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Old 18th May 2013, 19:06   #1
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Default Car Aircon Problem

Fellow Team-BHP'ians,
I Have encountered a problem in my 2008 Altis. I would appreciate your comments on it. Before the problem here is a brief background about car

Background
1. 2008-November Corolla Altis (G-Variant)
2. Car has clocked only 9170 KM because of my job and other cars in garage.
3. Car rest under a shed when not in use.
4. All serivce done on time, by toyota. Last done at 9150 KM (40K interval service)

Problem
1. Today I noticed the AC was not cooling to it's potential after a 15KM drive. After a while cooling completly fell low.
2. This was within 20 KM of drive after service.
3. After service the car was sitting in shed for a week or so.
4. When I took it to service center, car was diagnosed with AC gas pressure of 150 (Don't know the unit), the normal should be 500-550.
5. Service advisor advised a Leakage. Further check revealed no leakage on engine bay. Which means according to Toyota service the leakage is behind the dashboard (along coil running length).
6. To further diagnose it, they require the car for two days. They will top of AC gas, put a 10ml colour solution which will colour the leakage point. Then they will require a full day to unmount dashboard, replace part and remount dashboard. Estimated cost 15K (Range)

My Gripe
1. I am unable to bite the fact that car with practically zero running over 4 plus years has this issue, with all service done on time.

Your Two Cents........
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Old 18th May 2013, 19:36   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyjagga View Post
I am unable to bite the fact that car with practically zero running over 4 plus years has this issue, with all service done on time.
You answered the cause of the problem yourself, see the a/c system of a car uses multiple rubber seals in every joints of the plumbing and they are lubricated by the oil which flows along with the refrigerants of the system. If the a/c is not used frequently them these seals won't be lubricanted and eventually lose thier sealing property, even some car manufactures recommends to use a/c once a week even in winter to prevent the same. Don't worry it wont be a,major problem, some seal seems to be gone.
PS- Mods kindly move the thread to technical section.
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Old 18th May 2013, 19:54   #3
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Default re: Car Aircon Problem

Sometime very low usage also results in rubber seals going brittle which subsequently can cause a leakage.

Does the estimate that Toyota has given (15k) include fixing the problem too? or it is just for the diagnosis?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyjagga View Post
6. To further diagnose it, they require the car for two days. They will top of AC gas, put a 10ml colour solution which will colour the leakage point. Then they will require a full day to unmount dashboard, replace part and remount dashboard. Estimated cost 15K (Range)
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Old 18th May 2013, 20:05   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EFF-EIGHT-BEE View Post
You answered the cause of the problem yourself, see the a/c system of a car uses multiple rubber seals in every joints of the plumbing and they are lubricated by the oil which flows along with the refrigerants of the system. If the a/c is not used frequently them these seals won't be lubricanted and eventually lose thier sealing property, even some car manufactures recommends to use a/c once a week even in winter to prevent the same. Don't worry it wont be a,major problem, some seal seems to be gone.
PS- Mods kindly move the thread to technical section.
Thank you, this may be the reason.
I have installed the color solution and topped off Gas. I have decided to drive the car for next couple of days. Monitor the cooling and if it goes low I'll schedule the service appointment. They will look for colour leakage through AC coils with use of a "colur gun". That's the plan pretty much!

Quote:
Originally Posted by infotech58 View Post
Sometime very low usage also results in rubber seals going brittle which subsequently can cause a leakage.

Does the estimate that Toyota has given (15k) include fixing the problem too? or it is just for the diagnosis?
As per Toyota service manager they charge 400 rupees per hour labour charge. UnMounting/mounting dashboard is 4 hour job one way. Plus part/ seal change.
I have paid INR 1.5k for AC gas top off, comp. oil and colour solution. So yes round about 15K.

Last edited by Eddy : 19th May 2013 at 18:45. Reason: Please use the edit / multiquote option instead of posting back to back posts within 30 mins on the same thread. Thanks.
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Old 19th May 2013, 08:29   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyjagga View Post
As per Toyota service manager they charge 400 rupees per hour labour charge.
Presuming your car to be out of warranty an independent a/c mechanic is always a better bet.
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Old 19th May 2013, 08:42   #6
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Default re: Car Aircon Problem

My car has the same problem with the AC

When i give it for service the gas was topped up and it worked properly for 2 weeks. Then suddenly there was lack of cooling

The AC guy said that it has to be a leakage with the cooling coil as there is no leakage in engine bay.

Again the AC stopped cooling after useage of about 1 month. The gas was filled again and it worked again for a good 900 kms but after that again no cooling

This time the compressor was checked as the leak was happening from it. It was overhauled by a specialist and all O rings and oil seal were replaced

I was charged 3.5k for the complete job including removing and fitting of compressor

So for you an independent AC specialist would work out better instead of A.S.S.


Forgot to add that even I was told by the AC specialist that since the AC was not used for long periods the oil seal and O rings gets hardened and give up. I had not used AC in my car for months during winter. When the AC is used the oil inside the compressor lubricates the oil seal and rings and prevent them from getting hard

Last edited by rikhav : 19th May 2013 at 08:45.
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Old 19th May 2013, 09:16   #7
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Default re: Car Aircon Problem

Seems that the Altis suffers from this inherent leakage problem. My car too developed the same issue within 6 months of its purchase.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post3105437 (My new Toyota Altis D-4D: The first one on TBHP! Pics on pg 5)
Have got 2 gas fills done till now and there has been no leak detected yet in the engine bay. They suspect that there is a leak in the cooling coil as that is the only part left to be examined. Will get it checked the next time the AC stops working since have to give them the car for 2-3 days. Also I would suggest getting it done at the dealer itself since it involved taking out the whole dashboard. You dont want to risk a loose screw here and there which will cause rattles later on.
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Old 19th May 2013, 09:35   #8
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Default re: Car Aircon Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Seems that the Altis suffers from this inherent leakage problem. My car too developed the same issue within 6 months of its purchase.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post3105437 (My new Toyota Altis D-4D: The first one on TBHP! Pics on pg 5)
Have got 2 gas fills done till now and there has been no leak detected yet in the engine bay. They suspect that there is a leak in the cooling coil as that is the only part left to be examined. Will get it checked the next time the AC stops working since have to give them the car for 2-3 days. Also I would suggest getting it done at the dealer itself since it involved taking out the whole dashboard. You dont want to risk a loose screw here and there which will cause rattles later on.

Sorry for the confusion.
My car is not a Altis but a fiat siena. It developed such problems after 8 years of use and that too because I had not used the Ac for few months at a stretch

Its surprising the problem occurs in a 6 month old Altis specially when Toyota cars are known for their quality standards
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Old 19th May 2013, 09:47   #9
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Default re: Car Aircon Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Seems that the Altis suffers from this inherent leakage problem. My car too developed the same issue within 6 months of its purchase.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post3105437 (My new Toyota Altis D-4D: The first one on TBHP! Pics on pg 5)
Have got 2 gas fills done till now and there has been no leak detected yet in the engine bay. They suspect that there is a leak in the cooling coil as that is the only part left to be examined. Will get it checked the next time the AC stops working since have to give them the car for 2-3 days. Also I would suggest getting it done at the dealer itself since it involved taking out the whole dashboard. You dont want to risk a loose screw here and there which will cause rattles later on.
Same thing is happening with me. Yes I do agree with you, ASS is better bet here. I have seen all bays of MGF Toyota at Gurgaon and the service technicians and equipment are professional level.
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Old 19th May 2013, 09:47   #10
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Default re: Car Aircon Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by rikhav View Post
Its surprising the problem occurs in a 6 month old Altis specially when Toyota cars are known for their quality standards
The car is reliable other than 2 major issues:
1. Frequent wear out of brake pads and discs specially the rear ones.
2. Ac gas leakage from cooling coils.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyjagga View Post
Same thing is happening with me. Yes I do agree with you, ASS is better bet here. I have seen all bays of MGF Toyota at Gurgaon and the service technicians and equipment are professional level.
Yea true. Infact for that sole reason I didn't let them open the dash here in Vadodara as the small service centre ( compared to the outlets in Delhi) did't inspire enough confidence. Hence will probably drive down and get the car back to Delhi when the problem occurs again and get the dash opened there. Luckily my car is still under warranty.

Last edited by drmohitg : 19th May 2013 at 09:50. Reason: adding text
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Old 19th May 2013, 09:55   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rikhav View Post

Its surprising the problem occurs in a 6 month old Altis specially when Toyota cars are known for their quality standards
Nothing is surprising in our country. I have seen people driving there indica virtually trouble free. A close acquaintance has Safari with No issues for 3 years.


But humour apart Altis is surprisingly boring. Drives trouble free, not an enthusiastic car. This is my second corolla, apart from AC issue,no trouble at All.
jack of all, master of none!
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Old 19th May 2013, 10:45   #12
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Default re: Car Aircon Problem

Gas leaking out from Coil is a common problem across cars.
Faced the same problem in my Linea as well.
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Old 19th May 2013, 11:10   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyjagga View Post
Nothing is surprising in our country. I have seen people driving there indica virtually trouble free. A close acquaintance has Safari with No issues for 3 years.


But humour apart Altis is surprisingly boring. Drives trouble free, not an enthusiastic car. This is my second corolla, apart from AC issue,no trouble at All.
jack of all, master of none!

Yeah thats what.
TATA cars which are known to use cheaper car parts sometimes survive without any issues and here we have an example of a Toyota Car which is worldwide known for its reliability has issues so soon in its life

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
Gas leaking out from Coil is a common problem across cars.
Faced the same problem in my Linea as well.
When it happens with a 6 month old car its obvious that the quality of the part is not up to the mark.
More surprising it happens in a city like Delhi which has a dry climate comparing Mumbai

I stay near to the sea. The outer coils of the window ac's in home almost turn into powder within 4 to 5 years
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Old 19th May 2013, 14:30   #14
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Default re: Car Aircon Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyjagga View Post
I Have encountered a problem in my 2008 Altis. 1. Today I noticed the AC was not cooling to it's potential after a 15KM drive. After a while cooling completly fell low.
When I took it to service center, car was diagnosed with AC gas pressure of 150 (Don't know the unit), the normal should be 500-550.
5. 1. I am unable to bite the fact that car with practically zero running over 4 plus years has this issue, with all service done on time.

Your Two Cents........
Jimmy Pashao,

I have had torrid issues with my old 2003 Corolla AC and battled it for more than 15 months.

You can check my observations in a thread that I had created under Technical Stuff.

I find it impossible to believe that an Altis can throw up ac issues so quickly.Not acceptable

Meanwhile a few points to check(for free):

1.is your air recirculation button on in recirculate position?If no please put it on.
2.set the temperature to 22-25deg.C - it should be set at least 5 deg.C below the outside temperature for you to feel the ac chilling.
3.If the technician told you the compressor discharge(or high side) pressure was only 150psig , that is v.low and a sure shot sign of leakage.Idellay you should see approx 40psig on suction(low side) and 350-400psig at discharge(high side).
4.If this is indeed a cooling coil leak , i'm sorry to say but Toyota quality can be well described as history.

Since you say the problem started approx 20kms after service , kuch daal me kaala hai !!!!!

Last edited by vigsom : 19th May 2013 at 14:31. Reason: addition
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Old 19th May 2013, 17:28   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vigsom View Post
Jimmy Pashao,

I have had torrid issues with my old 2003 Corolla AC and battled it for more than 15 months.

You can check my observations in a thread that I had created under Technical Stuff.

I find it impossible to believe that an Altis can throw up ac issues so quickly.Not acceptable

Meanwhile a few points to check(for free):

1.is your air recirculation button on in recirculate position?If no please put it on.
2.set the temperature to 22-25deg.C - it should be set at least 5 deg.C below the outside temperature for you to feel the ac chilling.
3.If the technician told you the compressor discharge(or high side) pressure was only 150psig , that is v.low and a sure shot sign of leakage.Idellay you should see approx 40psig on suction(low side) and 350-400psig at discharge(high side).
4.If this is indeed a cooling coil leak , i'm sorry to say but Toyota quality can be well described as history.

Since you say the problem started approx 20kms after service , kuch daal me kaala hai !!!!!
I have written to Toyota Head office India. Waiting for a follow up. Problem starting 20 km after servicing is my issue, with them
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