep are you referring to a small raised key image on the right side of the steering column ?

-Bhargav
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Old 19th March 2013, 16:25   #6
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Default Re: What to do if remote key fob fails and vehicle is equipped with Start-Stop button

This is a very interesting topic. Infact I didn;t think about this till I saw this topic. I was under the impression that the key is smart and even if it fails there is some way the engine would start with the key inside the vehicle. So, I got back my manual to check on this. Here is what it says ...

"If the battery is weak or the smart key does not work correctly, then you can start the engine by pressing the engine start/stop button with the smart key. The side with the "lock" button (on the keyfob) should contact the engine start/stop button directly. When you press the engine start/stop button directly with the smart key, the smart key should contact the button at a right angle"

I think I should try this out by removing the battery. Also, one thing to note is that you cannot start the engine using the start/stop button if the keyfob in not within the vehicle.

I hope this clarifies.
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Old 19th March 2013, 16:32   #7
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Default Re: What to do if remote key fob fails and vehicle is equipped with Start-Stop button

From my Nissan Micra Review:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
On the keyless entry

- What if the remote key's battery dies out? There is a skeleton key tucked away inside the key fob. This key can be extracted & used if the unit's battery dies out.

Keyless go:

- What if the battery dies out? Well, we tried . We made a Nissan engineer remove the unit's battery. Even then, the ECM detected the presence of the key fob and the engine started.
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Old 19th March 2013, 16:35   #8
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Default Re: What to do if remote key fob fails and vehicle is equipped with Start-Stop button

I can speak for LandRovers and Jags

Under following situations

1. Car is locked and key fob dies for some reason (battery flat or dropped in water or crushed etc)

Use the mechanical pull out key available in the fob to open drivers door. Boot can be opened as well. This does not trigger the alarm system

2. You get in the car and need to press the start button, but fob cannot be detected since it is dead

Place the fob on 3 vertical lines on the steering column (on land rovers) or under the facia near the steering column (on Jags). A transponder (part of IAU: Immobiliser Authorisation Unit) uses induction charging to charge (just enough to work in this instance) and detect the fob to unlock the immobiliser. Press the start button and off you go!

Battery strength monitoring: The immobiliser unit checks for battery strength of the fob in use every time the fob interacts with it. When battery strength reported by fob is below a pre-determined level, the driver is alerted of this using the MID. If proper action is taken and both fobs are used periodically, above situations can be avoided completely.
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Old 19th March 2013, 17:59   #9
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Default Re: What to do if remote key fob fails and vehicle is equipped with Start-Stop button

But what if the start button itself has failed ?
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Old 19th March 2013, 20:50   #10
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Default Re: What to do if remote key fob fails and vehicle is equipped with Start-Stop button

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortis View Post
But what if the start button itself has failed ?
Isn't this akin to the key barrel failing in other models? Maybe not; mechanical parts are known to last longer than electronics. Not too sure on how many cycles they have considered while designing the button?

Quote:
Originally Posted by @Chaand View Post
If I am not mistaken, in GTO's review for the Micra (which also uses a fob) he has tried this by removing the battery from the fob. The car still started. Appears to be fool proof.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
From my Nissan Micra Review:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
- What if the battery dies out? Well, we tried . We made a Nissan engineer remove the unit's battery. Even then, the ECM detected the presence of the key fob and the engine started.
In my Micra, this is not true. I had checked this earlier and wanted to ask about this. This thread made me check the same another time now and the key symbol just blinks on the MID with the battery removed Nothing gets activated. My SA quoted a life of 2 years for the key battery and 650/- for it. So I keep the spare key fob with the battery removed and the test was done using this spare fob.

Either my car or I am missing something or you guys have forgot to remove the other key from the pocket?

On to the main topic. So my solution will be to keep a spare battery for the fob in the dash. You can always enter the car with the mechanical key on the fob. It is a Sony CR2025 3V Lithium Cell. Don't know why Nissan charges 650/- for a replacement. And what if the keys on the fob becomes dead? That situation is being faced by most of the car owners with remote locking. And the only thing I can comment is that the Nissan's fob looks to last a life time. I changed the Nippon's remote lock fob on my Baleno at near to 7 years.

OT: For the key-fob electronic experts: Does the key fob become unusable if I remove and store the battery separately? There seems some coil inside the key-fob; does that require constant charge in any way?
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Old 19th March 2013, 21:13   #11
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgupta View Post
I can speak for LandRovers and Jags

Under following situations

1. Car is locked and key fob dies for some reason (battery flat or dropped in water or crushed etc)

Use the mechanical pull out key available in the fob to open drivers door. Boot can be opened as well. This does not trigger the alarm system

used periodically, above situations can be avoided completely.
The above feature is also available in Toyota Prius.

