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Old 15th April 2013, 16:56   #61
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

First of all, I have great sympathies for every automobile owner who suffers at the hands of inept A.S.S. personnel.

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
What is with these turbos? I heard stories of many blown turbos, across makes. I think big displacement NA (non-turbo) engines are better. Do they really have to shrink cc and add a turbo? This is the general trend on diesel cars. I wonder if they are right.
The strict emission norms cannot be met without installing a turbocharger on diesel engines. Downsizing engines is a global trend. The future emission norms are going to make turbochargers essential on petrol engines as well. The solution is not to do away with turbochargers but to make them more reliable.

Also, drivers of turbochargers need to be cared for. There is a thread on this in Team-BHP.
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Old 16th April 2013, 17:55   #62
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

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Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
Well, my views after I read this:

BTW, which part "inside" turbo was fixed as a jugaad? Such knowledge is really useful to all of us and it indicates that they know a little bit about the car.
I suspect it is the actuator controlling the VGT, that might have gotten stuck.The actuator on a XUV is vacuum operated. The Jugaad (I'm assuming the Rexton also runs on a vacuum operated VGT actuator) could be a refit of the actuator or of the entire turbo itself.
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Old 16th April 2013, 19:25   #63
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

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Originally Posted by nijelj View Post
I suspect it is the actuator controlling the VGT, that might have gotten stuck.The actuator on a XUV is vacuum operated. The Jugaad (I'm assuming the Rexton also runs on a vacuum operated VGT actuator) could be a refit of the actuator or of the entire turbo itself.
Hi,
Rexton Rx 5 manual has fgt and not vgt.
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Old 16th April 2013, 22:10   #64
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

My humble opinion is that as this car is under warranty, Mahindra can do its trial and error experiments at their own cost in their R&D centre quietly with this broken engine and replace the faulty engine in this car with a brand new one and get back their good reputation and earn the customer's trust, which will help them sell more Rextons. The cost involved in giveing the customer this replacement will be covered easily by selling on 10 or more Rextons.
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Old 17th April 2013, 09:35   #65
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I think we are missing the basic point here.
It is common knowledge that during running in, the probability of failure is high, that's the reason for prescribed rpm (not speed) limits.
Even assuming that the problem occurred due to improper running in (very unlikely in the current context with the owner being no stranger to automobiles), it is the attitude of Mahindras that sucks.
They neither have a clue on what went wrong nor do they care. Probably in their opinion it's just one more guinea pig!

Last edited by cpbopanna : 17th April 2013 at 09:36.
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Old 17th April 2013, 10:54   #66
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

I don't think we are missing the point...
Why guinea pig? Is this the first turbo car for Mahindra? Not at all.

Turbo problems take time, really.

Why the dealeships in Haryana did not want to get involved, etc is certainly something M&M should solve and they will - those dealerships have been handling Scorpios for years, it may be just a psychological issue - Korean product, Merc engine (supposedly high-tech), super-rich customers, why get into the mess (especially if some other dealer has made the sale) - kind of thinking. This will be sorted out eventually, though as customers, we would expect it to be sorted out before the launch...

But I have been seeing how turbo failures are handled by the Hyundai and Skoda dealers here in Pune. In majority of the cases, it's a matter of weeks, not days.

And coming back to technical issue - there is not much info here yet, we are awaiting...
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Old 17th April 2013, 11:19   #67
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

most of the limp home error codes have to do with the darn EGT valve, either the valve itself or its faulty reading. Once the ECU decides that its not meeting emission norms, she puts the engine into limp home mode. And most of the workshops either Mahindra or Tata don't seem to diagnose this, instead all they do is plug in a laptop, clear the error codes and hope the system doesn't malfunction again.
If your friend got hold of the actual error code and does a google search, he should be able to trace the faulty component, and if the component is replaced, this error should vanish. Most modern engines are built to last lacs of km and its rare that critical components like turbos turn out faulty.
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Old 17th April 2013, 11:20   #68
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

I am (was) also a prospective customer of the Rexton.

I think I missed something here. What was the effect of the tweet sent to Mr Anand Mahindra? Did it assist the repairs in any way?
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Old 17th April 2013, 11:51   #69
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

As far as running in is concerned the Rexton manual says its only for the first 1000 Km's. I suppose the vehicle in question here has already completed running in as per the company.
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Old 17th April 2013, 11:59   #70
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

Mahindra got the car picked from home today, my friend was not home before this so i'd blame the delay on his part. The promised drop back time is today everning.

Not sure if i'll be able to access technical details on this as i am not visiting the workshop, i have asked my friend to get as much details as he can.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
I don't think we are missing the point...
Why guinea pig? Is this the first turbo car for Mahindra? Not at all.

Turbo problems take time, really.

Why the dealeships in Haryana did not want to get involved, etc is certainly something M&M should solve and they will - those dealerships have been handling Scorpios for years, it may be just a psychological issue - Korean product, Merc engine (supposedly high-tech), super-rich customers, why get into the mess (especially if some other dealer has made the sale) - kind of thinking. This will be sorted out eventually, though as customers, we would expect it to be sorted out before the launch...

But I have been seeing how turbo failures are handled by the Hyundai and Skoda dealers here in Pune. In majority of the cases, it's a matter of weeks, not days.

And coming back to technical issue - there is not much info here yet, we are awaiting...
Please see post#56 again. If Skoda takes 5 months to repair a car, do you want Mahindra to do the same? Why don't you compare it to Toyota Fortuner, Rexton's chief competitor.

Example- Hyundai got a replacement ECU for my Uncle's Sonata Embera CRDI from Korea in less than a week, in 2008. Before this, the small town dealer attended the car and tried his troubleshooting instead of refusing to look at the car. Another instance, my Elantra's A/C failed in Dabwali(a very small town), a nearby Hyundai service station tried his best make it work even though temporarily, just to enable me to drive the car comfortably to Gurgaon. I can post an endless list of similar instances which happened to me/people around me.

I do not know of any Skoda dealers who wouldn't attend a breakdown case.

On the Guinea Pig part, there was no R&D done on customer's car, it was just troubleshooting, on a part which i believe had defects from the time of manufacturing/assembly, the troubleshooting was done just because the part was not in stock.

Last edited by .anshuman : 17th April 2013 at 12:13.
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Old 17th April 2013, 12:06   #71
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
Turbo problems take time, really.
I agree with you, turbo issues take time, a lot of time and hence I feel it is commendable for that one M&M dealer to have diagnosed it pretty early.

However, all dealers must be brought to this level in an ideal world, which again, will not happen.

What was lacking here, from the tone of the OP, was empathy by the other dealers and the call centre in handling the customer.

The customer was not bothered about a replacement vehicle or taxi expenses(I would have driven them up the wall for it), the customer was okay in leaving his vehicle for a few days even though it is his only vehicle, the customer is still ok in using his vehicle with the "Jugaad" within city limits only, so all in all, he/she is a very patient customer who could have been easily empathized with and handled.

A warm cup of tea with a confident handshake saying "With you Hamesha" would have made things so much better.
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Old 17th April 2013, 12:16   #72
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashroy_6 View Post
Hi,
Rexton Rx 5 manual has fgt and not vgt.
Hello Ashroy,
Could you please help me to understand what is meant by fgt?
Thanks.
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Old 17th April 2013, 12:38   #73
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

Quote:
Originally Posted by sujithpnair View Post
Hello Ashroy,
Could you please help me to understand what is meant by fgt?
Thanks.
FGT = Fixed geometry turbocharger
VGT = Variable geometry turbocharger

A search engine will help you get the differences between the two types. Cheers.
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Old 17th April 2013, 12:40   #74
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

Dear Anshuman - I am glued to this thread. Please provide details as they get available.

On my "Super Bolero" MH15CM6341 ("only" 115BHP), the EGR valve stem broke off, giving same symptoms. I just replaced the EGR valve assembly, threw the old part under "warranty" and was out of the workshop within 15 minutes flat, back on full power! I have not studied the Rexton engine so can't comment right away, will study and then only comment.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Last edited by DHABHAR.BEHRAM : 17th April 2013 at 12:41. Reason: add info
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Old 17th April 2013, 13:02   #75
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Once the ECU decides that its not meeting emission norms, she puts the engine into limp home mode.


Bit off-topic:
There are few versions of ECU program from same manufacturer like BOSCH, I mean the CRS technology has seen EDC-16, 17 etc generations from BOSCH. Though OEM ensures dealer gets/ has the respective diagnostic tool, there are few instances where mechanics use wrong diagnostic tool. This may be due to their lack of knowledge or they are not trained promptly. Unfortunately not all OEM has poke-yoke solution when it comes to diagnostic connectors. Hence there could be chances that error code may not be traceable accurately!

Regarding the comment on "not meeting emission" – is not only the reason for limp home mode triger. As a general practice in country, except Lamda sensor (O2) there is no other sensor measures emission in the exhaust line. There are few rumors that few of high end cars have NOx sensors too, but not sure. Rather whenever ECU detects any problem which can cause any damage to system or related parts, ECU will trigger limp home function, viz. if rail or pump pressure sensor malfunctions, or if synchronization doesn’t happen (one of the cam or crank sensor malfunctions), or injector drift is too high etc.
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