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Old 30th May 2013, 09:58   #31
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berry View Post
I have checked mine it is CBZD.
Thanks for sharing the info. So we have three CBZD cars and two CBZC cars so far. I wonder what nomenclature VW India is using for the engines.

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Originally Posted by robimahanta View Post
I can dyno the car if someone pays the 3000 bucks for it.
However, I would much rather dyno my modded laura again than the polo.
I will take however take some engine measurement logs with the polo and put it over here if its of any help
I wouldn't dyno a new car that belonged to me EVEN IF you paid me to!
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Old 30th May 2013, 10:08   #32
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I would like some clarification on this issue from VW fast. They could officially clarify this by email to the mods. In the meantime how can we check what output our cars have besides the dyno. I dont have a dyno facility in my town. May be someone could dyno the TD car.

If my car is really 90ps then VW better be prepared.

Last edited by drjanakpatel : 30th May 2013 at 10:10.
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Old 30th May 2013, 10:39   #33
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

Mine is CBZD from the documents. Need to check the engine, but I guess it wouldn't be different as the RTO tallied the documents with the engine during registration.
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Old 30th May 2013, 12:31   #34
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbk_75 View Post
Can all TSI owners confirm their engine numbers please (just the first four letters)?

I just discovered that my car (that I have not yet taken delivery of) has an engine number that begins with CBZC. Did some digging around and the CBZC engines are 90 PS versions, NOT 105 PS. The 105 PS engines are CBZB and the 86 PS versions CBZA.
!
here's the wiki entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...petrol_engines

relevant extract:
DIN-rated motive power & torque outputs
63 kilowatts (86 PS; 84 bhp) @ 4,800 rpm; 160 newton metres (118 lbf·ft) @ 1,500-3,500 rpm — CBZA; Volkswagen Golf Mk6 (05/10->), Audi A1
66 kilowatts (90 PS; 89 bhp) @ 4,500 rpm; 160 newton metres (118 lbf·ft) @ 1,500-3,500 rpm — CBZC; Volkswagen Polo (05/11->)
77 kilowatts (105 PS; 103 bhp) @ 5,000 rpm; 175 newton metres (129 lbf·ft) @ 1,550-4,100 rpm — CBZB

Last edited by sridhu : 30th May 2013 at 12:33.
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Old 30th May 2013, 12:32   #35
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

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Originally Posted by kbk_75 View Post
Thanks for sharing that. My car at the dealership also has a CBZC engine number. Internationally the CBZC VW engine number implies a 90 PS version of the 1.2 TSI engine.

I have just spoken with a Volkswagen person and been assured that the Indian Polo GTs are all equipped with a 105 PS engine. He also confirmed that a written response to the email I sent them seeking clarification will be provided.

I am hopeful that this is simply a case of misleading engine numbers on (some of) the Indian Polo GTs. In any case, I will also run a VCDS scan on the car that has been booked for me at the dealership and share the results from that as well.
As the difference between the CBZC and CBZB is in the ECU i believe running the scan and reading the engine code there would give the actual engine code. Maybe the engine numbers are random? As sourced from whichever factory that comes it from.

The pic i posted earlier is from the service training, so if the scan returns CBZB its 77KW.
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Old 30th May 2013, 14:41   #36
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

In VCDS you can do logging of Block 120. Put in the logs into this file and voila Engine/Crank dyno graph. Details on how to do this in the link.
http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds/tour/logging.html
Attached Files
File Type: xls Block_120_Tutorial.xls (59.0 KB, 146 views)
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Old 30th May 2013, 18:56   #37
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Take a TD of a petrol car with 90ps like the Etios or Liva Sportivo. Both these cars, though not rev monsters, have perky engines and you should be able to tell instantly if your car feels similar.
To be honest, this would be anecdotal at best. I would expect a 7 speed DSG equipped car with 90 PS to easily out accelerate a manual car with the same power output.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSarker View Post
3) During TD, I braked extremely hard to check the concerns for lack of discs at the rear, there was an intermittent shuddering from the pedal the likes of which I have felt in a 1991 E 220 when the ASP failed and the traction sign kept blinking. Is it the same reason?
- That was the ABS that activated to prevent your tyres from locking-up. It is normal.

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Originally Posted by DSarker View Post
4) If I were to change the rubbers, what would be best suited to the power delivery of the car?
- I am looking for tyres with grippier rubber myself, but I am having a hard time locating any in the sizes I want. This BS marked tyre business has really ruined the tyre market over the past twelve months.

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Originally Posted by DSarker View Post
5) Any advice on the inspection before registration or delivery that's not mentioned in the TBHP buying guide? And what freebies should I ABSOLUTELY insist on, considering that this car is gonna make me go hungry for a year..?
- I just went and saw the car that was meant to be mine. There were THREE dents on the roof pillar and I have refused the car on those grounds alone, notwithstanding my on-going enquiry into the engine of the car. PLEASE thoroughly check the car in broad daylight before they register it in your name. The dealership's people appeared surprised to see the dents, as though they had not noticed them before. Had I not noticed them, I would have accepted a damaged vehicle as brand new!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSarker View Post
6) Am I the only guy who has ACTUALLY lost sleep over the imminent arrival in the family?
- You're in great company!


Update: I went to the dealership to check the VCDS info on the engine this morning. Instead I discovered that the car had three dents on the roof pillar, even though it was brand new. I was deeply disappointed to see this and informed the GM that I could not accept a brand new car that had been damaged, whether or not they could "fix" the dents.

As regards the engine info, I checked the placard on the engine and that car's engine number is, indeed, CBZCxxxxx. We then plugged-in the VCDS and it registered the car's chassis number, but no further info came up on the screen and the system failed to retrieve any other data from the car's on-board computer. The tech then manually entered the model into the VCDS system and that is when I noticed what MIGHT be VW India's numbering system for the engine, though I have not received official confirmation on this.

He first chose the model as "Polo", then chose the engine spec as "1.2 TSI", then chose the year as "2013 (D)". This is where I noticed that the other options were 2010 (A), 2011 (B), 2012 (C). So it COULD be that VW India has it's own engine numbering system, where they are using the first three letters of the international code, in this case CBZ, and then appending a letter based on when the engine was made (or imported?). This is pure guess-work on my part for the moment, I am still awaiting official confirmation from VW.

Regardless, the VCDS info was therefore manually entered as the system was unable to pull the data from the car's on-board computer and, hence, no further details were derived through this method. When I asked the tech why the system didn't pull up the details automatically, his reply was, "We have to manually enter the info for all cars, this is how it is"

At any rate, I have rejected the car that was reserved for me, based on the body-work damage itself and now have to wait another 3 weeks or so before the next Flash Red Polo TSI will be available. Hopefully the engine mystery will be resolved well before that date.

Last edited by kbk_75 : 30th May 2013 at 19:02.
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Old 30th May 2013, 22:35   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbk_75 View Post

I don't understand your point, to be honest. What do you gain by doing it? If you're just trying to compare two cars, sure, it might be fun, but in this context it doesn't confirm anything, it's just seat-of-the-pants stuff.

What I am looking for is a concrete confirmation of the engine's power output, not a comparison vs a car with an entirely dissimilar drivetrain.
Do the vcds logging, its the only sure way to find out. VCDS logs dont lie. Anyone with a tsi in delhi, let me know and I will do it for you.
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Old 30th May 2013, 22:45   #39
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by prithwi-81 View Post
Do the vcds logging, its the only sure way to find out. VCDS logs dont lie. Anyone with a tsi in delhi, let me know and I will do it for you.
I tried today Prithwi, see my earlier post. Did you have to manually enter the car model info when you logged-on to the VCDS system as well or did the car's OBD "talk" to the VCDS and upload the info automatically?
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Old 30th May 2013, 22:49   #40
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

The methodology below is usually applicable to Chassis/VIN numbers wherein rolling alphabets/numerals denote years/months etc. The outcome of your investigation will provide the clarity required vis a vis VW's coding system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbk_75 View Post
He first chose the model as "Polo", then chose the engine spec as "1.2 TSI", then chose the year as "2013 (D)". This is where I noticed that the other options were 2010 (A), 2011 (B), 2012 (C). So it COULD be that VW India has it's own engine numbering system, where they are using the first three letters of the international code, in this case CBZ, and then appending a letter based on when the engine was made (or imported?). This is pure guess-work on my part for the moment, I am still awaiting official confirmation from VW.
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Old 30th May 2013, 22:56   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbk_75 View Post

I tried today Prithwi, see my earlier post. Did you have to manually enter the car model info when you logged-on to the VCDS system as well or did the car's OBD "talk" to the VCDS and upload the info automatically?
Not the vw vcds logging. Find someone with rosstech vcds software in your area and take the car to them. They will know what I am talking about.
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Old 30th May 2013, 23:13   #42
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbk_75 View Post
I tried today Prithwi, see my earlier post. Did you have to manually enter the car model info when you logged-on to the VCDS system as well or did the car's OBD "talk" to the VCDS and upload the info automatically?
Quote:
Originally Posted by prithwi-81 View Post
Not the vw vcds logging. Find someone with rosstech vcds software in your area and take the car to them. They will know what I am talking about.
Prithwi is right, the service centres use VAS which is not at all intuitive. The report I had posted is using my own RossTech VCDS cable. Its an automated process and hardly takes 5 mins. I can cross check any Bangalore cars out there if anybody wants to do that. I even activated a few simple features with it.
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Old 30th May 2013, 23:26   #43
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by prithwi-81 View Post
Not the vw vcds logging. Find someone with rosstech vcds software in your area and take the car to them. They will know what I am talking about.
Gotcha! Don't know anybody with one atm, but a friend of mine is in the process of picking one up. I'm waiting to hear back from VW officially too, hopefully we will soon get to the bottom of this whole issue!
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Old 30th May 2013, 23:49   #44
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

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Originally Posted by delta5 View Post
Hi Karl,
I checked up my engine number, it's CBZD!! While reading the manual on the day I got the car, I did notice that only CBZB and CBZC were mentioned as TSI engines(in the range of 66-77kW), for some reason I chose to ignore it assuming its an India specific designation. If it would have turned out to CBZC, would have woken me up from my slumber earlier. I am glad you noticed it and brought it up here and I pray that VW has a valid reason for this mix up.
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Originally Posted by kbk_75 View Post
CBZD! Wow! I'm stumped now. I've been actively looking into this engine code business today and I've seen no mention of CBZD! This gives me SOME hope that it's just some weird engine code numbering system VW India has got into.
Hi guys. Just chanced upon the Wildon's thread on VIN decoding and came across @delta5's request for his VIN. Wildon had posted the pdf for that VIN of delta5. Though delta5 has said his engine code is CBZD, in the details that WILDON produced, its written clearly as CBZB. @kbk_75 you can also try decoding the VIN to find the engine no. possibly Wildon could help you. Here is a screen shot of delta5's car details.

Sorry @delta5 that i used your car details without your permission.
Attached Thumbnails
VW Polo GT TSI : 90 or 105 PS power?! Clarified: pg 5-picture.png  

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Old 31st May 2013, 10:02   #45
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Default Re: Volkswagen Polo 1.2L GT TSI : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by drpudhi View Post
Hi guys. Just chanced upon the Wildon's thread on VIN decoding and came across @delta5's request for his VIN. Wildon had posted the pdf for that VIN of delta5. Though delta5 has said his engine code is CBZD, in the details that WILDON produced, its written clearly as CBZB. @kbk_75 you can also try decoding the VIN to find the engine no. possibly Wildon could help you. Here is a screen shot of delta5's car details.

Sorry @delta5 that i used your car details without your permission.
Hey thanks and no issues drpudhi,
I had saved a copy of that PDF, but didnt check it again. BTW, I checked up with other GT owners in my town two of them had CBZD and a new one with the dealer had CBZC and so was the TD car. So I think Karl was right, this is some farce by VW India and those engines are perfectly fine. Karl, please go ahead with your purchase (Ofcourse make them get you a new vehicle).

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Originally Posted by Rajesh Rawal View Post
Would love to see similar reactions from our fellow mumbai(june 1/2) tbhp members

http://www.youtube.com/watch
I saw this video on VW facebook post, though I am not sure why VW is doing this, the car shown in the video seems to be the R cup edition which has a 1.4TSI and has 75 more horses. Is this a drive to promote the Polo GT or TSI engines generally? Or is there a chance we will get a Polo GTi 1.4 TSI soon?

Keep Calm and Live to Drive!!
Cheers
D.
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