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View Poll Results: I have TRIED IT and have found that ...
It works wonders for my car/bike. I highly recommend it. 22 33.85%
Slight improvement, but I recommend it. 12 18.46%
No difference at all. Don't bother trying this non-sense stuff. 17 26.15%
It screwed my car!!! Stay away from all boron compounds!!! 14 21.54%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 13th June 2008, 23:02   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finetuning View Post
Piston oil rings are designed to strip off excess oil from chamber and to pass on thin layers to inside wall of engine cylinders for lubrication.Its this thin film thats important as most friction occurs near top of cylinder area.Boron treated oil makes very fine layers inside cylinder wall where rings works for sealing compression as well as stripping excess oil.
@tsk1979
This is what i actually meant when saying that some amount of oil enters the cylinder for lubrication and the oron would then get compressed and chemical reaction will take place inside the cylinders
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Old 14th June 2008, 13:18   #257
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Smoother running, better pulling power were observed. The performance was more pronounced in my TCIC Safari '98. This made me think as FT propounded that this treatment prolongs the older engines. There was no difference in the temperature for both - the Safari & Scorpio. It indeed is a one time treatment but effective for roughly 20K kms.

Why I discontinued? Because when I saw the gooey white paste in the filter chambers, that set me thinking that similar deposit would also happen in the fuel tank (as I added BA in fuel as well) at rest as sedimentation. While the filter unit could be cleaned at every service, getting the tank and oil sump cleaned was an exercise that I was unwilling to take.

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Originally Posted by abhik View Post
Ok GD! But end of the day was there a difference in performance or not?
Thats what we are looking for. (w.r.t reduction in noise/vibrations, cooler running temperature, smoother running.)

You did'nt continue to use this treatment but is'nt this a one time treatment?

Boron in microscopic particulate size might be soluble with oil and these particles should be the ones making the bond with metal.

Again looking at the brighter side if particles are getting trapped by the filter then its good as this would ensure no foreign particles disturb working of the oil lines and path. Others that are smaller will help in the process claimed by FT.

Last edited by gd1418 : 14th June 2008 at 13:21.
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Old 14th June 2008, 13:25   #258
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You can try my garage in case you are interested. PM me if feel so..

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Originally Posted by Kaizer Sozay View Post
My Car Aint so good in Delhi now coz i dont have the time or a really good mechanic as i used to have in Bombay, Sigh! how i miss Bombay
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Old 14th June 2008, 13:29   #259
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There were white powder deposits on the oil filter fins of Safari, when removed after first treatment. I had not checked the fuel filters at that time since as suggested by you, I first tried to dissolve BA in acetone. It of course made a milky solution. But I thought that small quantity added to a large quantity of diesel would mix well. But the powder deposits were found in the fuel filter unit.

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Originally Posted by finetuning View Post
In case of gd1418,I think he got problems with fuel filters & not oil filters.And indeed this technique is not supposed to be repeated.
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Old 14th June 2008, 17:52   #260
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So i guess that tommorow i'll be adding 200 gms of boric acid in 150 ml of acetone and then i'll mix it with 1/2 ltr, engine oil and mix that oil with the rest of the engine oil (4 Lts.) in my Indigo 2005 Model. I'm also willing to put it in the Gear Oil. Do i change the Oil Filters before i add boric acid and then change them again at 100 kms or do i keep running with my existing filters and then change them after 100 kms?? i know too many questions, but would appreciate if you guys clear the air and any specific oil to be bought i generally use Castrol CRB+.
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Old 14th June 2008, 20:19   #261
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Guys,

Theres something that i am not understanding.

How come you guys add the Boric Acid directly to your engine.

I understand about the gear box thing. But engine.

Any educated person on earth would understand that BA is totally harmful to engine.

Ecperiments are good, but something that'll lead to fatal results have to be a strict no no.

I have faced problems using BA in and internal combustion engine and found it totally sc****d up the engine.

I want others to be really careful while attempting such folley.

Mods: Why such thread that is misleading. i feel the Senior BHPians and Moderators should pump in few inputs on this.
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Old 14th June 2008, 21:03   #262
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I second pavan on this
If its so useful why don't company recommend this on owner's manual.
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Old 14th June 2008, 23:51   #263
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Hi finetuning,
Just went through this entire thread.
It sounds encouraging to me. If there is something that can prevent damage while the engine is new then the time to try it is NOW.
Can i try this in my new safari 2.2 ?? If yes, then please list the exact procedure for me to follow for 7.5liters of engine oil.
The engine has done around 6000kms now and i will be doing a long trip of 7000+ kms shortly.
Following are my questions:
1) How much boric powder to use?
2) In how much ml acetone should i dissolve this boric powder ?
3) Since my engine oil was changed @ approx 1000kms should i just pour this acetone boric concoction into the engine via the same inlet from where we pour engine oil?
OR
4)Do i have to mix this boric acetone mix in engine oil and then pour it? (note my current engineoil dipstick shows max oil level)
5)After how many kms should i change the oil filter?
6)Is it possible to only change oil filter without spilling engine oil?? (I thought that the entire engine oil has to be drained to change the oil filter)
7)After how many kms should i change the boric treated engine oil ? (Note: next scheduled oil change is @ 15000 kms)
8) Does this solution have to be put in a warm engine or a cold engine will do ?

If there anything else that I should know then please let me know. All the information is much appreciated. I have listed the questions in order for me to understand and follow the procedure correctly. Please feel free to add additional comments. Im sure it will help anyone else in 2 minds.!!

Regards,
J

Last edited by jaysmokesleaves : 14th June 2008 at 23:56.
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Old 16th June 2008, 14:07   #264
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Hi jaysmokeleaves,

Sorry for late reply..

Since you had recently changed oil+oil filter its not necessary to change it for this treatment

In your 7.5 ltr engine you can prepare 150gm powder with 500 ml oil and mix it well in any mixture grinder available at our kitchen for at least 4 to 5 minutes.No need to dissolve it in acetone. You can add this solution directly into engine from where you usually add fresh oil.

You need to run you vehicle instantly for at least half an hour or more for better result. More you drive say for an hour better will be result.

You need to replace only oil filter after running first 100Km. This is a good safety measure which doesnt cost more. Bcz of removal of carbon & dirts oil becomes thick & black.By changing filter we eliminate most of dirt thats piled of from metal surfaces. Also if you change your oil filter again at 500Km then its best for your engine. This treatments works best within first 100 to 500 Km. Our aim is to allow boron treated oil to work & also to remove displaced carbons from oil.
You can change engine oil after 2000km if you find it more black. Many times in diesel vehicles due to heavy accumulation of carbons oil becomes too black & looses its viscocity so early. However its not essential.It depends upon condition of oil.So if you feel its good then continue driving.

You need to put this solution in hot engine. You can have a drive of 15 minutes to reach engine to its optimum temp. then add solution.

You will observe silent running of engine,better in gear acceleration,improved power (can feel it easily with a/c on).
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Old 16th June 2008, 14:53   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Guys,

Theres something that i am not understanding.

How come you guys add the Boric Acid directly to your engine.

I understand about the gear box thing. But engine.

Any educated person on earth would understand that BA is totally harmful to engine.

Ecperiments are good, but something that'll lead to fatal results have to be a strict no no.

I have faced problems using BA in and internal combustion engine and found it totally sc****d up the engine.

I want others to be really careful while attempting such folley.

Mods: Why such thread that is misleading. i feel the Senior BHPians and Moderators should pump in few inputs on this.
please explain how your engine got screwed up? not trying to put you down/argue, but i think if you can give a good description it would add to the knowledge.
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Old 16th June 2008, 15:47   #266
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Silver shadow.

Good you are experimenting things, i totally agree with your gearbox addition and suggest people doing so, as this combination of BA in gearbox runs 3 of my cars, but in an engine.

BA is as good as a foreign particle in the engine oil and the compounds that BA is made up of creates friction(as we dont get pure BORON) BA is a coarse powder compound which we find easily.

