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Old 23rd July 2013, 18:13   #31
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Default Re: Horrible BMW 520d ownership experience. Many issues, including brake failure!

Hi Sandeep, PSagar and everyone else!
Thanks for you concern and your support.

As per the Engine number, I enquired with BMW Service manager, and he said they have embossed the same engine number on the new one, as the old one is returned back to the company and has been dismantled. Dont buy this completely but will check it out!
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Old 23rd July 2013, 18:13   #32
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Originally Posted by 2000rpm View Post
I think BMW here has matched Skoda, if not worse!

We get better service and reliability from products which are 10 to 15 times cheaper (read Alto). I totally understand your plight and emotions as I have suffered similar experiences with Fiat in recent past!

However, the BMW Brand value certainly must stand for much more!

With respect to replacements of parts, I think its unacceptable. With such experiences the entire car ownership experience is spoilt. Will you be able to love a car which has spent more time at the service station than at your home? Will you have the confidence in the car to do high speeds (sealink experience), or take the car for long journeys (where BMW service stations will be hundreds of miles away)
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The least we expect from a new purchase (be it mobile, car, bike, LCD) is that it runs fine for atleast the first year without any problem. The term "German Engineering" is fantastic but without "Japanese Reliability" (or even maruti reliability) they are no good.

Look at the usage pattern described for the car. Its used very well in excellent driving conditions and failures like brakes are dangerous. Its like a PhD failing in a 4th standard exam.


Such incidents sometimes remind me of a dialogue from the Movie Fight Club [/i]
Wow, never really saw it that way. I like the story. Sounds PLausible

Having owned a BMW i can assure you of 2 things.
1. This is a rare case - I'm not defending BMW in any way. I completely agree that this was very poorly handled to say the least and BMW have gotten away very easily thanks to innocent customer. I do feel BMW should've replaced the car given their top of the line after sales image compared to the other 2 germans.

2. German Cars are not half as reliable as japanese. And they will never be. We have to learn to live with that. I would go as far as saying, German cars are as unreliable as Americans, maybe even more. These cars need a lot of care and tending unlike the JAps which you can drive over potholes and waterlogged roads with ease. I guess thats one of the things that The Germans and Us Indians still have some disagreement on. The Germans, still have to make Indianized cars, which are more rugged. That'll only happen once they start producing in India. It is an absolute shame that our market continues to Accept these cars even after they are overcharging us.

But i do think the camparison with SKODA seems unfair. I have read the SKODA horror stories on this forum and they have done some nasty stuff to their customers. Replacing original parts with duplicates, not returning cars for 2 years?

Moreover, again from personal experience i say this, maybe 1 in every 4-5 skodas is prone to these breakdowns and reliability issues. It is the worst car brand that exists. BMW, has a long long way to go before they stoop down to SKODA level

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Originally Posted by sandeep108 View Post
I am no lawyer and neither am I employed by BMW. Things sometimes do go wrong. All I said was that at least they replaced the failed parts instead of repairing them and are attending to his complaints and provided him with a loaner which is in most cases is a lot more than others do.

It is a machine, built by humans - things can fail. If you buy high-end cars in India it is a matter of fact that parts / repairs can take time to resolve. While some other dealers may help, by and large most of them will simply raise their hands and do nothing or some jugaad, even though it is under warranty. My new Civic had umpteen problems and spent an initial almost 10-15 days with the dealer (and I never got a loaner), but once they were fixed, I enjoyed my car thoroughly.
.
I think the key difference here may be, that Honda actually FIXED your car. BMW has only made it worse everytime.

I don't think it is justified to Say its a machine it can fail. Mr. Acharya has undergone his share of troubles and repairs before posting this. If the machine continues to fail every few days in a completely new area, then the company needs to be held responsible. It can Fail once or twice.
His car has spent almost half of the ownership time in the workshop. That's a little unjust don't you think?

Last edited by moralfibre : 23rd July 2013 at 22:02. Reason: Back to back posts.
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Old 23rd July 2013, 18:23   #33
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Default Re: Horrible BMW 520d ownership experience. Many issues, including brake failure!

Hi bharat,

What you are going through is certainly sad. Not because things went wrong, any product can develop faults, but because how BMW has handled the case.

What I am going to suggest will raise some brows but here it goes .

Take the legal route.

I always here people complaining that India needs a lemon law and people end up fighting for ages and they loose more money in retaining a lawyer than they would get in compensation and so on and so forth.

However what we all need to realize is that laws don't get made on their own. Until and unless someone keeps their foot down and decide to take proper legal action against big corporates, such malpractices will continue to grow. Precedents need to be made out of such cases so that manufacturers can take a learning.

Rather than us saying that if this would have been the USA or UK, BMW would have been forced to give a hefty compensation, let us take out time to think and retrospect on why are American clients handled differently ? Its the same car then why this differential treatment. The answer is extremely simple. We would rather settle it outside than get to the courts and settle it the proper way.

I urge you to take BMW to court. You have been given a malfunctioning product which has already put your families life at risk .No one would feel safe in it anymore.

Hire a good lawyer, yes he would charge but you will also get a good amount of compensation and a replacement . Do not settle for less.

It is your right, FIGHT FOR IT.

Last edited by Enigmatic : 23rd July 2013 at 18:26.
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Old 24th July 2013, 00:08   #34
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Default Re: Horrible BMW 520d ownership experience. Many issues, including brake failure!

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It is your right, FIGHT FOR IT.
Very true. When laws are written by judgements a suite is the only way to fix the Law.

We refer to the English law that was pre-independance, things will change only when consumers will haul the manufacturers to court.

BMW has not been fair at all in dealing with the issue. By what I read here, it looks like a common practice for BMW to replace the engine. Hello! that too by embossing same engine number.

I don't believe it is legal. The RTO must be notified about this practice.

Engine numbers are hammered at the manufacturer and no two engines can have the same number. Some manufacturers even maintain the history of the engine up to the level of the technician who assembled it.
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Old 24th July 2013, 00:42   #35
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You could fight for compensation - but you should have started that process when your brakes failed since that endangered your life.
But you should definitely dash off a few mails to the media highlighting this, a premium manufacturer like BMW shouldn't be allowed to get away with brake failure in a 50L sedan just cause they're in India. I'm sure there is a paper/TV channel/tabloid who'd love your story.

Whatever route you pursue, good luck. =)
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Old 24th July 2013, 00:52   #36
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Default Re: Horrible BMW 520d ownership experience. Many issues, including brake failure!

thanks guys for your much needed support...
I've written to a few magazines/news channels and to the consumer court as well.

Hoping to get a reply from them soon. Will keep you posted as soon as there is any new development!
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Old 24th July 2013, 10:51   #37
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Default Re: Horrible BMW 520d ownership experience. Many issues, including brake failure!

Its really unfortunate that this is happened and having to have to refer to your the car as a lemon by itself makes me feel bad.Hopefully everything will be sorted out.
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Old 24th July 2013, 10:54   #38
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Default Re: Horrible BMW 520d ownership experience. Many issues, including brake failure!

You should have sent them a legal notice. Both at the dealership and to BMW India. Threaten to take them to court for this matter. An engine replacement so early on in the lifetime of a BMW means that you were given a faulty car. Chances are very low that you'd end up with one, but you were one of the unlucky ones.
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Old 24th July 2013, 11:11   #39
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Default Re: Horrible BMW 520d ownership experience. Many issues, including brake failure!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bharat Acharya View Post
Hi Sandeep, PSagar and everyone else!
Thanks for you concern and your support.

As per the Engine number, I enquired with BMW Service manager, and he said they have embossed the same engine number on the new one, as the old one is returned back to the company and has been dismantled. Dont buy this completely but will check it out!
This is not acceptable in my opinion. They simply want to avoid the RTO hassles. Engine number is embossed from factory and cannot be removed and new one embossed!!! You will have to keep following up.

Finally it is up to you - if you continue to be unhappy and your car is unreliable, take legal steps or shout in all the forums you can. They must realise that they need to improve and cannot take us customers for granted.

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Originally Posted by Bluebeem View Post
I think the key difference here may be, that Honda actually FIXED your car. BMW has only made it worse everytime.

I don't think it is justified to Say its a machine it can fail. Mr. Acharya has undergone his share of troubles and repairs before posting this. If the machine continues to fail every few days in a completely new area, then the company needs to be held responsible. It can Fail once or twice.
His car has spent almost half of the ownership time in the workshop. That's a little unjust don't you think?
BMW also seems to be fixing stuff, but new areas crop up. Quite similar to my Civic. In my first month, 15-20 days were spent in the workshop. They did not have the parts, they were diagnosing by trial and error and new issues cropped up and at the end of the day they offered nothing. But I still bought another Honda (Jazz) few years later.

It is unjust and they should make up for it by extending the warranty, etc.

Also as you stated, the Germans do have reliability issues globally as compared to the Japanese and if one buys one, one must be prepared for it. GTO had enough issues with his C, there was a story about Audi hassles, Skoda and VW are aplenty.

But knowing this you still bought a BMW. Would you buy again, say a few years down the line?
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Old 24th July 2013, 11:21   #40
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Originally Posted by sandeep108 View Post
But knowing this you still bought a BMW. Would you buy again, say a few years down the line?
It is the same as you with your civic. Inspite of the problems you've grown to love it.

And I personally have had no problems with my car. I do not know anybody who has too! BMW continue to have the best in class service cost and backup in the form of BSI ultimate. No hassles for 5 years.

There's also someone from siliguri on team bhp who's 330i is being replaced by BMW because the problem has persisted. They're giving him the new F30 328i I suppose.

The above case is a rare one. So is the one mentioned by Mr. Acharya. Could happen to the best of us owning any car.

The Beamer remains the most beautiful car I've owned till date. And I would buy it over and over provided they continue to make such driver focused machines and I continue to make the money for it
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Old 24th July 2013, 11:35   #41
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Default Re: Horrible BMW 520d ownership experience. Many issues, including brake failure!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bharat Acharya View Post
As per the Engine number, I enquired with BMW Service manager, and he said they have embossed the same engine number on the new one, as the old one is returned back to the company and has been dismantled.


Would you ask them to show proof of shipment? BTW I still keep wondering how on earth a faulty engine paves way for a brake failure. AFAIK brake boosters are less effective when the engine is off or stalled but you were cruising at 100 kmph..
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Old 24th July 2013, 11:46   #42
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Default Re: Horrible BMW 520d ownership experience. Many issues, including brake failure!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bharat Acharya View Post
As per the Engine number, I enquired with BMW Service manager, and he said they have embossed the same engine number on the new one, as the old one is returned back to the company and has been dismantled. Dont buy this completely but will check it out!
I've heard about this too, so it may be right. But my personal opinion is that since your car is over 6 months old it is going to be extremely difficult to get a replacement. What you can push for is the 5 year BSI package. Also please do use the car more, 1500kms in 6 months is not much, and believe it or not more use is better for these cars than letting it stand still.

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Originally Posted by Bluebeem View Post

There's also someone from siliguri on team bhp who's 330i is being replaced by BMW because the problem has persisted. They're giving him the new F30 328i I suppose.
I think he was considering buying a new car, and BMW was not replacing his car or anything.
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Old 24th July 2013, 13:24   #43
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Default Re: Horrible BMW 520d ownership experience. Many issues, including brake failure!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bharat Acharya View Post
Hi Sandeep, PSagar and everyone else!
Thanks for you concern and your support.

As per the Engine number, I enquired with BMW Service manager, and he said they have embossed the same engine number on the new one, as the old one is returned back to the company and has been dismantled. Dont buy this completely but will check it out!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeep108 View Post
Engine number is embossed from factory and cannot be removed and new one embossed!!!
Bharat, I fell sorry for this. Hope you get justice. Refuse to take the car. You have paid 50L and its no joke. However what Sahil has said is right. You should not have allowed for an engine replacement.
I have shared your thread to my friend who was about to make payment for a 530d. he has shown the same to the SE and they said this is a rare case. My friend just lost it and told them to wake up and not just concentrate on selling.

Sandeep, are you sure?

I have a 2012 Swift zdi that has a new engine with the same engine number.

Last edited by beejay : 24th July 2013 at 13:32.
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Old 24th July 2013, 14:02   #44
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Default Re: Horrible BMW 520d ownership experience. Many issues, including brake failure!

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Sandeep, are you sure?
I think he means VIN number, and not engine number. The VIN is stamped on the body of the car in a few places.
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Old 24th July 2013, 14:08   #45
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Default Re: Horrible BMW 520d ownership experience. Many issues, including brake failure!

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Originally Posted by Bharat Acharya View Post
thanks guys for your much needed support...
I've written to a few magazines/news channels and to the consumer court as well.

Hoping to get a reply from them soon. Will keep you posted as soon as there is any new development!
Hi Bharat ! Sorry to hear about this bitter episode. Amongst the magazines you have written to, is 'Right Choice' one of them ? If not I would urge you to write to them as I have heard that they provide support in resolving issues. Worth a try.
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