Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 15th April 2013, 11:05   #46
Senior - BHPian
 
dkaile's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Meerut, India
Posts: 2,721
Thanked: 3,240 Times
Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
Let's not jump the gun here. We don't even know what has failed in the turbo. Let's wait to hear about the actual problem. So as of now we cannot assume start-up and shut down procedures to a cause for the turbo failure.
Whose jumping the gun here mate! It was just a causal suggestion on a topic where a turbo charger has failed about a practice that has been validated to lubricate the turbo properly for the information of owners of all turbo charged vehicles.
dkaile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2013, 11:20   #47
BHPian
 
freewheelburnin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: bangalore
Posts: 272
Thanked: 26 Times
Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
Whose jumping the gun here mate! It was just a causal suggestion on a topic where a turbo charger has failed about a practice that has been validated to lubricate the turbo properly for the information of owners of all turbo charged vehicles.
While there are recommended ways to handle turbo charged cars,this in no way should cause an early failure of Turbo.There could be multiple causes for failure,just my opinion
  • Foreign particles or additives in fuel
  • Clogging of lubrication path and bearings failure
  • Turbo boost exceeded beyond the normal operating point due to software or hardware failure
freewheelburnin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2013, 11:23   #48
Senior - BHPian
 
vikram_d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,374
Thanked: 923 Times
Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
Whose jumping the gun here mate! It was just a causal suggestion on a topic where a turbo charger has failed about a practice that has been validated to lubricate the turbo properly for the information of owners of all turbo charged vehicles.
My point being that we don't know if this problem happened even with the owner following the procedures and I would love to see the validation that you are talking about. I till date have not seen turbo's not functioning because of not following start-up and stopping procedures, especially when the car is just 15 days old.

So let's wait to hear about what has actually failed and then we can do a proper and informed port-mortem of what could have gone wrong with the turbo.
vikram_d is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2013, 11:31   #49
Senior - BHPian
 
dkaile's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Meerut, India
Posts: 2,721
Thanked: 3,240 Times
Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
I would love to see the validation that you are talking about. I till date have not seen turbo's not functioning because of not following start-up and stopping procedures
I think you have missed this very important topic started by GTO regarding "Why you must practice the "Idling Rule" with Turbo-Charged Cars" - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...rged-cars.html (Why you must practice the "Idling Rule" with Turbo-Charged Cars)

In fact it is more crucial in new cars to follow this. I am in no way implying that was what went wrong here because as .anshuman suggested that the owner was a experienced driver but just suggesting for owners of other turbo-charged cars why that is important. Kindly go through that topic to answer your queries.

Last edited by dkaile : 15th April 2013 at 11:53.
dkaile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2013, 12:06   #50
Senior - BHPian
 
headers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greater Chennai
Posts: 4,534
Thanked: 418 Times
Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
I'm sure that Mahindra service is not so incompetent that it would take them 20 days to figure out something so simple. Moreover they would have noticed this when they tried to replace the turbo from the test drive vehicle. Also according to what has been mentioned here they have concentrated on the turbo since day one. So I'm sure they would have noticed something so simple.
It is not so simple to diagnose as no error codes throw up.. The engine cover on most vehicles conceal this area. And most A.S.S guys are incompetent and you rarely find 1 in 100 who know how to diagnose a problem. Most of them do standard checks and put a tick mark.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
Let's not jump the gun here. We don't even know what has failed in the turbo. Let's wait to hear about the actual problem. So as of now we cannot assume start-up and shut down procedures to a cause for the turbo failure.

@Anshuman - Can you post the DTC that was recorded when they scanned the ECU?
A TC cant fail so fast and so easily - Must be some PDI checklist error.

Yeah - Lets see what the actual issue is. Sad though that it should happen to a 20L category vehicle.
headers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2013, 12:25   #51
Senior - BHPian
 
vikram_d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,374
Thanked: 923 Times
Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
I think you have missed this very important topic started by GTO regarding "Why you must practice the "Idling Rule" with Turbo-Charged Cars" - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...rged-cars.html (Why you must practice the "Idling Rule" with Turbo-Charged Cars)

In fact it is more crucial in new cars to follow this. I am in no way implying that was what went wrong here because as .anshuman suggested that the owner was a experienced driver but just suggesting for owners of other turbo-charged cars why that is important. Kindly go through that topic to answer your queries.
OK, I am not going to drag this out any further. We are going off topic here. let's continue this discussion in the relevant thread that has been posted by you. Cheers.

Let's just wait till we hear from Anshuman as to what the latest updates are and then we can try to decipher what could have gone wrong in this case.
vikram_d is offline   (7) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2013, 12:56   #52
Senior - BHPian
 
mayankjha1806's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: BLR/Gurgaon
Posts: 2,133
Thanked: 815 Times
Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

This is not a good news for Mahindra, these quality issues and lack of support in every corner of the country is a cause of concern. I would consider availability of support infrastructure as a prime USP for this car but i guess that is not the case.

