Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff


View Poll Results: I have TRIED IT and have found that ...
It works wonders for my car/bike. I highly recommend it. 22 33.85%
Slight improvement, but I recommend it. 12 18.46%
No difference at all. Don't bother trying this non-sense stuff. 17 26.15%
It screwed my car!!! Stay away from all boron compounds!!! 14 21.54%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 21st June 2008, 15:28   #286
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NAMMA BENGALURU
Posts: 5,613
Thanked: 2,459 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhik View Post
Same as why are'nt all cars Turbo Charged or reccomeded on the owner's manual, or why is it not recommended on the owner's manual to use a High-Flow Filter and FFE etc.
The answer is manufacturers into mass production look at LONG-TERM RELIABILITY,OPTIMUM EFFICIENCY, VARIOUS COSTS to comply with and NORMS to MEET.
The rest of the lot who have a performance division and manufacture performance street cars for a particular market niche like Nissan, Mitsubishi, Toyota etc (Lets leave alone the big boys for now) concentrate on known, tried, tested and proven on tracks mods on street cars and concentrate on a lot lot more other than lubricant.
And none of these companies will go in for a technique/technology/theory which would be in testing/trial/experimentation phase or which is not proven on papers. Why? again the same answer:LONG-TERM RELIABILITY. Though performance oriented, these cars still need to be reliable enough to clock a good number of miles and end of the day get a happy customer.
FT's theory on Boric Acid is a DIY based on properties of BA on metal upon forming Boric Oxide. He tried it, found it to be beneficial to his use. Then he just shared the same with us and never forced anyone to try it. IT WAS ENTIRELY UPTO OUR WILL AND WISH TO TRY THE EXPERIMENT/TREATMENT, and see if it benefitted us.

The above is with a neutral POV and not unbiased towards anybody. Its just that the argument on the treatment/technique/experiment of adding BA with Engine Oil and Gear Oil can be carried on till someone put its down on papers officially and probably wins a Nobel Prize for it.
So the best way to tone it down is:-
TRY IT IF YOU FEEL/THINK YOU SHOULD FOR WHATEVER REASONS.

DONT TRY IT IF YOU FEEL/THINK YOU SHOUL'NT FOR WHATEVER REASONS.

If you have tried it then please share your experiences whether positive or negative.
If you havent then give your viewpoints on your idea/theory on why it would not work.
But we should keep the argument limited due to the uncertainity /lack of complete knowledge/ varied outcome/ no set procedure etc. which makes the argument never ending.

PS: Sir Alec/Pavan this was not aimed at you directly but to all members as a whole as i thought the discussion was heating up on the argument and does'nt have a possible end at the moment

ISSUED IN PUBLIC INTEREST

Abhik,

Public interest means to have good interests for public and not evil.

I stand by what i say Boric Acid should not be added to engine. I've done enough research over the net and found only BORON should be used as an additive with acetone to the engine oil.

There are so many mechanical and chemical engineering friends i have with whom i've discussed this topic. They are saying "LET GOD GIVE THAT PERSON A Phd WHO'S SAYING THIS"

BORON and BORIC ACID are entirely different in their chemical combinations.

Lets not drive peoplel to fools paradise. If this formula worked why doesnt it hit any great scientists mind. Why only FT and others suggesting them.

Is there any scientific backing to this kind of experiments.

Why make the common public a guniea pig?

Pls lets stop this kind of folley. and lets do something constructive.

While i still back the addition of BA to gear box.
PAVAN KADAM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2008, 18:45   #287
BHPian
 
sameer_dg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 129
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

is this real or some funny joke. when explained about this thread to guys in the maruti dealer they thought am an idiot.
sameer_dg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2008, 20:56   #288
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 3,083
Thanked: 252 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sameer_dg View Post
is this real or some funny joke. when explained about this thread to guys in the maruti dealer they thought am an idiot.
Sameer, sorry, not meaning to be harsh, but perhaps the joke is on you!
How can you so callously go around presenting such a 'controversial experiment' to people who are barely 'literate' and programmed to do just what they have been kept there to do?!!

BTW, is any one of them a member on ANY forum whatsoever?
anupmathur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st June 2008, 20:59   #289
BHPian
 
vvvinod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 192
Thanked: 9 Times
Default

I just borified my car, after running it some time, i feel my engine little smother now

I will be going for a long drive next weekend, will keep you posted
vvvinod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2008, 12:19   #290
BHPian
 
rakowli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 109
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

Hey FT Just want to check that after how many kms should i change the oil in my pulsar. after BA treatment.
rakowli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2008, 17:53   #291
BHPian
 
abhik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 848
Thanked: 8 Times
Default BA added to Ikon 1.6

Ok Guys! Here goes my tale of my experimentation with adding BA to Engine Oil in my Ikon 1.6 2002. Now run 1,05,000kms. done on saturday night.

Details First:-
1. Engine Oil : Castrol Magnatec semi-synthetic 10W40.
2. Engine Oil capacity : 4.5ltrs.
3. Engine Oil 400kms used after put in fresh in service two weeks ago. New Ford OEM Oil Filter.
4. Amount of BA used 95-100gms approx. mixed with 500ml of Castrol Magnatec.
5. BA bought off the shelf from a chemist, pure BA (as per the packaging and mark by IPA-full for Indian Pharma Association or something like that.)

Took the oil and BA and mixed it in a 2ltr bottle of COKE. Me and my friend took turns shaking the bottle vigourously for half-an-hour, as the BA was in powder form and in very minute particles i did not feel the necessity of an electric mixer, the powder was very slippery when i took a pinch and rubbed it to feel any solid granular particles and to ensure uniformity of texture.
Then drove about 6kms to a CNG station to fill up and we decided that we will run the engine/car for 100kms continuously after adding the mixture. Since it was my car we decided that my friend will drive for 50-60kms so that when i take the wheel, i should feel a difference if at all there was any.
So after CNG was filled then we added the BA-Engine Oil mixture to the hot engine(as suggested by FT.) Then we took off for the Greater Noida Expressway at 9:30pm.
Started off with cruising at 80kmph-120kmph and then gradually building up speed to 150kmph and also stopped(with the engine running and A/C on all times.)to answer natures call and smoke a couple of cigs. Then i took the wheels and decided to do a 0-top end run as it was past 10:30pm and very few cars were on the road, but i was a little cautious so i was shifting at 5000rpms and took the car till 170kmph, A/C off. Then gradually settled down at an 80kmph cruise due to a number of trucks and vehicles in front.
Initially i did'nt feel any difference, maybe because when i drive at that speeds i am just concentrating on the road ahead and frequently gaze at the rpms and temperature and dont have time to notice anything else apart from these. But when i settled down to an 80kmph cruise which went on for quite some time, i noticed that engine felt sort of lighter, less stressed, as if little effort was required for it to run. And this became more evident when we headed back home when vibes were a little less than before.
But i was'nt convinced and thought maybe the car was run for so long and i was driving for such a long time that i was not able to make out any difference or maybe there was no difference at all. But i had gone out with a very neutral attitude before doing the experiment and thus didnt expect anything specific out of it.
The engine was put through all that one would face on a daily drive and a bit more.
1. 65% Highway 35% Traffic
2. From a crawl in traffic, to cruising at 60-80-120kmph, to high-speed runs of 150-170kmph.
3. Total distance covered 135kms after adding the mixture.
4. Engine ran non-stop during the above covered distance with A/C running all the time except for the 0-170kmph run.

Next day(sunday) i got up and headed straight for my car hoping that the car would start and that i didnt screw the engine.
To my surprise the car was noticably quiter and vibes were lesser that before, on running the car i did feel a difference, being that the engine was smoother than before, till 80kmph 4th gear, the car was much smoother and slilent than before.
Now the car has run 200kms since the BA mixture was added. Went to Ford today to change the Oil Filter but they had too many cars at hand and could'nt do it. So hopefully i can get that done tomorrow.