In addition to that there is a slot just below the steering coloum to insert the key fob and then press the start button to turn the engine on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortis View Post
But what if the start button itself has failed ?
Hope this doesnt happen. If it does happen call tow truck and get it to a authorized dealer for service

Note from the Team-BHP Support: Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another on the same thread.

Last edited by Technocrat : 19th March 2013 at 23:20. Reason: Please read the note in your post, thanks
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Old 19th March 2013, 21:48   #12
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Default Re: What to do if remote key fob fails and vehicle is equipped with Start-Stop button

Well, i was in a similar situation in my Cruze once. The sensor failed to detect the key for some reason. Probably due to some interference. Couldnt have been battery failure bcoz the car was only 3 months old then.

Anyway, this is how you do it in the Cruze. There is a discreet key hole below the hand brake lever handle in the small open compartment. It has a cover which has to be pried open ( I could open it with a ball point pen) You slide your key in and then press the start stop switch. Some sort of bye-pass system. Luckily I could recall what I had read in the manual and didnt get stranded.

Coming to think of it, do the batteries in these keyless entry fobs die out faster? I mean, do they remain on all the time. Or do they get triggered by the sensor in the car when you approach it. Or in other words, are they constantly transmitting some sort of signal while they hang in the key stand at home?

I am sure other cars have some sort of system too which should be mentioned in the owner's manual.

The regular remote lock system in the Scorpio that I had also had a code system. I dont remember the exact method, but as far as I remember, you had to switch the ignition on and let the alarm beep as many times as each digit in your secret code. You have to wait for a few seconds after each digit. Anyone knows this system?

Last edited by SCORPION : 19th March 2013 at 21:56.
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Old 19th March 2013, 23:27   #13
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Default Re: What to do if remote key fob fails and vehicle is equipped with Start-Stop button

Quote:
Originally Posted by thoma View Post
In my Micra, this is not true. I had checked this earlier and wanted to ask about this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
From my Nissan Micra Review:
Correction. There is a workaround for this. The car indeed starts with no battery in the fob. I had been cross checking the owner's manual and found that the fob needs to be touched on to the start/stop button before trying to start. The clutch being depressed, you need to start the engine within 10 seconds of the chime sound produced upon a touch. The car does not sense the fob if it remains in the pocket. I tried it out.

So no worries of key-fob battery dying out and getting stranded on the road unless you seriously damage the key-fob or the car battery dies out or in the worst case scenario, the start-stop button fails. Anyway, kudos to the start/stop technology for adding to the convenience yet with fail-safe workarounds.

Related: (taken from the owner's manual regarding the use and life of the intelligent key-fob)

1) There is an indicator on the MID to show if the intelligent key battery is discharged. Or if the intelligent key system warning light on the MID will be blinking in green, replace the fob battery ASAP.

2) Though the intelligent key is termed water resistant, it is mentioned that wetting may damage the key! Do not bend, drop or strike the key against another object. Do not use a magnet holder.

3) The key may not properly work below temperature of -10 degree C. Do not place the key for extended time where temperature exceed 60 degree C (I guess we should read that do not leave the key on the dash).

4) Do not place the key near an equipment that produces magnetic field or radio signals. And as the key is continuously receiving radio signal, placing it near equipments that transmit radio waves, such as TV, PC, etc., can shorten the fob battery life (so next time, I've to keep it away from my PC).

4) The intelligent key (the key fob) generates radio signal and can adversely affect electric medical equipments or aircraft navigation.

5) Normal life of the key-fob battery is expected to be 2 years. There is a DIY illustrated in the owner's manual to replace the battery.

6) While changing the fob battery, do not let dust or oil get on the components. It is also important not to touch the internal circuit and electric terminals as doing so could cause a malfunction. I've opened the fob and the usual electronic board goes in it. Additionally, there is a copper (I guess) coil winding going through the periphery of the fob.

Last edited by thoma : 19th March 2013 at 23:43.
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Old 20th March 2013, 09:59   #14
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Default Re: What to do if remote key fob fails and vehicle is equipped with Start-Stop button

Quote:
Originally Posted by thoma View Post
Correction. There is a workaround for this. The car indeed starts with no battery in the fob. I had been cross checking the owner's manual and found that the fob needs to be touched on to the start/stop button before trying to start. The clutch being depressed, you need to start the engine within 10 seconds of the chime sound produced upon a touch. The car does not sense the fob if it remains in the pocket. I tried it out.
Same thing is applicable to Verna and i20. We had tried the same during the test drive. The Start/Stop button needs to be pressed with the key fob.
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Old 20th March 2013, 10:53   #15
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Default Re: What to do if remote key fob fails and vehicle is equipped with Start-Stop button

The fob battery of my in-laws Micra lasted hardly a year. As thoma mentioned, there is a display on the MID that shows the health of the fob battery.

Nissan did not have a spare battery . But then the best part was that you can take it to a watch repair shop and get the replacement for 40 bucks
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