I am sure they will get around in fixing this (Now that the problem has been highlighted at the highest level), and the owner will be satisfied thereafter, but what is missing is why was he refused attention and support while he was away from Delhi.

One buys SUV's like these to take them to far-off unreachable places. Support in my view becomes the most critical factor in purchase. Mahindra should quickly address this area especially with respect to Rexton.
mayankjha1806 is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2013, 13:10   #53
Team-BHP Support
 
.anshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Good-Gaon
Posts: 7,539
Thanked: 7,991 Times
Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

A Turbocharger failing at just 5000kms, that too with careful driving, looks like a Manufacturing/Assembly defect to me. No amount of abuse or not following the idling schedule(and improper Running in ) can make it go bust so early. If busting a turbo is so easy due to negligence, then this would have been listed as replacement at every scheduled service.

I am surprised at some of the comments blaming everything else under the sun than Manufacturing defect.I say it from my personal experience of driving CRDI Turbo cars for multiple lakh kms, these Diesel engines are not sensitive to Fuel quality and very forgiving to abuse. This isolated instance of Turbo failing does not really make Turbocharged any inferior in reliability, for those who have spent time with old Diesels, these CRDI engines are a dream come true(me included), for everything from Power Delivery to NVH to FE to low emissions.. This one off incident is surely not a reason why Automotive technology should go backwards.

The first thing that popped in my mind, when i heard about the issue was dislodged Turbo hose, we got it checked, it was not the case. AFAIK Rexton's manual does mention Turbo idling.

Will post other details later.
.anshuman is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2013, 13:49   #54
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,352
Thanked: 816 Times
Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

Well, my views after I read this:

1. Haryana dealerships redirected to Delhi - bad (but better than spoiling the car, I would say)
2. Delhi dealership took the car in and worked on it - good
3. They isolated the problem to Turbo, reasonably quick - very good (these issues can be really tricky depending upon how elaborate the ODB 2 codes and symptoms are, and of course the training)
4. They did not have turbo in stock - no dealer keeps turbo in stock
5. They did not have Rexton MT is a TD car - not good (but they had an AT as a TD car, you said? Then that's fair. Even Hyundai dealers here in Pune do not have all versions of Santa Fe for TD. It's bloody expensive to keep each version for TD, dealer has to buy it)
6. 20 day wait for the replacement turbo - bad (they should have some stock in Chakan, even though turbo failures are rare)
7. Replacement car/taxi cost - this is a non-technical issue, so I wouldn't care much about it right now. I would concentrate on getting the right diagnosis and right fix.
8. The service center's original diagnosis turned out to be right (something related to turbo) - now that's more than good
9. Call center experience: Oh come on, what do you expect?


BTW, which part "inside" turbo was fixed as a jugaad? Such knowledge is really useful to all of us and it indicates that they know a little bit about the car.

Just my views from my experience of maintaining City, Tucson and the Laura over last few year... (believe me this case could have become horrible if this was "Skoda Rexton")

Cheers!

Last edited by anandpadhye : 15th April 2013 at 13:52.
anandpadhye is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2013, 14:06   #55
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,603
Thanked: 14,875 Times
Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

If a turbo fails, (actual mechanical failure), you do not have the vehicle running fine for some time before throwing up error code. When the turbo fails you will see excessive oil burn through exhaust, and you will never get boost.
I am pretty sure this was due to a manufacturing defect, as the turbo in this vehicle ran fine initially, and then after some driving you got the error codes.
That said, what was the actual error code. Did the workshop share the same?
tsk1979 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2013, 14:33   #56
Team-BHP Support
 
.anshuman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Good-Gaon
Posts: 7,539
Thanked: 7,991 Times
Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
Well, my views after I read this:

1. Haryana dealerships redirected to Delhi - bad (but better than spoiling the car, I would say)
We wanted them to have a look at the car to see if something basic might be causing the problem. Also, to determine if there was something serious, in that case my friend would have towed the car instead of driving it. But, the dealership on the highway refused to even look at the car, quoting orders from Mahindra HQ. Imagine yourself stuck on a highway, 4 hours from Delhi, headed to the opposite direction with your family in the car.

Do you really feel Mahindra dealers who do not sell the Rexton should not attend Rexton even in case of breakdown?

Quote:
2. Delhi dealership took the car in and worked on it - good
The other workshops who attended the car before this were clueless.

Quote:
3. They isolated the problem to Turbo, reasonably quick - very good (these issues can be really tricky depending upon how elaborate the ODB 2 codes and symptoms are, and of course the training)
3 days to determine its a turbo problem, when the code clearly says so, even before job card was printed i suggested them to look at the turbo first.

Rexton is not a complicated Automobile, it is no more complex than a Scorpio, its just that Dealerships are not prepared enough.

Quote:
4. They did not have turbo in stock - no dealer keeps turbo in stock
They asked for minimum 20 days, this will apply for any regular customer. It was only after senior Mahindra management(maybe Mr.Anand Mahindra too, going by his tweet) jumped in, they flew in the turbo in a single day, that too on a weekend. This also proves, they have capability to source the real fast, but it is not done for regular customers.

So is it advisable that one should tweet Mr. Mahindra before every every visit to workshop or whenever their breaks down, to ensure they get treated like a customer deserves. If Yes, they should mention Mr. Mahindra's tweet id on the service book instead of the helpline number.

Quote:
5. They did not have Rexton MT is a TD car - not good (but they had an AT as a TD car, you said? Then that's fair. Even Hyundai dealers here in Pune do not have all versions of Santa Fe for TD. It's bloody expensive to keep each version for TD, dealer has to buy it)
Look at the sales figures of Santa Fe vs Rexton, Rexton is the second best selling car in the segment after the Fortuner.

Quote:
7. Replacement car/taxi cost - this is a non-technical issue, so I wouldn't care much about it right now. I would concentrate on getting the right diagnosis and right fix.
We never asked for replacement car, though i feel my friend should have been provided one. They promised a XUV500, which they could not provide, citing technical problems in the XUV500.

Quote:
8. The service center's original diagnosis turned out to be right (something related to turbo) - now that's more than good
Quote:
9. Call center experience: Oh come on, what do you expect?
I do not expect false cooked up stories on how they have zeroed in the problem and car would be delivered on the next day, when the actual situation on ground is entirely different.

Quote:
BTW, which part "inside" turbo was fixed as a jugaad? Such knowledge is really useful to all of us and it indicates that they know a little bit about the car.

Quote:
Just my views from my experience of maintaining City, Tucson and the Laura over last few year... (believe me this case could have become horrible if this was "Skoda Rexton")
Just because Skoda provides bad support is not a good reason to appreciate Mahindra's slightly better but still a failure to provide reasonable quality support(in this case), until this got escalated to senior Management.

Last edited by .anshuman : 15th April 2013 at 14:35.
.anshuman is offline   (8) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2013, 14:50   #57
BHPian
 
eq24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Crazy-gaon, NCR
Posts: 377
Thanked: 304 Times
Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty



+1 to you Anshuman, my point is don't sell a product and if you do how can you ignore a customer. Even the chalta hai attitude of call center's is wrong. Why have a call center if they can't do anything.

You know the only thing missing in India is a justice system which works, imagine this in the US, Anand Mahindra would have visited your friend just to say Sorry.

I remember in the US, I had bought some medicines from Johnson and Johnson and one of the tablets had a black spot. I made a complain and next day after making 5 phone calls to meet me, I had the area and the regional J&J managers at my door step with a goody basket and a very sincere apology. They were so worried that we would sue them. Not only did they give new tablets, they followed up for over two months, including a full health check up at a very expensive hospital to assure us that the medicines were fine and worked as intended. Now this is the level of Customer satisfaction one would expect and the tablets were only 6 or 7 dollars.

Imagine for a 25 lakh car. Wake up India, chalta hai is not an excuse, this is hard earned money and well being at stake here.
eq24 is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2013, 15:09   #58
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,352
Thanked: 816 Times
Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

Anshuman,

But what is the jugaad inside the turbo that they did? I am really curious about it.

And forget Santa Fe - even for Elantra/Verna they don't have "all" versions for TD. More than right or wrong, just can't help it I guess.

And yes, Skoda service should not be a benchmark, absolutely. I was just drawing your attention to the fact that "it could have been worse". I have also read some Safari ownership threads where guys have had to wait for weeks for diagnosis and parts...where in really parts and engineers can travel overnight from Pune to anywhere in India...
anandpadhye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2013, 16:33   #59
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,352
Thanked: 816 Times
Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
If a turbo fails, (actual mechanical failure), you do not have the vehicle running fine for some time before throwing up error code. When the turbo fails you will see excessive oil burn through exhaust, and you will never get boost.
Either excessive oil in the exhaust or in the intake - depending on which bearing/seal gives up/gets worn out. And if it's on the intake side, there may or may not be any visible symptoms until it becomes catastrophic.

Last edited by anandpadhye : 15th April 2013 at 16:35.
anandpadhye is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2013, 16:44   #60
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 54
Thanked: 20 Times
Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

As mentioned by vikram_d, eagerly waiting for further details from .anshuman regarding.

Suggestion to .anshuman - it would be wise to photograph the failed turbo for further evidence and analysis. Please do demand (I know you will certainly) to produce the failed turbo for inspection before leaving workshop.
sujithpnair is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mahindra launches the SsangYong Rexton @ 17.67 - 19.67 lacs parrys The Indian Car Scene 215 13th August 2016 11:58
Skoda Yeti. 4.5 lakh repair bill! EDIT: Fuel system replaced under warranty Catamaran Technical Stuff 148 21st February 2014 10:54
SsangYong (Rexton and more) @ Auto Expo 2012 Rehaan The Indian Car Scene 30 3rd October 2012 18:24
Updated SsangYong Rexton! raj_5004 The Indian Car Scene 43 4th June 2012 18:01
Ssangyong Rexton Stratos Super-Cars & Imports in India 2 3rd June 2004 15:46


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 19:21.

Copyright 2000 - 2016, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks