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Old 25th June 2013, 22:02   #61
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Default Re: Adulterated diesel costs Audi A6 owner Rs 4.11 lakhs

Poor fuel will be taken from the bottom 5% of a refinery settling tank, so will contain more impurities. If the settling tanks aren't drained of water/dirt sufficiently often then this will build up to the point a fuel tanker may be loaded with wet, dirty fuel. And this fuel could be distributed evenly among filling stations, or concentrated in just a few depending on local conditions.

If a filling station's tanks have just been filled, there should be a delay before fuel is allowed to be pumped out - so that sediment and water, disturbed when the tanks were filled, is allowed to settle back to the bottom.

edit - I think there is a little Audi-hating going on here (the same happens in the UK, we are plagued with a certain sort of massively-aspirational person driving round in newish, silver Audis - they used to be the BMW brigade) but in reality contaminated, wet fuel will rapidly damage any diesel engine with a common rail setup. Obviously a massive fuel filter would accept more free water and dirt, but this would still succumb to bad fuel.

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Old 26th June 2013, 11:52   #62
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Default Re: Adulterated diesel costs Audi A6 owner Rs 4.11 lakhs

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Originally Posted by FlatOut View Post
. Obviously a massive fuel filter would accept more free water and dirt, but this would still succumb to bad fuel.
I do not think any fuel filter, massive or not, will do anything to the water. For that you need a water separator.
I was doing up some reading, and it seems there are two versions of Fuel filters in use in Audi/VW cars. One has a wider mouth which is to be used with a sedimeter. The other version has no provision for the water separator.
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Old 26th June 2013, 13:31   #63
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Default Re: Adulterated diesel costs Audi A6 owner Rs 4.11 lakhs

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Its not about the owner profile - its about our screwed up system where fuel pump owners can adulterate with impunity. No wonder so many Indians want such simple vehicles - that was my point. If I was someone living in rural areas with suspect fuel supply, I would be deeply suspicious of the fancy new age engines. In fact, when i started looking for a car initially in 2007, the accent CRDi was off my list simply because of the whole story about its fuel pump etc (which is something i independently verified with a friend in bosch).

But yes, I'm in no way insinuating that both vehicle buyers are similar in any way!
I completely agree with you on that! When i was hunting for a new car some months back, i considered the Hyundai i20 Diesel, the Swift Diesel and the Optra Diesel (my personal favourite) but then finally zeroed in on the Bolero because i live in a semi-rural area and travel to rural areas all the time. Often i find myself low on fuel and in front of a lone diesel pump for the next 100 kilometeres and so i have to fill up! I have absolutely no option!!

Even after zeroing on the Bolero, i spoke to the service station advisor who showed me a Bolero M2Dicr which had its injectors failed due to the fact that the fuel tank had almost 50% of water mixed in it. Understanding the type of travelling i do, he asked me to book a DI which he said would run on anything; Diesel, Diesel-Kerosine mix, Diesel-Water mix and never complain (He was exaggerating a little ofcourse). But my point is- in this country when we cannot rely on anything right from a politician's word to free-of-pesticides vegetables to the quality (and quantity) of fuel obtained from fuel pumps, its better to stick to simple technology which does not self-destruct when it is hit with impurities, sediments and contamination.

4.11 Lakhs!!! Gulp!
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Old 26th June 2013, 18:54   #64
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Default Re: Adulterated diesel costs Audi A6 owner Rs 4.11 lakhs

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I do not think any fuel filter, massive or not, will do anything to the water. For that you need a water separator.
I was doing up some reading, and it seems there are two versions of Fuel filters in use in Audi/VW cars. One has a wider mouth which is to be used with a sedimeter. The other version has no provision for the water separator.
Every VW group fuel filter I have ever bought has included a water separator/trap in its base to collect and store free water (and sediments which don't become trapped in the element), which can be drained out through a threaded drain hole. There aren't many diesel fuel filters which don't incorporate a water trap in their base.

Manufacturers often produce two variations of a component, one of which is heavy-duty. If the heavy-duty filter unit isn't up to the job of collecting water, even with draining every few hundred km, then fit two (or more) filter units in parallel (not in series).

Those of us using waste cooking oil for fuel often junk the filter and filter head and replace with an item from a Discovery 300TDi. In the UK, we can buy filters for this for as little as a tenth of the cost of other filters - plus, it's a bigger unit.
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Old 28th June 2013, 14:55   #65
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Default Re: Adulterated diesel costs Audi A6 owner Rs 4.11 lakhs

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Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
Also Audi cannot wash off its hands 'if' it has not taken into account the lower quality of fuel available in India and provided safety measures in their cars so that the same does not harm the engine. If you have to sell your cars in India you have the responsibility to provide India compatible cars.
These cars are good to run on your normal diesel available throughout the country. The quality of diesel itself varies widely but you don't need anything specific like speed or Hipower or any additives to do the daily duty. but saying that they still can't take adulterated fuel or the military grade diesel quality, which can choke up even your 10L car.
I own a Q5 2.0Tdi myself and have done a lot of highway driving filling up at highway pumps but because i am always worried about the suspect quality of fuel at our pumps especially the highway ones i only fill up as much to reach my next destination maybe for Rs. 500 or 1000. that way i hedge my bets.

Last edited by mavrikm5 : 28th June 2013 at 15:15. Reason: spelling
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Old 29th June 2013, 04:25   #66
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Default Re: Adulterated diesel costs Audi A6 owner Rs 4.11 lakhs

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Actually they would all qualify as attempts at malapropism. Hoards, on the other hand, was a resounding success.
Aha, you are right!
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Old 29th June 2013, 09:21   #67
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Default Re: Adulterated diesel costs Audi A6 owner Rs 4.11 lakhs

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Originally Posted by mavrikm5 View Post
...
I own a Q5 2.0Tdi myself and have done a lot of highway driving filling up at highway pumps but because i am always worried about the suspect quality of fuel at our pumps especially the highway ones i only fill up as much to reach my next destination maybe for Rs. 500 or 1000. that way i hedge my bets.
Just curious: If the diesel you fill up at these pumps is adulterated, or more specifically contains water, wouldn't the water accumulate in the tank this way? If it does, then this really isn't going to save you in the long run, and then the only option would be to remove and clean the tank once in a while.
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Old 29th June 2013, 13:06   #68
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Default Re: Adulterated diesel costs Audi A6 owner Rs 4.11 lakhs

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Just curious: If the diesel you fill up at these pumps is adulterated, or more specifically contains water, wouldn't the water accumulate in the tank this way? If it does, then this really isn't going to save you in the long run, and then the only option would be to remove and clean the tank once in a while.
Thing is before i came across this thread, i never knew about the water in diesel concept. this is my first diesel. but have always been wary of diesel adulteration on highways, in city though i have the tank filled up only at same pump always.

I will now try and checkup on the type of filter/sedimenter in my car.
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Old 29th June 2013, 18:07   #69
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Default Re: Adulterated diesel costs Audi A6 owner Rs 4.11 lakhs

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Originally Posted by honeybee View Post
Just curious: If the diesel you fill up at these pumps is adulterated, or more specifically contains water, wouldn't the water accumulate in the tank this way? If it does, then this really isn't going to save you in the long run, and then the only option would be to remove and clean the tank once in a while.
As I mentioned in a previous thread, water and other contaminants are indeed likely to accumulate at the tank bottom (if they are heavier than the fuel), especially if the car is driven steadily and not thrown about. If you run the tank very low there is a risk of the engine ingesting these accumulations. If you run the tank low, then fill it there is a good chance the flow of fuel into the tank stirs it up - if you just put a quarter of a tankful in then it is very likely the fuel going down the lines to the front of the car will be very dirty. The faster the fuel pumped in, the more chance of the dregs being stirred up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mavrikm5 View Post
Thing is before i came across this thread, i never knew about the water in diesel concept. this is my first diesel. but have always been wary of diesel adulteration on highways, in city though i have the tank filled up only at same pump always.

I will now try and checkup on the type of filter/sedimenter in my car.
Contabulation with water and sediment happens to all fuel, it's just that diesel engines are far less tolerant of water than their petrol cousins, especially the latest variety.
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