Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 23rd June 2013, 14:28   #16
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 192
Thanked: 96 Times
Default re: Adulterated diesel costs Audi A6 owner Rs 4.11 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soumyajit9 View Post
I have never been a highway traveler, so I have very less knowledge or experience how these dealers fleece customer with underrated service/products.
I would suggest everyone who is a highway traveler to please follow HVK's forum and travelogues to be doubly sure of the safe places on highways.
P.S: I am not advertising, but just that HVK is a reliable source of highway information.
AFAIK from my Mumbai / Pune days (albeit a few years back), this pump is considered to be quite reliable.

In fact a favourite of cabbies since prices were lower than Mumbai / Pune.
chinkara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2013, 16:22   #17
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 47,763
Thanked: 89,526 Times
Default Re: Adulterated diesel costs Audi A6 owner Rs 4.11 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
Concerned to hear that this incident is not covered by insurance?
I'm with the insurance company on this one.

Tomorrow, if you mistakenly fill scooter oil in a Merc S-Class, should the insurance pay? Absolutely NOT.

The policy's primary purpose is to protect you from $$$ damage in accidents, theft and third party claims.
GTO is offline   (8) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2013, 17:01   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
nitrous's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UAE/Lon/Madras
Posts: 6,966
Thanked: 282 Times
Default Re: Adulterated diesel costs Audi A6 owner Rs 4.11 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I'm with the insurance company on this one.

Tomorrow, if you mistakenly fill scooter oil in a Merc S-Class, should the insurance pay? Absolutely NOT.

The policy's primary purpose is to protect you from $$$ damage in accidents, theft and third party claims.
+1
Imagine if I had a 200,000 km run diesel engine and I "by mistake" fill it up with petrol.
nitrous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2013, 17:14   #19
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Sheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Purnea(Bihar)
Posts: 5,210
Thanked: 4,846 Times
Default Re: Adulterated diesel costs Audi A6 owner Rs 4.11 lakhs

And, won't the fuel system (if that is what needs to be replaced) cost Rs. ~ 4L in a Car costing Rs. ~ 60L? I am not surprised by the cost in this incident.
Sheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2013, 17:16   #20
Senior - BHPian
 
shankar.balan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: BLR
Posts: 8,027
Thanked: 5,326 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post

I'm with the insurance company on this one.

Tomorrow, if you mistakenly fill scooter oil in a Merc S-Class, should the insurance pay? Absolutely NOT.

The policy's primary purpose is to protect you from $$$ damage in accidents, theft and third party claims.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post

+1
Imagine if I had a 200,000 km run diesel engine and I "by mistake" fill it up with petrol.
I beg to differ on this particular case, going by the report that appears on this thread. If an unsuspecting consumer goes into a 'Company Owned and Operated' fuel pump and fills in the normal fuel which is required for his or her vehicle and then subsequently it is found that the fuel is adulterated which has resulted in severe damage to the vehicle, then I would certainly deem it a case for insurance and the consumer courts.

Another thing, if the petrol pump attendant had mistaken stuck the petrol nozzle into the Diesel car and filled it up with the wrong type of fuel, then it seems to me that it is a highly moot point in ref it being an 'accidental occurrence'!

Hence I would not be quite so quick to judge as you both appear to have done, above!

(Having said all of the above, it might be a good idea for us vehicle owners/ users to read the fine print as it appears on one's Insurance Policy especially in reference to damages if any, caused by 'fuel' and the like.)
shankar.balan is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2013, 17:19   #21
Team-BHP Support
 
Akshay1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 9,762
Thanked: 6,670 Times
Default Re: Adulterated diesel costs Audi A6 owner Rs 4.11 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
And, won't the fuel system (if that is what needs to be replaced) cost Rs. ~ 4L in a Car costing Rs. ~ 60L? I am not surprised by the cost in this incident.
60l? No way. If its a 2.0tdi then its around 38. Also this engine isn't any exotic engine. Like I mentioned its used in everything from the Laura onwards. A fuel system on a 15l car cannot be 4l.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post

Another thing, if the petrol pump attendant had mistaken stuck the petrol nozzle into the Diesel car and filled it up with the wrong type of fuel, then it seems to me that it is a highly moot point in ref it being an 'accidental occurrence'!
Petrol being filled instead of diesel, that's one of my thoughts. But then I don't know where the adulterated bit is coming from.
Akshay1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2013, 18:16   #22
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dombivli
Posts: 2,627
Thanked: 1,191 Times
Default Re: Adulterated diesel costs Audi A6 owner Rs 4.11 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soumyajit9 View Post
- What was the level of fuel in the car before it was refuelled ? Minor impurities in the bottom of the car can be carried forward to the filter. But isn't a filter supposed to stop these impurities ?
- The impurities in this case seems to be mud and water. When was the last time the storage tank was inspected for any leakages that could contaminate the stored fuel underground ? I find it hard to believe that someone would adulterate fuel with mud and water !!! Kerosene is a common adulterant for diesel.

