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Old 19th June 2014, 17:41   #46
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Default Re: Honda City Engine Died On Highway

Sorry to hear the ordeal. I have a feeling that it might be a case of engine seizure. This could have been because of low oil level or in case oil had leaked during your journey. Did the car take any underbody hit during the journey? Was the oil level correct before starting journey? Or the car overheated due to low coolant or a failure of cooling system? Did the car show any symptoms before dying like loss of power, etc?
Other probably causes may be water mixed in fuel and resulting in a hydro-lock.
I am just guessing these on the fact that the starter motor is not able to crank the engine. Please update the thread with the diagnosis by the Honda ASC. Will be watching it eagerly as to know what might have gone wrong.

Regards,
Saket

Last edited by saket77 : 19th June 2014 at 17:45.
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Old 19th June 2014, 19:30   #47
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Default Re: Honda City Engine Died On Highway

22k kms is too early for an engine to show problems unless as Saket told there is an oil starvation or overheating. Could it be due to the fuel pump either conking off or not turning on? I think engine should not be opened unless other aspects are ruled out.

Even if there was water in the fuel, it would shown up sometime after filling the car since water settles down in the bottom in a short while after filling and then immediately gets pumped into the engine.
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Old 19th June 2014, 19:48   #48
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Default Re: Honda City Engine Died On Highway

Truly sorry to hear about your ordeal. Glad that at least you could raise help in time and that you and your family are safe.

Honda engines are usually very reliable and failures like this are very odd indeed. And that too in a car as young as this.
It is too early to comment, specially as the root cause investigation is in process.
Fuel pump failure may not be the issue because usually in case of fuel starvation the vehicle gives adequate warnings, stutters, acceleration drops etc before finally conking off. Oil pump failure leading to oil starvation also would give some indications prior to giving up as occasional flickering of oil pressure lamp etc.
Because most of the lights were on, a major electrical / ECU malfunction may not be the cause

What can be - and again, this is pure speculation, is a freak, but catastrophic failure/snapping of the timing belt. It once happened to a friend of mine in his BALENO , in the dead of night, in the backwoods of Orissa, and the symptoms are close to what you describe.

Another can be, again speculative and a very long shot, that while trying to shift down from 5th, if shifting was being done at that instance, somehow, again by freak, there could have been a potential mis-shift, and the shifter moved into the reverse corridor, slightly. Even a mild ingress of the selector/shifter into the reverse corridor can result in a potential failure of the gearbox which would automatically cause the ECU to instruct the engine to shutdown

Hoping the service centre does an accurate diagnosis and relieves you of the agony. Do keep us posted as to developments.

Last edited by arjab : 19th June 2014 at 19:56. Reason: corrected typo's
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Old 19th June 2014, 19:56   #49
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Default Re: Honda City Engine Died On Highway

I have said it several dozens of times on this forum already and I will keep repeating it: Problems with a modern car, get it hooked up to a proper manufacturer specific OBD analyzer. Anything else is pure speculation. If your Honda dealer doesn't do so, tell them to do it, or go to a different dealer that will.
Unless, they come with a very plausible cause that is clearly visible. And even then, it might be a good idea to hook it up just to see if there are any other problems.

Off hand I can think of at least 15-20 simple reasons why this could happen. It doesn't happen often but on modern cars, but there are a number of circuits and sensors that if they fail this could be the result.

If the engine had seized, believe me, you would have noticed, because the wheels get blocked and only stomping on the clutch would prevent that.

Good luck.

Jeroen
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Old 20th June 2014, 11:53   #50
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Default Re: Honda City Engine Died On Highway

Alright. So the car stopped while all the warning lights came on. I guess you can get stuff checked in this order.

1. Oil levels. Please check if it is normal
2. Timing belt
3. Electronics(ECU)

If the oil levels are normal, the chance for a seizing are low. Hydrolock could be a factor but i don't feel it could be it. As Jeroen stated, if the engine seized, you'll feel the car rapidly decelerating along with symptoms resembling a wheel lock under full load braking.
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Old 20th June 2014, 12:03   #51
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Default Re: Honda City Engine Died On Highway

I will suspect the ECU, but that is pure speculation.
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Old 20th June 2014, 12:16   #52
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Default Re: Honda City Engine Died On Highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perakath View Post
so dad who was driving maneuvered to the left and we rolled to a stop by the side of the road. All the dashboard warning lights came on, including the power steering / steering lock light (picture of a steering wheel) and the engine emissions warning light. The steering did not lock and the brakes continued to work. The battery was fine since the roof lights and headlights continued to work well.
Did he have to de-clutch / shift to neutral OR was car rolling in-gear as well (given that car was on a downslope)?
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Old 20th June 2014, 12:57   #53
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Default Re: Honda City Engine Died On Highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perakath View Post
Hi all,

Does anyone have any ideas on possible causes and the way forward?
Any update on the issue?

Get to hooked to an OBD reader to get the real matter out, we sitting here can only speculate and shoot up your tension further.

Anurag.
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Old 20th June 2014, 12:57   #54
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Default Re: Honda City Engine Died On Highway

Based on the sudden death! it could be

1: ECU kaput

2: Timing belt snapped

3: Ignition components faulty

4: Fuel pump faulty

If your oil level was low, you would have got a warning and the car wold have overheated
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Old 20th June 2014, 15:51   #55
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Default Re: Engine Rebuild Cost?

Thanks all for your concern and replies. I am still waiting to get a specific update; as of now I only know that the repair estimate is "horrific".

Apparently there was some sort of City recall in 2009? Our car was not recalled but parents are wondering if that is linked to this in any manner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Did the car show any symptoms before dying like loss of power, etc?

