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Old 15th October 2013, 17:02   #31
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Default Re: Tata Safari left me stranded, now a hat-trick!

Well just to update this thread:

As per the S.A. the work is in progress and I will be getting the car by Thursday morning. He also said that the oil and filter will have to be changed and I'd have to pay for that.

O.T. After I cam out from the TASS an old gardener lady(working in the garden of the TASS) who had seen me last week giving the S.A. and the rest a earful asked me whether my car was done yet, I told her "does anything get done here on time", The lady with an awkward smile said"these guys will never improve.". Tata if you're reading this, Shame on you!

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Old 15th October 2013, 21:01   #32
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Default Re: Pleasant news.

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Originally Posted by richie4u View Post
Well as per the mechanics this was an issue not with every vehicle but some (unfortunatley mine too) Xenon and Safari's which suffered the same fate as mine, but as per them Tata corrected this with now something called the "f" kit which changes the complete timing kit .As per them no Safari has come back for a long time after this change. How true this is only time will tell.
Hey, that's great news that they're fixing the issue. Just hope it actually works now.

I'm just thinking, going by what Richie has mentioned above, isn't this the kind of thing that warrants a recall?
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Old 17th October 2013, 15:26   #33
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Default Re: Pleasant news.

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Originally Posted by richie4u View Post
Hello to All,

O.T. A team bhpian on the way to Goa in his SX4 was kind enough to stop and offer help. Sorry i could not take you name as I was just heartbroken that time and thank you for stopping. Team-bhpians are truly the best.
Hello Richie, first of all happy to see that you are getting responses from Tata and there is some positive movement. Hope this gets resolved amicably from Tata.

Yes, it was me who was on the way to Sanquelim - north Goa. Apologies for delayed response, I did not notice this post until Prateek pointed me here from sticker spotting thread. I wish you could have told me about water need and I could have handed over at least couple of bottles from my car trunk.

I wish either of us could have had tow rope. We might not have been able to avoid the 18K bill but at least got you to a comfortable place or reliable location where the bill could have been smaller.

Dont worry, these times will get over too

Last edited by abirnale : 17th October 2013 at 15:29.
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Old 17th October 2013, 15:29   #34
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Default Re: Tata Safari left me stranded, now a hat-trick!

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Originally Posted by richie4u View Post
Well just to update this thread:

As per the S.A. the work is in progress and I will be getting the car by Thursday morning. He also said that the oil and filter will have to be changed and I'd have to pay for that.
Good to know that you have some consolation out of this ordeal but this sure leaves a mark on my take on the Safari and Tata for sure.

Reading your initial post i was reeling how fatal things like this could have turned into (touch wood) especially while you were overtaking and suddenly loose complete control of the vehicle, and thank god you had managed to pull the vehicle to side.
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Old 17th October 2013, 20:59   #35
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Default Re: Tata Safari left me stranded, now a hat-trick!

@abirnale, First and foremost a big Thank you for stopping that day.Team-Bhpians like yourself are what team-bhp is all about,always out there to help out each other to their best of ability in time of need. I would have asked you to help me with the water requirement but as I told you that day, a technician from the local TASC had just inspected my vehicle a couple of minutes earlier and had brought us a 1.5ltr mineral water bottle upon our request so we were good and anyways the flatbed had arrived 45 minutes after you left.

Regarding the tow rope,even if I had one it would've been too dangerous on that highway,believe me I had tried towing this mammoth with a tow rope with the help of a Mahindra Getaway and could manage only a few meters cause of the lack of steering and controlling it was too difficult.The only thing that helps in that case is a tow bar.

A couple of lessons learnt from this fiasco:
1) Buy a tow-bar and a tow rope along with the necessary toolkit on out station trips,you never know when it may come handy.

2)A box of mineral water bottles and finger-food basket is an add on to the luggage in such trips compulsorily,after-all what use is an SUV and its huge boot space if you don't make use of it.

3) Always try and stop to help people in distress specially on highways where no help is available. I normally help people in distress in Goa but never dared to stop on my out station trips but now will help out everyone in need.

4) And Most important: my Tata Safari is not leaving Goa's borders ever in its life.


@Pheonix Well the same thoughts left me sleepless that night when I reached home with all "what-if" situations but thank god nothing of that sort happened. But I don't understand one thing, how come Tata Safari's steering becomes so dead and difficult to turn when power goes off. I have used other power steering vehicles which were much easier to steer even if off but the Safari's steering is horrible when its dead and on top of that no brakes as well.