- 4.11 lakhs is an exorbitant price for fixing the car. But again, I am sure the doctor would have analyzed the breakdown of charges and agreed to it. Or Audi workshop could be hand in gloves with the doctor for defaming the fuel pump. In this case, Audi is getting defamed itself for being such an expensive to maintain car. lol
The story mentions the doctor claiming (his wife) to have filled diesel worth Rs. 2000/- That should translate to approximately 40+ litres. I don't know how big is the Audi's fuel tank, but more than 40 litres indicates substantial refueling.

As for the Audi dealership being hand in glove with the doctor, I don't think the dealership has pointed a finger at the petrol pump. They simply analyzed the problem, found the cause and produced an estimate for fixing the car up for good. I don't see why they should be involved in this dispute.

And Audi has never (at least for me) had an "economical car to maintain" image.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
... and then subsequently it is found that the fuel is adulterated which has resulted in severe damage to the vehicle, then I would certainly deem it a case for insurance and the consumer courts.

Another thing, if the petrol pump attendant had mistaken stuck the petrol nozzle into the Diesel car and filled it up with the wrong type of fuel, then it seems to me that it is a highly moot point in ref it being an 'accidental occurrence'!
Even if the fuel were adulterated, it would be a dispute between the consumer and the petrol pump, not the insurance company.

Filling petrol in case of diesel, again, is sheer negligence on the part of the consumer. I have seen most petrol pump attendants checking with me on the type of the fuel, specially when I drive the Ikon to the pump. So I think on the whole the pump attendants do try to confirm which type of fuel goes in, in case you are driving a car that's sold in petrol as well as diesel variants. Caveat Emptor!
honeybee is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2013, 18:32   #23
Senior - BHPian
 
shankar.balan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: BLR
Posts: 8,027
Thanked: 5,326 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
40+ litres. I don't know how big is the Audi's fuel tank, but more than 40 litres indicates substantial refueling.

As for the Audi dealership being hand in glove with the doctor, I don't think the dealership has pointed a finger at the petrol pump. They simply analyzed the problem, found consumer. I have seen most petrol pump attendants checking with me on the type of the fuel, specially when I drive the Ikon to the pump. So I think on the whole the pump attendants do try to confirm which type of fuel goes in, in case you are driving a car that's sold in petrol as well as diesel variants. Caveat Emptor!
Caveat Emptor is absolutely correct.
The Audi tank should hold about 60 litres or at least 55. I m surmising because around once a month, I also fill up an absolute full tank of Diesel in my Yeti, which has the same 2 litre TDI engine, which brings me a bill of 2K ish. The Yeti has a 60 litre tank. I generally use around 60 to 80 litres a month.
shankar.balan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2013, 18:44   #24
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,652
Thanked: 244 Times
Default Re: Adulterated diesel costs Audi A6 owner Rs 4.11 lakhs

Some queries which I read here, fuel filter will filter the mud particles but not water, but most diesels will have a water separator + the diesel filter also has a small sump at the bottom to collect water.

But but but if water somehow flows in the pump its an extensive damage to the pump and the injectors and I believe that's the majority of the cost, ofcourse not covered by insurance.
dadu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2013, 19:21   #25
Senior - BHPian
 
Soumyajit9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: 10010
Posts: 1,501
Thanked: 1,665 Times
Default Re: Adulterated diesel costs Audi A6 owner Rs 4.11 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
As for the Audi dealership being hand in glove with the doctor, I don't think the dealership has pointed a finger at the petrol pump. They simply analyzed the problem, found the cause and produced an estimate for fixing the car up for good. I don't see why they should be involved in this dispute.
And Audi has never (at least for me) had an "economical car to maintain" image.
Well, when I say hand in glove, its usually inflated costs and additional parts replacements.
"When a replacement is happening and someone else is paying, why not fix up / replace some seemingly faulty components, which may require a replacement few years down the line."
The actual necessary replacement / fixing the problem could be lesser even !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
Even if the fuel were adulterated, it would be a dispute between the consumer and the petrol pump, not the insurance company.
+1 to this and what GTO and nitrous said too.
Soumyajit9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2013, 20:04   #26
BHPian
 