Few things that i noticed:-
1. BA is heavier than oil and not sluble in oil so it did settle down in the plastic bottle after a while if left alone, even after shaken vigourously. But hopefully BA when turned to Boric Oxide will stick to metal.
2. If incase the reaction of BA turning into boric oxide is not taking place then atleast BA is increasing the lubricating properties of the base lubricant which would explain the reduction in vibes and smoothness in engine running.
3. Removing the filter will tell the rest i.e if there will be white gooey stuff coming out of it or carbon deposits comming out of it. So lets wait for that.
3. Then changing the engine oil and getting similar results will also explain if actually BA worked or not because if it didnt then there would be white/creamish deposits with the oil and if it worked then there should be carbon deposits in lumps.
4. One should not expect a heap-load of difference in performance but yes difference is noticable.
5. Running temperature did not change before and after the experiment.

So to sum things up, mixed results as of now but hopefully as FT suggests, the experiments shows results as the engine clocks more kms.

I will keep updating, and i request that all the people who have tried it to keep updating on the results time to time.
abhik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2008, 17:57   #292
BHPian
 
abhik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 848
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Abhik,

Public interest means to have good interests for public and not evil.
Well Pavan this was in accordance to the NEVER-ENDING arguement over the experiment and not the experiment itself.

And as far as the experiment is concerned, to each his own-so go ahead if you wish and dont if you think otherwise.
abhik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2008, 18:34   #293
BHPian
 
vvvinod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 192
Thanked: 9 Times
Default

[quote=abhik;877207]=/quote]


Did you filter the mixture or directly pour to engine oil sump ?
vvvinod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd June 2008, 19:07   #294
BHPian
 
abhik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 848
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Directly poured the mixture as the oil filter will do the needed traping of lager particles.
abhik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2008, 15:19   #295
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 393
Thanked: 9 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rakowli View Post
Hey FT Just want to check that after how many kms should i change the oil in my pulsar. after BA treatment.
Ideal oil changing time depends upon many factors but if you feel oil going well till 2000+km then keep it up even till next scheduled oil change.

10 gm with 100 ml oil is more then enough for pulsars.Do ride soon after adding this for 30+ minutes.Its a must.

Last edited by finetuning : 24th June 2008 at 15:24. Reason: Adding
finetuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th June 2008, 20:45   #296
BHPian
 
abhik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 848
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Ok! This morning i got up early to get the oil filter changed from Ford since i could'nt get it done on Monday as the service center had too many cars and i had to ruch for office.

I started the car and went on in my usual manner but refrained from my usual aggresive driving style due to the traffic at 9:30am. So i thought about testing the engine at low revs and speeds.
The car was no doubt a lot lot smoother after the BA experiment. But again being a slightly technical guy i also thought that the smoothness could be attributable to the air-temperature outside which was cooler due to the early morning shower plus the K n N which would be getting cold-air.
But even if i attributed the smoothness to the air-temperature, i could'nt hold that as a factor explaining the smoothness in the in-gear acceleration and holding higher gears at low speeds. Let me elaborate.

Due to the traffic i had to maintain speeds of 40-60kmph with frequent drop in speed due to heavy traffic, stop-lights and jams. But what i noticed was that earlier before the BA experiment/treatment the car could not hold higher gears at low-speeds which it was doing quite well today to my amazement.
I was in 3rd gear and speed was less than 20kmph(unfortunately the speedometer does not have anything below 20kmph so dont know the exact reading but i am guessing somewhere between 15-20kmph) and the engine pulled away effortlessly with vibes that lasted just 2secs and the revs pulled from 800rpms effortlessly. Did the same in 4th gear and the engine pulled from 1000rpms at a speed of 20kmph, again vibes lasted for max 2secs. The smoothness remained throughout my 20km drive even when the ambiente temperature outside was warm with the sun coming out and heat increasing on the road due to the vehicles around till the time i was heading back home.

Earlier, without the treatment the engine would struggle to pull from 20kmph in 3rd or 4th gear with loud vibes, and revs would struggle to rise and i had to downshift. If i let the engine be in that state it would take quite a lot of time to build up revs and by then the vibes would make a deaffening sound inside the cabin.

