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View Poll Results: I have TRIED IT and have found that ...
It works wonders for my car/bike. I highly recommend it. 22 33.85%
Slight improvement, but I recommend it. 12 18.46%
No difference at all. Don't bother trying this non-sense stuff. 17 26.15%
It screwed my car!!! Stay away from all boron compounds!!! 14 21.54%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 13th June 2008, 16:32   #241
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FT i have sat down and gone through the entire thread post by post and all that i can tell you is it is a very fine gesture that you intend to help others with your theory and those who have tried your theory must be praising you for your efforts and for those who have not benifitted from it, well all i can say is something might have gone wrong somewhere and it would be highly appreciated if you shared your experiences here.
FT carry on the good work and keep us updated of any new additions to your theory and also take all the critisism in a positive manner and take to it as constructive critisism as all new theories are bound to get critisism as no two people will think in the same manner as thus opinions may vary from person to person.

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
abhiK, gd tried boric acid in engine oil method in his scorpio, and during service found "white powder" in oil filter. It appears that boric acid is stopped by the oil filter, and benefits(if any) can't be derived.
Well maybe some the particles of BA that GD put in with the oil could not be crushed or were missed out in grinding/filtering process and these were then caught in the filter.
Also there is no way to know that BA found of the counter is 100% BA, i am very sure a percentage of it might be chalk powder or other substances.
Again looking at the sunnier side GD also expericed positive difference in performance with both his Safari and Scorpio.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 13th June 2008 at 16:43.
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Old 13th June 2008, 16:54   #242
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@tsk1979
Bro i am not from a science background but have my fair share of knowledge about chemical reaction so just a query or maybe a thought from my side. Your earlier posts on the reactions, that ideally boric trioxide is formed and that boron to effectively bond with metal needs temperatures beyond 300*C. But if you have considered temperature and normal atmospheric pressure for the chemical reaction then would'nt the high pressure inside the cylinders, when pistons are in the compression stroke, make the temperature higher than 300*C for the reaction to take place? And this will happen in intervals i.e only when compression takes place so that might explain the fact that the more the car is run the more effective the reaction/process. And also "pressure" also accounts for chemical reactions and their outcomes and in the compression stroke pressure also would be many times atmospheric pressure.
Please explain and also tell if the above is correct or not.

Last edited by abhik : 13th June 2008 at 16:56.
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Old 13th June 2008, 16:55   #243
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White gooey paste to be precise. I didn't continue this treatment after this, however have persisted with acetone. What I would be interested to know is that does some boric powder get dissolved in the oil? If yes, then probably it serves some purpose as some synthetic oils with boron do. If it does not, then are there some particles of very small microns that pass through the filter? That too would serve the purpose.

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
abhiK, gd tried boric acid in engine oil method in his scorpio, and during service found "white powder" in oil filter. It appears that boric acid is stopped by the oil filter, and benefits(if any) can't be derived.
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Old 13th June 2008, 17:14   #244
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Sam,

I agree with your view point.

Lets not exaggarate facts.

Yes adding boric acid to gearbox acts similar to slick oil.

But But... adding to engine! its a strict NO NO.
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Old 13th June 2008, 17:26   #245
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@abhik, we are adding the boric acid to Engine oil, not inside the engine chamber.
The engine oil temperature rarely goes above 200F(95 degree approx) If it goes above that the engine oil will burn.
Hence my point. Also the engine oil itself is not subjected to high compression. High compression happens inside the combustion chamber where only fuel goes.
If you read gd's post, he stopped using Boric acid, and he just uses acetone in the fuel.
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Old 13th June 2008, 17:36   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
@abhik, we are adding the boric acid to Engine oil, not inside the engine chamber.
The engine oil temperature rarely goes above 200F(95 degree approx) If it goes above that the engine oil will burn.
Hence my point. Also the engine oil itself is not subjected to high compression. High compression happens inside the combustion chamber where only fuel goes.
If you read gd's post, he stopped using Boric acid, and he just uses acetone in the fuel.
But the cylinders also get some lubrication right? And thats where the film/deposit should form to reduce friction?
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Old 13th June 2008, 17:49   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abhik View Post
But the cylinders also get some lubrication right? And thats where the film/deposit should form to reduce friction?
Not from inside, but outside.
If any part of the engine oil meets pressure and temperature which can cause boric acid chemical reaction, that part of the engine oil will get burnt.
In a healthy engine, the engine oil should never see those temperatures.
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Old 13th June 2008, 17:49   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gd1418 View Post
White gooey paste to be precise. I didn't continue this treatment after this, however have persisted with acetone. What I would be interested to know is that does some boric powder get dissolved in the oil? If yes, then probably it serves some purpose as some synthetic oils with boron do. If it does not, then are there some particles of very small microns that pass through the filter? That too would serve the purpose.
Ok GD! But end of the day was there a difference in performance or not?
Thats what we are looking for. (w.r.t reduction in noise/vibrations, cooler running temperature, smoother running.)

You did'nt continue to use this treatment but is'nt this a one time treatment?

Boron in microscopic particulate size might be soluble with oil and these particles should be the ones making the bond with metal.

Again looking at the brighter side if particles are getting trapped by the filter then its good as this would ensure no foreign particles disturb working of the oil lines and path. Others that are smaller will help in the process claimed by FT.

Last edited by abhik : 13th June 2008 at 17:57.
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Old 13th June 2008, 17:56   #249
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OT:
Just to makes things a little lighter as things are heating up in this thread.