I'd like to ask all of you, Is the same engine in use in the new storme,XUV and is it so unreliable or was my car one-of-case?

Last edited by richie4u : 17th October 2013 at 21:01.
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Old 17th October 2013, 21:42   #36
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^^^ +1 for your patience and thinking

I think completely electric power steerings will give up in such scenarios and revert to regular mode as soon as power is lost. And Safari has EPS hence it became hard on immediate loss of power. I assume the current to EPS is available only when vehicle engine is running or else it is cut off? But I think in any case once the vehicle is in motion, by external force or by itself, steering would not be too difficult. But since you said you had once tried with Mahindra vehicle to pull it, I think tow tape would not have helped then!

Again if the repairs and issue is resolved properly with root cause eliminated, I think you can still cross Goa border!
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Old 17th October 2013, 22:17   #37
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Default Re: Tata Safari left me stranded, now a hat-trick!

Quote:
Originally Posted by roy_libran View Post
Quite sad to hear of your experience(s). One timing belt failure is bad enough for both the engine and the owner, and to imagine that you have suffered 3!
Quote:
Originally Posted by neel385 View Post
The only thing that I can think of is some pulley in the entire line up of pulleys being misaligned because of which the belt at some point is riding the edge of the misaligned pulley thereby causing it to break/tear prematurely. Do get to the bottom of this and let us all know.
I had one in my Indica and it was indeed a case of misaligned pulleys, like our man Neel says. Eversince I switched over to Manza, things have been uneventful over the last 3.5 yers and 55K klicks. No belt shelt or any thing of the sort! I was really planning to graduate to a storme and i stumble on this thread! What's going to happen to die hard Tata fans like me? Should we start driving 407's! BTW planning to go to Leh in my Manza, with full josh!

Last edited by windiesel : 17th October 2013 at 22:37.
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Old 18th October 2013, 14:24   #38
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Default Re: Tata Safari left me stranded, now a hat-trick!

Now for an update:

Went to the TASS today to check upon the car progress, the car has got the new f kit and all HLA's replaced and it starts. But now a new problem.

The technicians had taken the car on a test drive and according to them, the car gives more black smoke then usual,there is a knocking sound heard every now and then.They mentioned that the Injector Calibration will have to be done.

I spoke to Mr. Zuber Khan Pathan,who is the Workshop Manager who told me that Tata wont be covering this, I asked him how is this possible,this problem is an after effect of the timing belt issue and must be covered by them. The vehicle did not have any knocking sounds nor did it have anything to do with black smoke before this happened then why do I pay for something that is caused due to no fault of mine. Secondly this repair will cost upto 20K.

Mr. Zuber also said that when he worked on Safari's with the same problem,90% of the vehicles had to undergo injector calibration and he did mention this to the Area manager,but he told him to first repair the vehicle and then lets see if it was the same case for mine too.

So now I need our suggestions guys as to what should I do next.What are my options.

Last edited by richie4u : 18th October 2013 at 14:29.
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Old 18th October 2013, 20:26   #39
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Default Re: Tata Safari left me stranded, now a hat-trick!

Hi,
For academic interest, would like to know more of the various 'kits' which tried to solve this problem. And did TMC get it right only on the sixth (ver F) try!

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 18th October 2013, 23:40   #40
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Default Re: Tata Safari left me stranded, now a hat-trick!

Quote:
Originally Posted by richie4u View Post
A couple of lessons learnt from this fiasco:
1) Buy a tow-bar and a tow rope along with the necessary toolkit on out station trips,you never know when it may come handy.

I'd like to ask all of you, Is the same engine in use in the new storme,XUV and is it so unreliable or was my car one-of-case?
Missed this: don't believe in TASS ! Even if there is a join the dots type service manual for technicians at TASS, they skip stuffs. Talk to them, question them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by abirnale View Post
^^^ +1 for your patience and thinking

I think completely electric power steerings will give up in such scenarios and revert to regular mode as soon as power is lost. And Safari has EPS hence it became hard on immediate loss of power. I assume the current to EPS is available only when vehicle engine is running or else it is cut off? But I think in any case once the vehicle is in motion, by external force or by itself, steering would not be too difficult. But since you said you had once tried with Mahindra vehicle to pull it, I think tow tape would not have helped then!

Again if the repairs and issue is resolved properly with root cause eliminated, I think you can still cross Goa border!
EPS for Safari?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Hi,
For academic interest, would like to know more of the various 'kits' which tried to solve this problem. And did TMC get it right only on the sixth (ver F) try!

Regards
Sutripta
+ 1
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Old 19th October 2013, 04:07   #41
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Richie I asked them to inspect timing belt last year at 41000 km as preventive measure sa at concord told me that there is slight wear and I should replace whole thinking kit ( retro for was done on my Safari already). I gave go ahead on phone.
Later on inspecting the belt I found out was con job The belt looked perfect bit SA claimed edge is uneven.

They did injector calibration at no extra cost. Whole thing was some 14k.
Injector firing sequence is to be maintained so should be done as part of timing belt job.
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Old 19th October 2013, 06:48   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
EPS for Safari ?
The specs say Rack & pinion power steering and it's my guess like many cars today it could also be a EPS. I have never owned or driven one hence not sure and that is why I had a question mark on that sentence I may be wrong but my thought was - If it's EPS and upon failure it would become kind of manual, hard to steer. Hope I am right but please excuse my lack of knowledge and help clear my understanding. Someone who know safari specs well can of course confirm if it has EPS. Thanks for your valuable comments, jkdas.
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Old 20th October 2013, 17:19   #43
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Default Re: Tata Safari left me stranded, now a hat-trick!

Quote:
Originally Posted by richie4u View Post
Now for an update:

Went to the TASS today to check upon the car progress, the car has got the new f kit and all HLA's replaced and it starts. But now a new problem.

The technicians had taken the car on a test drive and according to them, the car gives more black smoke then usual,there is a knocking sound heard every now and then.They mentioned that the Injector Calibration will have to be done.

I spoke to Mr. Zuber Khan Pathan,who is the Workshop Manager who told me that Tata wont be covering this, I asked him how is this possible,this problem is an after effect of the timing belt issue and must be covered by them. The vehicle did not have any knocking sounds nor did it have anything to do with black smoke before this happened then why do I pay for something that is caused due to no fault of mine. Secondly this repair will cost upto 20K.

Mr. Zuber also said that when he worked on Safari's with the same problem,90% of the vehicles had to undergo injector calibration and he did mention this to the Area manager,but he told him to first repair the vehicle and then lets see if it was the same case for mine too.

So now I need our suggestions guys as to what should I do next.What are my options.

Not true, otherwise they would have done this to all the Safari's retrofitted voluntarily by them, which they didnt, I was there the whole time, its not required if they fitted it properly.
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Old 21st October 2013, 06:37   #44
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Default Re: Tata Safari left me stranded, now a hat-trick!

A standard check that my ASC in Pune (Pandit Auto,Bhosari) carries out is inspection of the timing belt during every servicing. The Manual does not mandate this but the Pandit Auto does this voluntarily ! (This is something that they have learned after many cases of timing belt failures reported from field)

I strongly suggest all 2.2 owners to insist on getting the timing belt checked every 15K. Does not take too much of time and if there is any abnormal wear, can be fixed immediately.
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Old 21st October 2013, 20:41   #45
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Default Update:

Got a mail and confirmation from the Area Service Manager as follows:

Quote:
Sir,

We will take care of injector requirements….

With Regards

Cijin Thomas
Area Service Manager
So now that's a relief, regaining some trust in Tata after all this fiasco.

Went to see the vehicle today,according to the service advisor,the injectors have been forwarded for calibration job and expected in a day or two and will probably get the car back in 3 days(fingers crossed)

So as per the requirement of our forum member Sutripta and for my information too,I asked the technician who did the timing belt job as to the difference in the different kits.

As per him the "F" kit is the current timing belt kit being used in the Storme and used as replacements in all safari's with the problem I had. It consists of the timing belt,pulleys,bolt(part of pulley),tensioner,idler,bolt(part of idler),new back and front covers,and a pump bracket which is stronger(how strong only time will tell).The "D" kit had just the tensioner and the idler with the belt.

Now my question to the Safari owner's, ain't the water pump need to be changed too? I forgot to ask this with the technician so what place better than Team-BHP.

@dadu Thank you for participating in my thread,I'll be sure to ask you any more queries with regards to my problem if required.

@rb2399 Well after the first time, I made it a point to ask the TASS/TASC to check the belt every time I went with the Safari for service,in fact the TASS had checked(?) and stated that the belt was fine and no problems during the last service in August and within 2K kms. this happened.
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