My friends old 800 engine was supposed to be removed to overhaul and as per this thread he tried BA, it ran well for 200kms and later the same old problems of misfiring, engine decompression and other related issues surfaced.

This engine was a SUZUKI made and just because of using BA it further damaged the pistions, connecting rods and the oil pump in the car. The oil filter also had lot of deposits (Whitish) in it further reducing oil flow in the engine.

Its a common sense. Any coarse particle in the engine oil is going to block the oil flow once it gets into the filter(as filter is choked).

This is a live experience, and suggest people to ratify the same.
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Old 16th June 2008, 16:14   #267
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Earlier i had thought of carrying out this procedure, but then i was speaking to my mechanic in the morning and he started firing me stating that if you want to take the risk but i am not going to do this for you (have been getting all my cars done from him from the days that even i dont recall) and he said that instead try using a synthetic oil in place of mineral oil and see the difference. I finally changed from mineral oil to synthetic oil and driving aound town like crazy so that i can cover at least 500 kms and start feeling the difference.
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Old 16th June 2008, 17:13   #268
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It happens...

Remember why are we adding this to our engines & gearboxex?.....If its to eliminate major worn out problems then this is not a majic potion.When there is mechanical tolerence/damage problem due to wear & tear which need nothing but major overhaul then how this thing can work.

In those cases where it worked are having lesser severe problem.

What can we expect from an already gone case.. engine demanding only overhauling. Look in this way.....you managed to run extra 200 Km without any problems...thats the grace period....replacing oil filter in very old cars is a must...not once but might be at two times....
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Old 16th June 2008, 17:52   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
I second pavan on this
If its so useful why don't company recommend this on owner's manual.
Same as why are'nt all cars Turbo Charged or reccomeded on the owner's manual, or why is it not recommended on the owner's manual to use a High-Flow Filter and FFE etc.
The answer is manufacturers into mass production look at LONG-TERM RELIABILITY,OPTIMUM EFFICIENCY, VARIOUS COSTS to comply with and NORMS to MEET.
The rest of the lot who have a performance division and manufacture performance street cars for a particular market niche like Nissan, Mitsubishi, Toyota etc (Lets leave alone the big boys for now) concentrate on known, tried, tested and proven on tracks mods on street cars and concentrate on a lot lot more other than lubricant.
And none of these companies will go in for a technique/technology/theory which would be in testing/trial/experimentation phase or which is not proven on papers. Why? again the same answer:LONG-TERM RELIABILITY. Though performance oriented, these cars still need to be reliable enough to clock a good number of miles and end of the day get a happy customer.
FT's theory on Boric Acid is a DIY based on properties of BA on metal upon forming Boric Oxide. He tried it, found it to be beneficial to his use. Then he just shared the same with us and never forced anyone to try it. IT WAS ENTIRELY UPTO OUR WILL AND WISH TO TRY THE EXPERIMENT/TREATMENT, and see if it benefitted us.

The above is with a neutral POV and not unbiased towards anybody. Its just that the argument on the treatment/technique/experiment of adding BA with Engine Oil and Gear Oil can be carried on till someone put its down on papers officially and probably wins a Nobel Prize for it.
So the best way to tone it down is:-
TRY IT IF YOU FEEL/THINK YOU SHOULD FOR WHATEVER REASONS.

DONT TRY IT IF YOU FEEL/THINK YOU SHOUL'NT FOR WHATEVER REASONS.

If you have tried it then please share your experiences whether positive or negative.
If you havent then give your viewpoints on your idea/theory on why it would not work.
But we should keep the argument limited due to the uncertainity /lack of complete knowledge/ varied outcome/ no set procedure etc. which makes the argument never ending.

PS: Sir Alec/Pavan this was not aimed at you directly but to all members as a whole as i thought the discussion was heating up on the argument and does'nt have a possible end at the moment

ISSUED IN PUBLIC INTEREST
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Old 16th June 2008, 17:53   #270
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Thanks FT, will repost the feedback on this thread after a few weeks and will PM you for any furthur queries.
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