So this really proved that BA was working and i dont really care about the chemical reactions but i know for sure that BA in the form that i got which was just fine slippery powder is making the engine oil more slippery due to which friction has reduced and hence the change in behaviour of the engine and better performance.
Hopefully as FT claimed earlier that BA would stick to the metal and then this excellent improvement in engine response would improve as more kms are clocked.
Another indication was the engine temperature. Earlier whenever the engine was run on CNG the temperature was always at half or a little more and would never reduce from that point be it day/night/summer/winter.
But after BA treatment, if the engine is stressed with stop and go traffic then the temperature would be at half point but as soon as i hit a clear strech the temperature would go down to quater or sometimes slightly less than that aswell. Again this was noted last night and afternoon aswell when it was really hot. Today it rained so the ambiente temperature was low but it was really hot yesterday, and still lower engine operating temperature.

I will update you guys on the oil-filter removal soon, hopefully tomorrow as today Ford was closed.(Surprisingly as they were open 7 days a week earlier and now they are closed on Tuesdays.)

Last edited by abhik : 24th June 2008 at 20:50.
abhik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2008, 13:56   #297
BHPian
 
rakowli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 109
Thanked: 3 Times
Default

Today i have done 160+ kms on Pulsar after BA Treatment. It has become butter smooth to drive now. no engine noise and vibes have almost gone. now i have started to like my biking again as it was no fun left in my bike the mileage had gone down. I did some mileage setting from my mechanic and did the BA Treatment to make it more smooth. and it has worked. THanks FT.
rakowli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2008, 14:27   #298
BHPian
 
sanjaymugur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 262
Thanked: 53 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rakowli View Post
Today i have done 160+ kms on Pulsar after BA Treatment. It has become butter smooth to drive now. no engine noise and vibes have almost gone. now i have started to like my biking again as it was no fun left in my bike the mileage had gone down. I did some mileage setting from my mechanic and did the BA Treatment to make it more smooth. and it has worked. THanks FT.
changing oil filter is tough in pulsar, i guess u need to remove some engine casing, pl remove the oil filter & replace it & let us know if the old oil filter accumulated any fine metal pieces...

u need to change oil filter as part of this treatment..

FIAT, always....
sanjaymugur is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2008, 15:11   #299
BHPian
 
abhik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 848
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

Hi Guys!
Still could'nt get the oil filter changed and the engine has run 300+kms after BA treatment. But as FT suggested, the engine is becoming smoother day by day with more kms on the clock. Holding higher gears is evidently becoming easier at low speeds. Vibes have almost dissapered. Speeds till 80-100kms cannot be felt and the engine is revving more freely than before.
Best part (something which the skeptics can use if they ever dare to do the experiment) is the engine operating temperature. I had mention this in my earlier post aswell, that earlier the temp needle would touch the half point in any condition after 10odd mins of drive. And more than that in stop and go traffic.
Now in normal running its at quater or a little less. And not more than half in stop and go traffic.

Hopefully i get the oil-filter changed quickly, problem is i dont want to go in for a local brand and if not OEM Ford which has oil-filters supplied/imported by Motorcraft, then i can go for Bosch but that is also becoming hard to find.
abhik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2008, 16:25   #300
BHPian
 
RedMM340's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: on the move
Posts: 459
Thanked: 23 Times
Default

Guys,

I have seen this thread a number of times, and did not really pay much attention, but I really feel compelled to give you fellow BHPians my 2 cents worth of opinion regarding Boric Acid in engine oil.

In a nutshell: PLEASE DON'T.

Your engine oil is your engines lifeline, and doing experiments with it can lead to very serious engine damage or premature wear. Do you really want to be doing testing on your motor?

Just do more frequent oil changes if you want to take care of your engine. Better yet go to Mobile 1 full synthetic. There is no risk with this and it will definitely benefit your engine.

On another note, I have noticed a lot of folks getting "engine flushes" done. This can also result in serious engine damage. Just regular oil changes are the only safe way to go.

Best regards,

Gaurav
RedMM340 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Adding Engine oil with Diesel. chanapli Technical Stuff 42 5th July 2017 02:05
My Experience Of Adding 2T Oil In Fuel finetuning Technical Stuff 173 26th September 2016 13:49
Battery water overfilled, Acid spill around strips007 Technical Stuff 24 7th February 2014 20:47
My Experience Of Adding Boric Acid In Petrol finetuning Technical Stuff 52 16th July 2013 20:16


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 13:40.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks