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Old 9th May 2013, 17:44   #1
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Default Technology in Skoda cars

In my findings you can pretty much do any mods with a Skoda as long as you know how to code using VCDS. HIDs are a major risk, however, as they can cause damage to the BCM module, wiper motor etc. Source: Ross-tech.com

However, when adding third-party accessories, one may not get the complete integration.
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Old 9th May 2013, 18:07   #2
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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Originally Posted by nitinbose View Post
In my findings you can pretty much do any mods with a Skoda as long as you know how to code using VCDS. ...
Which language IS that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitinbose View Post
... HIDs are a major risk, however, as they can cause damage to the BCM module, wiper motor etc. ...
Err ... why would HID damage BCM and wiper motor?

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Originally Posted by nitinbose View Post
... when adding third-party accessories, one may not get the complete integration.
One can understand if someone tries to put something meant for a Hyundai, but otherwise???
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Old 10th May 2013, 08:44   #3
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

In my findings you can pretty much do any mods with a Skoda as long as you know how to code using VCDS. ...

Which language IS that?

You have to modify the Skoda software (for Laura, Yeti & Superb) so that its made aware of the modification you're doing. For example, the stock amp must be shut down and speaker monitoring should be turned OFF from the system, so that it does not throw off errors. Also this is necessary so that the HU outputs a variable audio signal. Similar software configs should be done for other modifications/accessories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitinbose
... HIDs are a major risk, however, as they can cause damage to the BCM module, wiper motor etc. ...

Err ... why would HID damage BCM and wiper motor?

The system is designed to work with the halogen lights and it keeps a check of this light. When you install HIDs, it wont be able to detect a "bulb" and keeps turning the HID ON & OFF, resulting in flickering. This causes some reverse power spikes that can damage the electronics. This is from personal experience. Ross-tech also confirms this: http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index...t_Retrofitting. So you again have to code using VCDS to adapt the controller to Xenon lamps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitinbose
... when adding third-party accessories, one may not get the complete integration.

One can understand if someone tries to put something meant for a Hyundai, but otherwise???

For example, the system is able to measure the battery level and can shut down devices to conserve power, especially when you're playing music, with the fan ON. If you're not having anything aftermarket, the CANBUS can shut down these devices to save power which wont be possible with aftermarket devices. What's more, there's nothing more beautiful with an integrated system that works with the car's speed, driving conditions etc! Which is the main reason for buying such intelligent cars.

Finally you do have systems such as AFS which depends on a whole lots of sensors, the light sensor on the windshield, sensors on the suspension, brakes feedback, steering angle feedback etc. Should you modify any of the above, you'd loose a whole lot of original functions. Hence my statement. I have personally installed HIDs for both low and high beams but lost the AFS function (i had to keep it disabled).

Last edited by nitinbose : 10th May 2013 at 08:47.
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Old 10th May 2013, 12:56   #4
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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Originally Posted by nitinbose View Post
... as long as you know how to code using VCDS. ... You have to modify the Skoda software (for Laura, Yeti & Superb) ...
Holdaaaay ... there is some misconception here
* VCDS is the old Vag-com diagnostic equipment, nothing to do with Skoda nor what Skoda puts in a car
* If there is a change is any equipment that *puts out* information on CAN Bus (OBD2), the VCDS will not be able figure it out. So?
* There is NO SOFTWARE MODIFICATION required anywhere in any Skoda control unit
* If diagnostics equipment is not able to detect an equipment, it doesn't at all mean the equipment won't function

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitinbose View Post
... The system is designed to work with the halogen lights and it keeps a check of this light. When you install HIDs, it wont be able to detect a "bulb" and keeps turning the HID ON & OFF, resulting in flickering. This causes some reverse power spikes that can damage the electronics. ...
Err... aah... Well, at least the last part is true. Any GD lighting system using a HV transformer *could* do that, not that it *will*. Low cost HIDs might not have the built-in precaution of not putting out spikes. If indeed spikes are put out, they might (again, might) destroy the output device of the Lamp Controller (equivalent of ye olde Relay) in the same way as a power line spike coming to your house might blow a charger unit.

Please read the Ross Tech information again now. By the way, Ross Tech is not the authority on Skoda internals. Much of the information in the link you gave is Ross Tech's way of a rider or disclaimer - they are not responsible if you spoil something by doing something wrong.

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Originally Posted by nitinbose View Post
... For example, the system is able to measure the battery level and can shut down devices ... lost the AFS function (i had to keep it disabled).
Different philosophy! If the car manufacturer didn't provide something of adequate output quality for the buyer, OR does not leave that as optional equipment (by giving integrated stuff), it cannot mean buyer is not within his rights to take measures to get it to the level that he wants.

Typically, this is required only for the ICE components, but there is no end to wanting something better in other functionality in the car. You wanted better lights, you replaced it. But, one is expected to do that with both eyes open, and know what one is doing. If the replacement disables an OE facility, everyone is expected to accept that like you did.

Incidentally, Skoda *has* bi-xenon AFS (in the Superb L&K in India, even in a Yeti in other countries). I am sure if you try to buy it afterwards (mod) from them, it will cost you an arm and a leg.
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Old 10th May 2013, 14:17   #5
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Holdaaaay ... there is some misconception here
* VCDS is the old Vag-com diagnostic equipment, nothing to do with Skoda nor what Skoda puts in a car
* If there is a change is any equipment that *puts out* information on CAN Bus (OBD2), the VCDS will not be able figure it out. So?
* There is NO SOFTWARE MODIFICATION required anywhere in any Skoda control unit
* If diagnostics equipment is not able to detect an equipment, it doesn't at all mean the equipment won't function
VCDS software is also updated to match the newer Skoda models. When you remove the stock equipment/disconnect them, the CANBUS sends error messages that the particular device is not found. Thus we need to change the options in the software to shut the device down. On the other hand, we need to enable these options, to install the stock devices.

For example, if you wish to install the park assist, you have to modify the software options to include the modules so that it can effectively communicate with the steering, brakes and the parking sensors.

Skoda dealers become alarmed/try to bring the warranty issues only when they see the errors. They simply blame the errors to the after market equipment or additional equipment you've put in and whatever problems that arise would be blamed on this, whether or not its true. hence my 2 cents.
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Old 10th May 2013, 15:19   #6
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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... the CANBUS sends error messages that the particular device is not found. ... hence my 2 cents.
CAN Bus is just a carrier of messages (physical + logical) like Ethernet cable. CAN Bus doesn't generate any messages - it just carries messages generated by different equipment. It doesn't send any messages by itself. Exactly like in computer networking where Ethernet doesn't generate messages, an equipment does.

There are equipments which are 'talkers', and there are equipment which are 'listeners'. A few, like Engine ECU and Transmission ECU, are both. All 'talkers' put messages on the bus, some periodically, some on an event. A 'talker' doesn't care if someone is listening or not.

A 'listener' has a choice of what to do if it is not getting the information it wants. If a 'talker' goes silent (possibly by being physically absent), a 'listener' who had any use for messages from it, quietly switches to either using a default / alternate data (if it can), or complain. If an equipment can complain via "Check engine" light (Engine ECU controls it, so it should get a complaint message), it will. If it doesn't, usually it will show the error to a Diag equipment when it asks the pertinent question.

Diagnostic Equipment, though it can both listen and talk, is not in the same category (not permanent member of CAN community within the car). The basic misconception here is assuming Diag Equipment makes a difference if it is not able to detect something. A Diag equipment is an optional listener as far as the car is concerned - no one cares if it is not present, or doesn't listen. No one is expecting a Diag equipment to be talking during normal operation, UNLESS the Diag equipment says the magic word and asks the right questions and gives the right commands.

VCDS software is NOT made by Skoda, and it doesn't matter to the car AT ALL if it exists or not. It is when you connect it (much like a thermometer or an oscilloscope), you get to see what is happening in the car. For that, VCDS must know what *can be there in the car*, because if an equipment says "Main Natwarlal hoon" on CAN Bus, VCDS must know beforehand of both Mr. Natwarlal and how he talks. To Mr. Natwarlal, it doesn't matter if VCDS exists or not, since he will keep doing his job.

If you install the park assist AFTER you have bought your car, it will function as expected WITHOUT VCDS or any other Diag equipment (for example, an OBD2 reader dongle and software on an Android tablet). If you, a human, wants to know if everything is fine and dandy with the Park Assist box, you will connect a Diag equipment and talk to it (since you cannot talk to Park Assist directly). BTW, the Park Assist box talks only to the sensors, which are connected directly to it, and not steering nor brakes, and definitely not via CAN bus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitinbose View Post
... Skoda dealers become alarmed/try to bring the warranty issues only when they see the errors. ...
No. If they see Errors they have to do something anyhow, since that proves that the some Skoda equipment is faulty. They don't look for added or missing equipment via the diag equipment and errors (unless someone stole your Tx ECU or BCM). They are simple minded people. The not-nasty ones will just talk to the point if there is a problem in the vehicle. If they had sold you the HU and the HU is showing a fault, they will direct you to the service center of the HU brand, or take it out and send it there.

It is only the nasty ones in them that start talking nonsense when they see that the ICE HU is not something they sold.
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Old 10th May 2013, 15:46   #7
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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If you install the park assist AFTER you have bought your car, it will function as expected WITHOUT VCDS or any other Diag equipment
No, it wont work out of the box. The park assist system has to be integrated before it can function. You have to enable it through VCDS, make sure the brakes, steering and the existing sensors are aware of each other and do a team job. You also need configure it to detect vacant spots. The system has also got to be integrated with the ESP.

Similarly, if you wish to install the bluetooth kit, you have to integrate it with the ICE by enabling the options on the system software.
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Old 10th May 2013, 16:18   #8
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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... The system has also got to be integrated with the ESP. ...
This is getting strangely murkier!!! I don't think you and I are talking of the same thing.

Where and what made you infer / understand that the Park Assist has got *anything* to do with Electronic Stability Program??? Or that Steering has anything to do with Park Assist? Or that the BT Kit needs *any other step* to play through the HU *other than* connecting it?

AND, what makes you think that ANY OF THE ABOVE systems needs VCDS to integrate??? If they are present in the car, they are already integrated. If you need to install them AFTER buying the car, you don't need to go to a service center to 'integrate' them - you can install them *yourself* to make them work EVEN IF you don't have a diagnostic equipment.

AND, WHO made you understand that VCDS is the center of Skoda universe?

Good God, you make a Skoda Service Engineer sound more advanced and sophisticated than Iron Man (and we all know Iron Man is make believe)!

Last edited by DerAlte : 10th May 2013 at 16:22.
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Old 13th May 2013, 18:50   #9
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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This is getting strangely murkier!!! I don't think you and I are talking of the same thing.
Indeed I feel so as well. I guess you're referring to the "Optical Parking system" whereas I'm talking about the "Park Assist" or "automatic Parking" or "Parallel Parking". This system enables one to park the car effortlessly by the push of a button and following voice prompts (for brake & gear shifts). The steering rotates automatically to maneuver the vehicle.

So in this case, the level of integration is higher.
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Old 13th May 2013, 20:28   #10
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... This system enables one to park the car effortlessly by the push of a button and following voice prompts (for brake & gear shifts). The steering rotates automatically to manoeuvre the vehicle. ...
Yes, I agree it will have a higher level of integration. But, if one wants it, this system will come installed from the factory, and it will not be a Dealer or User installable equipment.
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Old 15th May 2013, 22:03   #11
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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Yes, I agree it will have a higher level of integration. But, if one wants it, this system will come installed from the factory, and it will not be a Dealer or User installable equipment.
It does come factory installed for the Range Rovers (not sure of the model) and the Passat, I believe, but not for Skoda. However, we can order it separately (a skoda/VW original part) and install it ourselves with the help of a good technician. Skoda dealers to have tie-ups with such people and do such installations offline. .

http://www.vagtune.in/index.php?opti...tem&Itemid=535

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Old 15th May 2013, 22:30   #12
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... but not for Skoda. However, we can order it separately (a skoda/VW original part) and install it ourselves with the help of a good technician. Skoda dealers to have tie-ups with such people and do such installations offline. ...
Well, if you say so! Could be! Good luck getting yours.

I hope you will be going in with eyes open. Liability for injury to life and limb will no longer be with Skoda and VCDS, unless you prove it is Skoda policy, and not VCDS marketing spiel.

Doesn't sound kosher unless you find some official Skoda announcement saying so. This sounds like a local chicken seller who says he supplies chickens to KFC, not knowing how KFC works. It stands to logic that the large party calls the shots, not the small guy - they don't usually make the cut as a vendor. Especially if the large party has plenty to lose on a malfeasance court case by a consumer. Even in India.
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Old 16th May 2013, 06:01   #13
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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It does come factory installed for the Range Rovers (not sure of the model) and the Passat, I believe, but not for Skoda.
The new Skoda Octavia (yet to be launched in India) comes with "Auto Park" factory fitted on the top end variant. "Auto Park" doesn't just auto park the car but also auto unparks the car out of a tight situation. "Park Assist" is different.

Last edited by VeyronSuperSprt : 16th May 2013 at 06:29.
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Old 16th May 2013, 08:28   #14
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"Auto Park" doesn't just auto park the car but also auto unparks the car out of a tight situation.
Does it unpark? I've not so far heard of that and not seen videos on the "unparking" part.

I would certainly be interested if it unparks!
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Old 16th May 2013, 09:55   #15
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Does it unpark?
Yes, it does. And is more useful than the parking as it can get you out of potentially tight situations if some other car(s) have parked post your parking locking you in with an inch or two to spare.
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