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Old 17th April 2013, 13:33   #76
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

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Originally Posted by n.devdath View Post
A warm cup of tea with a confident handshake saying "With you Hamesha" would have made things so much better.
A warm cup of tea - they always provide, I get many of those, and the one at Hyundai is really well made (unlike the machine tea in my office), and I have had quite a lot of tea at Hyundai in last 4 years (for the Tucson, every part has to come from Korea, so till then it's tea all the way)...

But Anshuman, yes, Hyundai have really mastered the art of logistics. They are quite fast even for the CBU parts as I have mentioned before. They should be a benchmark for everyone, especially Mahindra-Ssangyong!
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Old 17th April 2013, 14:09   #77
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

For a proper relative comparo

Skoda Laura Tubo Failure - Part Replaced under warranty (last month)- Car was our of service for 1 mth, till approvals came in. They also replaced a Gear Shifter Switch under warranty (not reported an issue) along with the intercooler and Turbo at the same time.

Second Tubro Failure in Skoda Laura - Out of warranty. Skoda picked up the car and dropped it back after reporting the issue, drove it to my local garage mechanic - He replaced the turbo in 1 week at 60% of the cost - though with no warranty.

Turbo Failure in Safari TCIC - Rubber kit fitted in 1 day and car was back with me - Local Garage

Second Turbo Failure in Safari TCIC - Rubber kit again fitted in 1 day and car was back with me. - This was 20,000 kms after first failure - Local Garage.

Third Tubo Failure in Safari TCIC - Tubro Replaced in 3 days - Local Garage - Half the price.

Yep time varies from 30 days to 1 day, depending on where, what car and on part availability.

But today almost anyone can repair a Turbo. - 1 Week is the reasonable time frame. Repairs that have to be carried out within warranty tend to take longer due to documentation more than anything else.
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Old 17th April 2013, 14:32   #78
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

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Originally Posted by ACM View Post

But today almost anyone can repair a Turbo. - 1 Week is the reasonable time frame. Repairs that have to be carried out within warranty tend to take longer due to documentation more than anything else.
Absolutely. if we are talking about third party repair shops.
I got my Tucson turbo rebuilt in 3 days from Samarth Turbo repair works in Pune and good part is Hyundai SA himself arranged it.

No ASC (that I know) repair turbo themselves. So if you want official support, like in this case (Anshuman's), then it's mostly going to be replacement route (more so because this is in warranty). Even then, they did some "jugaad" which I find commendable.

Note: Diagnosing a turbo failure can be really tricky and can take a long time - in my case, it was a slow death so we got to the turbo almost 2 years after the first symptoms were seen...so my point is, finding the root cause is the hardest part, and till then you can't even order spares...

Last edited by anandpadhye : 17th April 2013 at 14:38.
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Old 17th April 2013, 15:09   #79
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

When I bought the Laura (preowned) it was just before the first set of issues related to Laura (and Skoda Service) were reported on TBHP. It was also just before the 2 year warranty ran out. My vehicle being from the first lot of Laura sold in India meant that it was among the first vehicles to go out of warranty and experience the expensive life on it's own. Prior to my picking up the Laura it was a clear dream vehicle to own - Diesel - Great Looks, Great Build, Great Feature set - Compact and yet better than the Accord etc, were attributes associated with it.

The Rexton has been in my list of vehicles to consider when picking up the next one since it has been launched (just the way the Laura was) and yet now seeing how some Rexton related issues have been reported it is a sense of deja vu. It seems to being going down the same path. The Rexton too has been selling well and yet if they do not do sufficent to ensure customer satisfaction for all of it's limited customers it may see a slump at a later date. Like the XUV it too offers a potent VFM advantage to the buyer but the segment is different and in this higher segment reliability and customer experience will be even more important than the VFM tag offset.

This customer seems to have done all the right things and the Service center as well as M&M seemed to have goofed up interms of developing a local technical excellence centre to diagnose faults. Escallation up to Korea for such issues does not seem to be a well planned support model.

The Jugad solution probably was swaping a part of the Turbo with another Rextron.
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Old 17th April 2013, 15:37   #80
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

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Originally Posted by tusharsethi View Post
+1

I had sent my XUV to the service center thrice for a couple of problems and all came back as it is. I tweeted Anand Mahindra and got a call within 2 hours from their Regional head. They then went ahead and overnighted parts from their factory to fix this issue the next day.

Don't think twice. His twitter handle is "anandmahindra"
As such, learning this issue hitting a brand new Rexton and the helpless nature with which the Mahindra A.S.S. as well as the customer care behaves is making me sad (now thinking twice whether I should look at Rexton at all - which was on the top of the list for my next steed).

On top of that, if for every little issue one would have to get Anand Mahindra's attention and then only it will get solved, then that's really pathetic!

M&M, Wake up before it is too late!
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Old 17th April 2013, 16:43   #81
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

This whole experience kind of demonstrate that some of these manufacturers still have a long way to go before they tackle anything reasonably high-end. Looks like they haven’t done their homework and a basic readiness check (customer management, service expertise, parts availability) before launching the product. Or probably they had too much trust on Ssangyong’s reliability.
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Old 17th April 2013, 22:06   #82
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

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Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
@.anshuman - Have they mentioned what part has failed? To me it sounds like the waste gate is stuck open and because of this the turbo is not producing any boost.
Vikram, you were right, it was Waste gate valve that was stuck, resulting in engine not getting full boost. This resulted the ECU to trigger safe made because engine was running too rich without required boost.

They have changed the entire Turbocharger. They've also assured me this was one off case and this is not a known issue with the car.

Just out of curiosity i asked them the price of the Turbo charger, it costs 56000 bucks for FGT version used in Rexton, which i feel is quite reasonable considering the cost/Segment of Rexton. AFAIK much cheaper cars like i20 CRDI come with a far more expensive Turbocharger.


_______________________________________________
Their response after matter got forwarded to the Seniors was top notch. Everything from sourcing the Turbo to co-ordinating the pick up and drop of the car was top grade. At the end Mr.Dheeraj from Regional office assured me that they will try to treat every Rexton customer this way.

I am glad that my friend is happy with the solution offered. He is not a BHPian(though he proudly has TBHP stickers on from day 1), so he has asked me to Thank all you guys for your support, suggestions and advice.
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Old 17th April 2013, 23:23   #83
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

Would you look at that!
So Vikram does know a thing or two about turbos

Anshuman, glad that they were finally able to solve the problem!
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Old 18th April 2013, 01:19   #84
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
They have changed the entire Turbocharger.
Just out of curiosity i asked them the price of the Turbo charger, it costs 56000 bucks for FGT version used in Rexton, which i feel is quite reasonable
The price is quite reasonable. Because we sourced one for a 15 year old Cummins engine driving a locomotive and was costing exactly this much.
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Old 18th April 2013, 08:34   #85
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

I'm glad that they figured out the problem and hope that the car now remains trouble free.

Edit: Turbo prices have fallen drastically since Honeywell and Turbo Energy started manufacturing them locally. The turbo for an Indica costs as little ₹20,000:00 when bought directly from Turbo Energy.

Last edited by vikram_d : 18th April 2013 at 08:37.
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Old 18th April 2013, 09:10   #86
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Just out of curiosity i asked them the price of the Turbo charger, it costs 56000 bucks for FGT version used in Rexton, which i feel is quite reasonable considering the cost/Segment of Rexton. AFAIK much cheaper cars like i20 CRDI come with a far more expensive Turbocharger.
Now that's a concrete piece of info. Good that the root cause is found (and isolating the problem to a waste gate actuator is a tough one).

56K is in line with what I have seen. FGT in Tucson costs 75K (OEM). More than the segment of a car, the price has to do with the type and size of the turbo - VGT costs more (even if it's deployed in a hatchback).

Samarth Turbo repair works also told me that waste gate actuator is generally not available as part of the rebuid kit, so if that's gone, you need to replace the entire turbo.

What's the make of the Turbo in Rexton?
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Old 18th April 2013, 10:55   #87
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Default re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

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Originally Posted by sujithpnair View Post


Bit off-topic:
There are few versions of ECU program from same manufacturer like BOSCH, I mean the CRS technology has seen EDC-16, 17 etc generations from BOSCH. Though OEM ensures dealer gets/ has the respective diagnostic tool, there are few instances where mechanics use wrong diagnostic tool. This may be due to their lack of knowledge or they are not trained promptly. Unfortunately not all OEM has poke-yoke solution when it comes to diagnostic connectors. Hence there could be chances that error code may not be traceable accurately!

Regarding the comment on "not meeting emission" – is not only the reason for limp home mode triger. As a general practice in country, except Lamda sensor (O2) there is no other sensor measures emission in the exhaust line. There are few rumors that few of high end cars have NOx sensors too, but not sure. Rather whenever ECU detects any problem which can cause any damage to system or related parts, ECU will trigger limp home function, viz. if rail or pump pressure sensor malfunctions, or if synchronization doesn’t happen (one of the cam or crank sensor malfunctions), or injector drift is too high etc.
Agree!! But as you see Dabar's post above, the most common reason for
1) check engine light
2) lack of power/limp home mode is the EGR failure/error
Its happened to a lot of us SUV owners, who have common rail turbo engines, the limp home mode is mostly associated with EGR malfunctions. Hence I suggested EGR module be checked once the owner gets the relevant error codes thrown up, else to replacement of the EGR module could be tried to solve the issue.
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Old 18th April 2013, 11:02   #88
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Default Re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

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Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
Edit: Turbo prices have fallen drastically since Honeywell and Turbo Energy started manufacturing them locally. The turbo for an Indica costs as little ₹20,000:00 when bought directly from Turbo Energy.
The cheapest i have heard is for Swift Diesel. A friend runs a Maruti Service center, he was claiming the Turbo for Swift D now costs 12k, not sure if he was talking about price he gets it for or the final MRP for customer.
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Old 18th April 2013, 11:06   #89
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Default Re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
The cheapest i have heard is for Swift Diesel. A friend runs a Maruti Service center, he was claiming the Turbo for Swift D now costs 12k, not sure if he was talking about price he gets it for or the final MRP for customer.
Not sure about the cost for FGT,but VGT for National MJD engine costs around 35-37K.
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Old 18th April 2013, 11:17   #90
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Default Re: Engine trouble in Mahindra Ssangyong Rexton EDIT: Turbo replaced under warranty

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Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
Not sure about the cost for FGT,but VGT for National MJD engine costs around 35-37K.
AFAIK Maruti and Fiat do not use the same turbo, hence there is difference in pricing. Please correct me if i am wrong.
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