Please update the thread with the diagnosis by the Honda ASC. Will be watching it eagerly as to know what might have gone wrong.
Regards,
Saket
No symptoms whatsoever.

Yes I hope this thread can be of use to others unfortunate enough to have a similar experience in future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
22k kms is too early for an engine to show problems unless as Saket told there is an oil starvation or overheating. Could it be due to the fuel pump either conking off or not turning on? I think engine should not be opened unless other aspects are ruled out.

Even if there was water in the fuel, it would shown up sometime after filling the car since water settles down in the bottom in a short while after filling and then immediately gets pumped into the engine.
I figured an ECU problem can occur anytime but yes agree it's early for a significant mechanical issue to be arising.

It was a day trip to Bangalore and back... fuel was filled in the morning, driving all day, and this happened at night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arjab View Post
What can be - and again, this is pure speculation, is a freak, but catastrophic failure/snapping of the timing belt. It once happened to a friend of mine in his BALENO , in the dead of night, in the backwoods of Orissa, and the symptoms are close to what you describe.

Another can be, again speculative and a very long shot, that while trying to shift down from 5th, if shifting was being done at that instance, somehow, again by freak, there could have been a potential mis-shift, and the shifter moved into the reverse corridor, slightly. Even a mild ingress of the selector/shifter into the reverse corridor can result in a potential failure of the gearbox which would automatically cause the ECU to instruct the engine to shutdown
Timing belt snapping does make sense but would have been immediately spotted before engine being opened (I assume). Of course this presumes honesty on the part of the workshop.

In the second case, would the engine prevent itself from restarting again when cranked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
I have said it several dozens of times on this forum already and I will keep repeating it: Problems with a modern car, get it hooked up to a proper manufacturer specific OBD analyzer. Anything else is pure speculation. If your Honda dealer doesn't do so, tell them to do it, or go to a different dealer that will.
Unless, they come with a very plausible cause that is clearly visible. And even then, it might be a good idea to hook it up just to see if there are any other problems.

If the engine had seized, believe me, you would have noticed, because the wheels get blocked and only stomping on the clutch would prevent that.
Thanks Jeroen, I too assumed diagnostics would be a simple matter of hooking up an analyzer. It's only when I heard the engine was being opened that I began to wonder what was going on.

I've never experienced an engine seizure but would assume that all components of the drivetrain would jam, like you've said. That didn't happen to us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch-Angel View Post
If the oil levels are normal, the chance for a seizing are low. Hydrolock could be a factor but i don't feel it could be it. As Jeroen stated, if the engine seized, you'll feel the car rapidly decelerating along with symptoms resembling a wheel lock under full load braking.
That didn't happen because I was nodding off in the back seat and it took me a few seconds to realize that something was amiss. In that time the car was rolling forward normally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I will suspect the ECU, but that is pure speculation.
My initial guess too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
Did he have to de-clutch / shift to neutral OR was car rolling in-gear as well (given that car was on a downslope)?
Interesting question. Pretty sure it was rolling in gear, but will ask dad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Any update on the issue?

Get to hooked to an OBD reader to get the real matter out, we sitting here can only speculate and shoot up your tension further.

Anurag.
Hope to get a detailed update in the next day or two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post

If your oil level was low, you would have got a warning and the car wold have overheated
Off-topic: Haha as part of my job I reply to legal notices received by a large car manufacturer and I've seen at least two notices where complainants have alleged that the oil level warning light did not glow prior to an engine seizure. We replied saying that since the light was subsequently tested and found to be working, it must have glowed and not been noticed by you.

Thanks again everyone.
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Old 21st June 2014, 14:16   #56
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Default Re: Engine Rebuild Cost?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Any update buddy on the engine rebuild?

Anurag.
Yeah, my friend decided to sell it off. Not the ideal scenario, but the Honda guys had already opened the engine, and kept on increasing the repair quote, so in the end she decided to dispose it off through honda only. Getting peanuts, something like 1-2 lacs.
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Old 27th June 2014, 16:07   #57
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Default Re: Engine Rebuild Cost?

Update on the Honda City: Examination by the Nissan dealership (former Honda dealership) has revealed that it was not an electronic failure but a mechanical failure inside the engine. Apparently some spring failed which led to consequent damage to the engine valves, rocker arms, and to one of the cylinder heads.

I am wondering if it is the lost motion spring that failed, on account of this link: http://www.caradvice.com.au/106708/2...jazz-recalled/

Some pictures below, including repair estimate (does not include VAT and service tax). Sorry about the repair estimate picture.

We have taken up the matter with Honda Cars India Ltd and I expect we will pursue this into litigation.

Any thoughts based on the photos and list of parts to be changed?
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Engine Rebuild Cost?-20140627_152354_resized.jpg  

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Old 27th June 2014, 16:46   #58
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Default Re: Engine Rebuild Cost?

I hope a proper investigation by Honda is done in this case. If the damage is caused by a part known for failure then Honda must have recalled and fixed the issue. A catastrophic engine failure for a Honda is rare but hits hard at its famed reliability tag. I sincerely wish that Honda gets to the root cause of this failure.
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Old 30th June 2014, 19:57   #59
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Default Re: Engine Rebuild Cost?

Update: Honda customer care has replied to our email claiming that they sent a letter about replacing the lost motion spring in 2011. If they did, we never got it.
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Old 30th June 2014, 21:34   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perakath View Post
Update: Honda customer care has replied to our email claiming that they sent a letter about replacing the lost motion spring in 2011. If they did, we never got it.

Errrrr, I am sure you serviced your car after 2011 so they could have checked and verified that this had been done.
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