AbelAFC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: KA-03
Posts: 265
Thanked: 140 Times
Default

Shouldn't there be other cars too which should have been affected by this? I mean, if it stopped within 15 feet, the quality of the fuel must have been appalling.
Its hard to believe the car immediately gave up the ghost as well. Does a well-off doctor allow his expensive German car to run its gas tank dry?
AbelAFC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2013, 20:15   #27
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Melbourne, VIC
Posts: 1,006
Thanked: 651 Times
Default Re: Adulterated diesel costs Audi A6 owner Rs 4.11 lakhs

This is quite interesting. All vehicles do have a fuel filter deployed right from the fuel tank all the way till it gets to the fuel injection system. I strongly feel this may be sorted out by replacing the fuel filter, cleaning the injectors and fuel tank. Though I still feel the injectors should still be clean, leaving the filters clogged. The dirt in the fuel cannot be small enough to pass through the fuel filters as its likely to be mud.
nitinbose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2013, 07:09   #28
SDP
Team-BHP Support
 
SDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,710
Thanked: 7,607 Times
Default Re: Adulterated diesel costs Audi A6 owner Rs 4.11 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I'm with the insurance company on this one.

Tomorrow, if you mistakenly fill scooter oil in a Merc S-Class, should the insurance pay? Absolutely NOT.

The policy's primary purpose is to protect you from $$$ damage in accidents, theft and third party claims.
Beg to differ on this.
Aren't all accidents 'mistakes'? If insurance covers driving mistakes (even by the driver of the vehicle and not only by others), why should insurance not cover adultereted fuel filled up by-mistake?

In my understanding, 'intention' plays a major role in insurance. If one ram his car into a wall and a suicide note is found on the passeger seat, I doubt the insurance company would pick up the tab for repairs.

Just my views. No expertise claimed. I might be completely wrong.

Last edited by SDP : 24th June 2013 at 07:17.
SDP is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2013, 08:46   #29
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 192
Thanked: 96 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post

+1
Imagine if I had a 200,000 km run diesel engine and I "by mistake" fill it up with petrol.
My sister's friend did just that..with predictable consequences.
A $2500 lesson.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDP View Post

Beg to differ on this.
Aren't all accidents 'mistakes'? If insurance covers driving mistakes (even by the driver of the vehicle and not only by others), why should insurance not cover adultereted fuel filled up by-mistake?

In my understanding, 'intention' plays a major role in insurance. If one ram his car into a wall and a suicide note is found on the passeger seat, I doubt the insurance company would pick up the tab for repairs.

Just my views. No expertise claimed. I might be completely wrong.
What is mandatory is third party insurance...i.e. your mistakes costing others. AFAIK First party insurance in India is optional, and by inclusion, i.e. the insurance company defines what will be covered; rather than by exclusion, i.e. the company defining what will not be covered.
So not just fuel adulteration, but other stationary "accidents" are also difficult to claim. I remember a colleague had a hard time claiming for a windshield broken by a falling coconut.

That is why sometimes service centres concoct elaborate stories for insurance.

So, I support GTO's view that insurance has no role here. However, I still can't get over the 15 feet thing and can't help suspecting that either the earlier fill was bad or there was a leak somewhere in the fuel system.

Last edited by Zappo : 25th June 2013 at 16:48. Reason: Back to back posts merged
chinkara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2013, 09:51   #30
BHPian
 
latentpotential's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: IIM, Ahmedabad
Posts: 502
Thanked: 376 Times
Default Re: Adulterated diesel costs Audi A6 owner Rs 4.11 lakhs

Can this really be the outcome of a single tank fill? Perhaps this may have been something that occurred over a period of time, and just a coincidence that the car went kaput at the precise spot outside a usually well reputed pump?

Maybe some of our experts can shed more light on this, as this would usually be an accumulation over time.

Side Angle: Sabotage by somebody, which took effect later?
latentpotential is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Our Audi A6 with multiple problems.. UPDATE: CD stuck by owner, Audi repairs for free Harbir The Indian Car Scene 167 10th August 2014 11:29
Car Break Down due to Adulterated Petrol! netarchie Street Experiences 44 6th August 2010 17:00
100 BHP+ Diesel Sedan under 10 lakhs - Booked Verna CRDI SX (ABS), now under 9 lakhs newcoolgadgets Sedans 84 16th September 2009 21:28
Dhoni's Kawasaki costs 17 lakhs??? Shan2nu Superbikes & Imports 26 4th September 2006 10:41
Adulterated fuel causes damage to my Skoda! karthik247 Technical Stuff 129 21st July 2006 15:11


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 16:49.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks