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Old 29th July 2013, 23:18   #1
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Default Oil Leak & Sump Damage

I have a 2011 polo tdi as my daily drive.
I have been noticing some oil leak since the last few days, finally got it towed to the service centre today, on inspection it was found out that the engine sump was damaged and the engine oil had leaked out, I have driven around 50 kms after the hit IIRC, however the engine was behaving perfectly normal, no weird noises and no loss of power or anything, the engine check light or low oil warning also didn't come up.

The service centre guys tell me that they need to inspect the engine probably by ripping it apart to check for internal damage.

I want to know that should I just let them fiddle with the engine or ask them to replace the sump and refill oil and check first? basically I want to know if there is a way to gauge if there is any internal damage or no without ripping the block open?

Another thing I want to know is that how much damage might have been caused and the costs involved in the repairs? and if my insurance would cover the internal damage to the engine?

Also I want to know that if the engine check light or low engine oil level light didn't come up, how is one supposed to know that there is any sort of engine damage or oil leakage and take the necessary precautions?

Because if the light doesn't come up, either its the manufacturers fault or the engine shouldn't have sustained any internal damages.

Mods please merge this into an appropriate thread if one exists!
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Old 30th July 2013, 10:46   #2
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Default re: Oil Leak & Sump Damage

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Originally Posted by 599gto View Post
The service centre guys tell me that they need to inspect the engine probably by ripping it apart to check for internal damage.
When you say "engine oil had leaked out" does this mean there was not even a single drop of oil OR Did you try to check oil level using dip stick?

If i was in your place i would just fill oil and do regular service and run the car. Test the car for few thousand kms to find any odd behavior like drop in performance, less kmpl, white smoke etc. Test it for yourself, if problem found then think of opening engine.

"Dont fix it if it hasn't broken yet"
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Old 30th July 2013, 10:51   #3
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Default re: Oil Leak & Sump Damage

I agree with brraj. If the car is working fine and some oil leaked out with no check engine light or low oil light then why meddle by opening up the engine. Leave it as it is.

Replace the sump, fill fresh oil, run a scan and drive it for a few kms observing FE, performance and excessive noise/vibration.
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Old 30th July 2013, 11:19   #4
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Default re: Oil Leak & Sump Damage

I wouldn't recommend fiddling with the engine block. When they say sump damage to you see major dent on it. If you scraped the sump on drive, there could be a dent or misalignment. To be optimistic, might just need a gasket change.

The engine housing is pretty strong enough only a sever hit could crack it. All sensors are usually externally reachable, without having to remove the sump.
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Old 30th July 2013, 11:35   #5
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Default re: Oil Leak & Sump Damage

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Originally Posted by brraj View Post
When you say "engine oil had leaked out" does this mean there was not even a single drop of oil OR Did you try to check oil level using dip stick?

If i was in your place i would just fill oil and do regular service and run the car. Test the car for few thousand kms to find any odd behavior like drop in performance, less kmpl, white smoke etc. Test it for yourself, if problem found then think of opening engine.

"Dont fix it if it hasn't broken yet"
Thank you for the advice, by leaking I meant it was dripping continuously drop by drop, even till the car was towed to the ASS and raised for inspection, my hunch is that there might have been enough oil till the time the engine was last switched off by me because there was no engine check light or any abnormal behaviour from the car or engine, you views?

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
I agree with brraj. If the car is working fine and some oil leaked out with no check engine light or low oil light then why meddle by opening up the engine. Leave it as it is.

Replace the sump, fill fresh oil, run a scan and drive it for a few kms observing FE, performance and excessive noise/vibration.
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Originally Posted by HillMan View Post
I wouldn't recommend fiddling with the engine block. When they say sump damage to you see major dent on it. If you scraped the sump on drive, there could be a dent or misalignment. To be optimistic, might just need a gasket change.

The engine housing is pretty strong enough only a sever hit could crack it. All sensors are usually externally reachable, without having to remove the sump.
Thank you all for replying, the sump does have a major crack but nothing that would let the engine oil flow out, it was just dripping at most. However, the sump will need to be replaced, going by your suggestions ill ask the ASS to replace the sump and put in new oil and run a scan. Thank you again and do put in more inputs if any!
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Old 30th July 2013, 11:37   #6
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Default re: Oil Leak & Sump Damage

Do you have any photos? That will show the extent of the impact.

Secondly, they would have drained the oil to replace the sump. How much oil was there? Depending on the oil left inside you can see if it was enough to cause any damage.
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Old 30th July 2013, 11:48   #7
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Default re: Oil Leak & Sump Damage

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Originally Posted by 599gto View Post
Thank you for the advice, by leaking I meant it was dripping continuously drop by drop, even till the car was towed to the ASS and raised for inspection, my hunch is that there might have been enough oil till the time the engine was last switched off by me because there was no engine check light or any abnormal behaviour from the car or engine, you views?
So you have not used dip stick to find the oil level, anyways following all the above suggestions should be fine.
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Old 30th July 2013, 12:36   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 599gto View Post
Thank you for the advice, by leaking I meant it was dripping continuously drop by drop, even till the car was towed to the ASS and raised for inspection, my hunch is that there might have been enough oil till the time the engine was last switched off by me because there was no engine check light or any abnormal behaviour from the car or engine, you views?

Thank you all for replying, the sump does have a major crack but nothing that would let the engine oil flow out, it was just dripping at most. However, the sump will need to be replaced, going by your suggestions ill ask the ASS to replace the sump and put in new oil and run a scan. Thank you again and do put in more inputs if any!
If sump is expensive go for Gas welding. It's just a metal case to hold oil.
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Old 30th July 2013, 12:45   #9
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Default re: Oil Leak & Sump Damage

Hey 599gto,

You know what?? I was in the same situation about 2 months ago. Actually what happened is that I went to a MASS for an oil change and of course the oil filter too. This was not the usual MASS that my car is used to, but since it was an oil change only and this was very close to my home, I thought what can go wrong. But I was actually wrong. They guys screwed up a simple job like oil change. They damaged the oil filter while installing it with the wrench itself. The holes which were small grew when I pushed the engine hard. As opposed to the sump, oil leaks from the filter only when the engine is running, i.e.. while the oil is circulating through the filter. (Hence you surely need to check that the leak is from the sump only & not from the filter; as sumps are hard to damage).

When I parked my car overnight in my parking spot, it was lying in a small pool of oil; about 100-150 ml may be. I immediately checked the level on the dip stick which showed ZERO oil. I was scared to the core as I hard parked my car last night with about 20 Kms of real hard run. Similar to yours, the car showed no signs of tiring, overheating, any check lights, oil pressure lights, nothing. It was all normal and it idled nicely when I parked.

I called my regular MASS people; they came with a filter, a canister of engine oil and a filter wrench. They immediately checked then & there told me that the filter is damaged and in all probability during the installation. However, they told me that if things were fine when I switched off the car, then it should not be too much scary. They installed the new filter, poured in new engine oil and she came to life as usual with a single flick of key.

Though, since it was not long ago, but I have covered about 1000 kms since then with No issues at all. FE, performance all normal and this is coming from a finicky guy: Me!

Hence the moral of the story is that do no rip it apart immediately. Pour in fresh oil, look for unusual sound like harsh noise, etc. and see if the driveability & FE is normal. If all the above is good, you should be fine. In worst case, there can be harsh noises or the engine would lock up completely, but that looks unlikely to happen from your post.

You can read my experience here:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post3143666 (Maruti Ertiga VDi - Engine oil leak. EDIT : Issue resolved on Page 3)

Last edited by saket77 : 30th July 2013 at 12:47.
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Old 25th August 2016, 19:26   #10
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Default Re: Oil Leak & Sump Damage

I had a lucky escape with this issue. My car has been leaking oil for quite some time (a puddle of oil seen in the parking) and the engine also has been making some noise. I ignored it thinking ill get it repaired when I have the time. With the oil still leaking, I made 2 Mumbai-Pune trips as well. Finally when I got it checked, it turns out that there was no engine oil at all. I must have been really lucky to just get it to the mechanic on time. Cause turned out to be the oil filter which was probably damaged by something hitting it from below. Got it changed and the engine was sounding a lot better. Even a days delay could have led to engine seizure. The low oil indicator did not light up to indicate anything is wrong. Lucky break I guess.
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Old 1st March 2017, 17:27   #11
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Default Re: Oil Leak & Sump Damage

Just happened to see this thread, and thought I will update with my experience the other day.

I usually give my cars' underbody a good look every now and then after a long drive, so the other day in my diesel Swift, noticed oil spread around the upper portion of the sump near the joint where it meets the engine block. I left the car as it is overnight but didn't see any puddle of oil in the morning. And didn't notice ANY unnatural sound, or any warning light either. The dip-stick level looked fine as well.

Drove it to INDUS Maruti, and they lifted the car, and said that the seal on the sump is loose/ damaged, and they will fix it.
Steps taken:
1. Lift the vehicle
2. Drained the oil into a jerry can.
3. Opened out the sump from the engine block. It's secured by a thousand screws.
4. Cleaned out the sump and another securing mechanism which I didn't quite catch, by a WD40-like spray can.
5. Applied a greenish paste on top of the sump-can.
6. Waited for 2 minutes, and fixed it back.
7. Re-filled the same oil. They said no need for fresh oil, or a top-up.
8. Fixed back the other items, like a few brackets here and there.

Total time- 40 minutes
Total damage - INR 300

No idea why anybody would want to open up the engine to rectify a sump damage.
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Old 1st March 2017, 17:41   #12
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Default Re: Oil Leak & Sump Damage

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Originally Posted by MalluDude View Post
No idea why anybody would want to open up the engine to rectify a sump damage.
If the damage is extensive and there is no sufficient oil left out in the pan, there are possibilities that the engine internals might get damaged due to lack of (or) no lubrication.
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Old 1st March 2017, 17:43   #13
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Default Re: Oil Leak & Sump Damage

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Originally Posted by MalluDude View Post
7. Re-filled the same oil. They said no need for fresh oil, or a top-up.
Refilling oil drained from the sump is a mistake. The sump is where all metal particulate matter and by products from the combustion process including moisture accumulate.

When you drain the oil these contaminants are carried out with it. It is one of the reasons why car manufacturers suggest draining oil when the engine is warm, not cold. The idea is to trap as many contaminants as you possibly can in the oil and expel them from the engine oil sump.

So, those bright sparks at the Maruti dealership just poured contaminated oil back into the engine!

Next time you drain engine oil NEVER, EVER, reuse it. Always INSIST on fresh oil!

PS - They didn't open up the engine but just took off the sump, put on fresh gasket compound (the green paste) and reinstalled it. This procedure requires them to drain the oil.

Last edited by R2D2 : 1st March 2017 at 17:45.
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Old 1st March 2017, 17:59   #14
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Default Re: Oil Leak & Sump Damage

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Refilling oil drained from the sump is a mistake. The sump is where all metal particulate matter and by products from the combustion process including moisture accumulate.
+1
When the engine oil is relatively new, people tend to reuse the same. BUT, they take necessary caution. My FNG does a simple filtration before the drained oil is refilled (Double layered filter, top magnetic wire mess and bottom a paper, similar to the one used in oil filter) It takes at least 15 mins for 4L oil to get filtered. Let me take a snap of it when I visit for the next time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
PS - They didn't open up the engine but just took off the sump, put on fresh gasket compound (the green paste) and reinstalled it. This procedure requires them to drain the oil.
PS: His question was regarding the initial post, not related to his case in my understanding.
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Old 1st March 2017, 18:07   #15
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Default Re: Oil Leak & Sump Damage

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Originally Posted by Mr.Boss View Post
When the engine oil is relatively new, people tend to reuse the same. BUT, they take necessary caution. My FNG does a simple filtration before the drained oil is refilled (Double layered filter, top magnetic wire mess and bottom a paper, similar to the one used in oil filter) It takes at least 15 mins for 4L oil to get filtered. Let me take a snap of it when I visit for the next time.
Oh well, live and learn. I'd never have thought they'd actually take the pains to filter the oil. This is useful information. Thanks for sharing. But I am not sure if all dealers have this gadget or even consider filtering the oil.

Quote:
PS: His question was regarding the initial post, not related to his case in my understanding.
Ah! My bad. I thought he was referring to his car.
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