@GD, @tsk
I guess in the next Delhi meet we should make this thread a madatory topic of disscussion as after a few shots down it would be a real treat to hear wacky POVs and ideas on BORIC ACID
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Old 13th June 2008, 18:33   #250
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abhik,
Thanks for evaluating my experiments in the positive manner.

Well,as time passes I m more inclined towards the benefits such simple yet effective method passes to every rotating parts and machinaries.I went further and used this in tractors,static generator sets(Kirloskar)) and not to forget in my jijaji's brand new wagon R.Result is same again & again.Precaution I took is to run engine instantly after adding this for at least 40 minutes at a stretch.And after 100Km replacing the oil filter and after 2000+ km changing engine oil.
In tractors I found very smooth gear box & also lesser diesel consumption.Its running very smooth.Also in same manner diesel consumption is reduced in generator set.Indeed its passing desired result whether you people agree or not.My jijaji's wagon R is again running differently then normal wagon R in terms of smoothness & power.And beleive me its really a one time treatment.
Most benefits I had seen are in pulsars and honda activas.They just love the these dose.There is marked improvement in smoothness & pick up.
I firmly beleive its the lubricant of future.There will remain friction always that will eat the HP & fuels.This simple method will unlock this power without doing any work.
Well,normally available powder do contain few very very small micron sized particles that helps us.Imagine if we are able to get right sized particle with 99% purity.If particle size is more then it can get trapped in oil filters.But in my all experiments I never found a single oil filter full of powders.These means with pressure inside engine they get carried away from filter membrane too.
In case of gd1418,I think he got problems with fuel filters & not oil filters.And indeed this technique is not supposed to be repeated.
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Old 13th June 2008, 19:13   #251
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@finetuning please check your inbox, i have PMed you a few queries and need your response asap.
I am ready to "borify" my Ikon.
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Old 13th June 2008, 20:13   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finetuning View Post
abhik,
Thanks for evaluating my experiments in the positive manner.

Well,as time passes I m more inclined towards the benefits such simple yet effective method passes to every rotating parts and machinaries.I went further and used this in tractors,static generator sets(Kirloskar)) and not to forget in my jijaji's brand new wagon R.Result is same again & again.Precaution I took is to run engine instantly after adding this for at least 40 minutes at a stretch.And after 100Km replacing the oil filter and after 2000+ km changing engine oil.
In tractors I found very smooth gear box & also lesser diesel consumption.Its running very smooth.Also in same manner diesel consumption is reduced in generator set.Indeed its passing desired result whether you people agree or not.My jijaji's wagon R is again running differently then normal wagon R in terms of smoothness & power.And beleive me its really a one time treatment.
Most benefits I had seen are in pulsars and honda activas.They just love the these dose.There is marked improvement in smoothness & pick up.
I firmly beleive its the lubricant of future.There will remain friction always that will eat the HP & fuels.This simple method will unlock this power without doing any work.
Well,normally available powder do contain few very very small micron sized particles that helps us.Imagine if we are able to get right sized particle with 99% purity.If particle size is more then it can get trapped in oil filters.But in my all experiments I never found a single oil filter full of powders.These means with pressure inside engine they get carried away from filter membrane too.
In case of gd1418,I think he got problems with fuel filters & not oil filters.And indeed this technique is not supposed to be repeated.

Sorry to enter so late in the day, but yes i second FT, coz i have done this on my zen, a year ago. and i Fully agree with what he says. Anyone is free to drive my zen and clear their doubts PM me. My Car Aint so good in Delhi now coz i dont have the time or a really good mechanic as i used to have in Bombay, Sigh! how i miss Bombay
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Old 13th June 2008, 21:21   #253
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interesting. the only thing that remains unanswered as far as i can see is how boric acid is converted to boric oxide at a temperature of less than 100 deg C. i'm going to try searching for a preparation method done at high pressure which might cause the reaction to take place at this temperature.

anyway, that apart, i have an old shaolin lying at home unused. i'm planning to give her a new piston soon. just wondering how long i should wait to run-in the new piston before adding boric acid to the 2T oil.
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Old 13th June 2008, 21:40   #254
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Few words of caution.

Since boric acid is in powder form and contain micron sized particles too its very harmful to lungs.One must take all precautions for this while handling.

How boric acid is converted into boric oxide?....do read this link & explore other articles too for WHAT..WHERE...WHY...HOW....& SO WHAT behind this theory...I hope this will help...

EvergreenAmerica.com - Motor Silk and Lubri Silk Engine and Motor Treatments, Biodegradable, Boron CLS Bond, Lubricants, Greases, Fuel Additives, Gear Treatments, Aerosol Lubricants, Marine Lubricants, Hydraulics, Mold Release, Anti Corrosion Paint,
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Old 13th June 2008, 22:40   #255
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Piston oil rings are designed to strip off excess oil from chamber and to pass on thin layers to inside wall of engine cylinders for lubrication.Its this thin film thats important as most friction occurs near top of cylinder area.Boron treated oil makes very fine layers inside cylinder wall where rings works for sealing compression as well as stripping excess oil.This eliminates friction as boron layer is extremely slippery much more then best grade synthetic oil.This suddenly improves piston ups & down movement with very less friction.So we see no metal contact between rings and inside cylinder wall.This eliminates metallic wear & tear & rings then lasts so long with same compression as that of a new car.The real benefits lies here.

This is the graphical illustration.....

http://www.synergeticlubrication.com...cls%20bond.swf

Also more about the oil lubrication inside engine,a tribological aspect is here...

Combustion engine lubrication system.

Last edited by finetuning : 13th June 2008 at 22:50.
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