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Old 30th May 2013, 00:25   #16
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

http://www.clubvw.org.au/vwengines

Just scroll down the link, you will find CBZ as 77Kw / 105HP

I have driven the car for around 100KMS and I dont know if its 90 or 105HP but definitely feels faster than a regular hatchback. I will post an ownership review soon.

My engine code is CBZ D2####(thats from the insurance and invoice). Checking the ECU is the best option though. I will try to find it out soon.

Last edited by robimahanta : 30th May 2013 at 00:50.
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Old 30th May 2013, 00:44   #17
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

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Originally Posted by kbk_75 View Post
So I just verified with a 90 PS 1.2 TSI Polo owner in Denmark and their car has a CBZC engine as well.
I hope I'm wrong and I hope VW has some simple explanation to put all this to rest, but I will certainly not accept this car if the claimed power output differs from the actual engine's.
.
Hi Karl,
I checked up my engine number, it's CBZD!! While reading the manual on the day I got the car, I did notice that only CBZB and CBZC were mentioned as TSI engines(in the range of 66-77kW), for some reason I chose to ignore it assuming its an India specific designation. If it would have turned out to CBZC, would have woken me up from my slumber earlier. I am glad you noticed it and brought it up here and I pray that VW has a valid reason for this mix up.

I did try to decode CBZD/CBZC online, but wasn't successful. I only found references for CBZA and CBZB. I hope CBZD is not below 66kW as well.

But checking up my RC, I found irregularities including the no.of cylinders as 3 and engine power as 77'BHP' and the Type of Body as Sedan. When I collected it yesterday, I just verified my VIN and Engine no. at the dealership and left, as i was in a hurry. I am really disappointed at myself now.
Is there a process to correct this, and can I hold my dealer responsible for this? (I will get it done, once the confusion over the engine number is settled)

Cheers,
D.

This is what the User manual shows WRT engine numbers.
Attached Thumbnails
VW Polo GT TSI : 90 or 105 PS power?! Clarified: pg 5-image.jpg  


Last edited by delta5 : 30th May 2013 at 00:48. Reason: Added additional info.
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Old 30th May 2013, 00:58   #18
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Somebody put speed or speed 97 in the car, plug in vcds rosstec and do a log of 0 to 100kmph timing. Could just be a new engine code.
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Old 30th May 2013, 01:16   #19
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by robimahanta View Post
http://www.clubvw.org.au/vwengines

Just scroll down the link, you will find CBZ as 77Kw / 105HP

I have driven the car for around 100KMS and I dont know if its 90 or 105HP but definitely feels faster than a regular hatchback. I will post an ownership review soon.

My engine code is CBZ D2####(thats from the insurance and invoice). Checking the ECU is the best option though. I will try to find it out soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by delta5 View Post
Hi Karl,
I checked up my engine number, it's CBZD!! While reading the manual on the day I got the car, I did notice that only CBZB and CBZC were mentioned as TSI engines(in the range of 66-77kW), for some reason I chose to ignore it assuming its an India specific designation. If it would have turned out to CBZC, would have woken me up from my slumber earlier. I am glad you noticed it and brought it up here and I pray that VW has a valid reason for this mix up.

I did try to decode CBZD/CBZC online, but wasn't successful. I only found references for CBZA and CBZB. I hope CBZD is not below 66kW as well.

But checking up my RC, I found irregularities including the no.of cylinders as 3 and engine power as 77'BHP' and the Type of Body as Sedan. When I collected it yesterday, I just verified my VIN and Engine no. at the dealership and left, as i was in a hurry. I am really disappointed at myself now.
Is there a process to correct this, and can I hold my dealer responsible for this? (I will get it done, once the confusion over the engine number is settled)

Cheers,
D.

This is what the User manual shows WRT engine numbers.
CBZD! Wow! I'm stumped now. I've been actively looking into this engine code business today and I've seen no mention of CBZD! This gives me SOME hope that it's just some weird engine code numbering system VW India has got into.

It's a bit stupid of them to have an engine code like CBZC (which is the engine code on the car reserved for me!) when the same code is for this engine in a lower state of tune, but with two of you having CBZD engines...dunno what to make of it, tbh.

Thanks for sharing your info, I'll wait for a couple more owners to chip in and ask VW to clarify further tomorrow.

Edit: Robi, to clarify, CBZ is the 1.2 TSI engine. It comes in three KNOWN power output forms, A (86 PS), B (105 PS) and C (90 PS). All three engines are mechanically identical, only the ECU is different and that determines the power and torque ratings for the engine. Your and Delta's cars are the first I've seen any mention of a CBZD engine code. What got me worried in the first place is that the car I was to be delivered had a CBZC engine code, which is the code for the 90 PS engine, not the 105 PS version. I am copy-pasting the engine number identification info below, for your reference.

"Starting with the letter C, new four digit engine codes have been introduced. The first 3 digits denote the mechanical design of the engine and are stamped on the engine as before. The fourth digit denotes the performance and torque rating of the engine and depends on the engine control unit -J623-. The four digit engine code can be found on the identification plate, the vehicle data sticker and on the engine control unit."

Edit #2: Could you guys please verify the engine number physically, just so there is no confusion? Clearly we can not rely on what is written on the RC papers / card. Thanks.

Last edited by kbk_75 : 30th May 2013 at 01:30.
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Old 30th May 2013, 01:31   #20
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

Google seems to be ignorant of any VW engine with the code CBZD. Couldn't even find any remote reference about the CBZD engine code. The closest i got was an auto forum, probably from romania, that has a mention of this CBZD TSI engine. Have attached a screen shot. Sorry for the bad translation as google could translate only so much.

According to this, this CBZD code is given to TSI engines manufactured by SEAT, a subsidiary of VW based in spain. Don't know the authenticity though.
Attached Thumbnails
VW Polo GT TSI : 90 or 105 PS power?! Clarified: pg 5-octavia-2-fl-1.2-tsi-problems-page-71-octavia-2-vwforum.ro.png  

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Old 30th May 2013, 03:13   #21
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbk_75 View Post
CBZD! Wow! I'm stumped now.. what the User manual shows WRT engine numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prithwi-81 View Post
Somebody put speed or speed 97 in the car, plug in vcds rosstec and do a log of 0 to 100kmph timing. Could just be a new engine code.
Well I believe we are making this too much of an issue. I am sure VW (the entire VAG group) wont risk doing such a thing considering the bad reputation they have when it comes to service.

Guys just enjoy the car. i have been enjoying the 1.8TSi for over 50000KMS and now the 1.2TSi has impressed me as well. Especially with the terrific DSG combination.

A beautiful cabin

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Just to be sure I ran a VCDS scan and got the engine code as CBZB. There was a bit of a confusion from vehicle data sticker as it mentioned only "CBZ". Well I can get the ECU details in the morning, but frankly I dont care as I have driven it and can feel the power delivery. If by chance it is 90HP than those 90 odd horses are sure on steroids (quoted by bhpian azeemhafiz)

VCDS car log

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The vehicle data sticker (if anyone can deduce it further, it would be great)

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Last edited by robimahanta : 30th May 2013 at 03:16.
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Old 30th May 2013, 07:44   #22
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

Thanks for sharing that info! Your VCDS scan is the surest proof so far that the engine is a CBZB despite what your engine number is labelled as.
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Old 30th May 2013, 08:04   #23
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Mine is CBZC. That is what is written on RC card.
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Old 30th May 2013, 08:16   #24
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

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Originally Posted by drjanakpatel View Post
Mine is CBZC. That is what is written on RC card.
Thanks for sharing that. My car at the dealership also has a CBZC engine number. Internationally the CBZC VW engine number implies a 90 PS version of the 1.2 TSI engine.

I have just spoken with a Volkswagen person and been assured that the Indian Polo GTs are all equipped with a 105 PS engine. He also confirmed that a written response to the email I sent them seeking clarification will be provided.

I am hopeful that this is simply a case of misleading engine numbers on (some of) the Indian Polo GTs. In any case, I will also run a VCDS scan on the car that has been booked for me at the dealership and share the results from that as well.

Last edited by kbk_75 : 30th May 2013 at 08:17.
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Old 30th May 2013, 08:24   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbk_75 View Post
I am hopeful that this is simply a case of misleading engine numbers on (some of) the Indian Polo GTs. In any case, I will also run a VCDS scan on the car that has been booked for me at the dealership and share the results from that as well.
I'm still learning the ropes, what is a VCDS scan and how to get that done at the dealership.

Last edited by thiagust : 30th May 2013 at 08:25.
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Old 30th May 2013, 08:26   #26
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbk_75 View Post
I am hopeful that this is simply a case of misleading engine numbers on (some of) the Indian Polo GTs. In any case, I will also run a VCDS scan on the car that has been booked for me at the dealership and share the results from that as well.
It would be great if you could do a dyno run as well.

That will put everything to rest.
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Old 30th May 2013, 08:33   #27
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
It would be great if you could do a dyno run as well.

That will put everything to rest.
A rolling road dyno run will not prove anything unless we know how much the power loss percentage due to the DSG gearbox is. The power figures quoted by manufacturers are the figures the engine produces at the crank, not those at the wheels of the car.

In any case, does anyone know of a reputed workshop with a dyno in Pune or Bombay for that matter?

VCDS is the VAG Com Diagnostic Software used by cars under the VW group, such as Volkswagen, Audi, Skoda, Seat etc. The authorised service centres always have a computer with the software on it to read the fault codes from the car's on board computer. The software can also be purchased privately.

Last edited by kbk_75 : 30th May 2013 at 08:40.
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Old 30th May 2013, 08:52   #28
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbk_75 View Post
So I just verified with a 90 PS 1.2 TSI Polo owner in Denmark and their car has a CBZC engine as well. This firmly points to the fact that the so called Polo GT's engine is the 90 PS version of the 1.2 TSI mill. And yes, this would explain the slower than expected acceleration figures that Autocar India got.

I hope I'm wrong and I hope VW has some simple explanation to put all this to rest, but I will certainly not accept this car if the claimed power output differs from the actual engine's.

POLO GT OWNERS PLEASE CONFIRM WHAT THE FIRST FOUR LETTERS OF YOUR CAR'S ENGINE NUMBER IS. THANK YOU.
The best proof would be to get a dyno done on at-least 5 different polo GT at a couple of different dyno centers across india. This should yield a fool proof report with which when the VW india is confronted with cannot deny or escape.If its indeed 90 ps engine then the power at the wheels will be less than 90PS which will hit the nail on its head!

Man, if this is really true then we will have a mother of all cases of fraud in the indian automobile industry! VW will be sued their pants off ! LOL
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Old 30th May 2013, 09:41   #29
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

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True but if you see ~70PS on the dyno, it's safe to assume that's it's 90PS whereas anything close to 90PS would confirm that the motor is 105PS.

I believe in Mumbai you have KS MotorSports that has a dyno.
Yes, you're right, a chassis dyno should make it at least somewhat apparent whether an engine is making more than 90 PS or not because there is a 16.67% (fairly substantial) jump from the 90 to the 105 PS motor. It would probably be impossible to tell the difference between a 90 PS and an 86 PS motor though.
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Old 30th May 2013, 09:55   #30
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I have checked mine it is CBZD.
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