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Old 23rd April 2015, 18:57   #31
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Default Re: What's the correct oil level check procedure?

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Originally Posted by bosporus View Post
On a separate note, this was the first time in 3.5 years, that the level in my Vento dropped at all. The engine oil level has never moved before, between services, and this is also the first year that I've done a lot of short trips (3-4km, one way), which VW describes as severe operating conditions, and cautions that it could cause engine oil usage of 500ml/1,000kms - uncannily precise, this.
How much has your car run so far?

Keep a look for the oil level nevertheless, unless VW engines are designed with lot of ring slap this should not happen, and 3-4 kms is not that short distance since the vehicle would reach operating temperature within first 1 km itself? So any ring seal issue should be taken care.

Also don't panic, it might be just a small error at last fill up for all that matters. But yes do check if the trend is downward or not.
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Old 23rd April 2015, 20:32   #32
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Default Re: What's the correct oil level check procedure?

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
How much has your car run so far?

Keep a look for the oil level nevertheless, unless VW engines are designed with lot of ring slap this should not happen, and 3-4 kms is not that short distance since the vehicle would reach operating temperature within first 1 km itself? So any ring seal issue should be taken care.

Also don't panic, it might be just a small error at last fill up for all that matters. But yes do check if the trend is downward or not.
The car's run about 36,000km. No oil leakage; the drop in oil level was not more than 100ml, odd - the 500ml difference I was referring to was the indicated difference on a dipstick between the engine cold & hot.

I'd read somewhere that even for a petrol engine, a trip less than 6.5km is suboptimal, but petrol is still better is your usage includes a lot of short trips, because petrol engines heat up faster than diesel. Diesel heats up way slower, because they're actually far more efficient at managing heat - which is good overall, but not for the initial few kilometers.

Here's the VW Canada spokesperson cautioning against buying a diesel if your usage is mostly 5km trips. “In a span of five kilometres, they're not even going to be remotely warm yet,” he says.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...rticle4099688/

Again, on this BMW forum, they caution basis observed usage, that the diesel engine doesn't hit operating temperature even after 8km.
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2144852

And this year, for the first time in more than 3 years, that small drop in oil level tells me that these guys were all correct, because this directly correlates to a lot of short trips I made.
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Old 23rd April 2015, 21:26   #33
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Default Re: What's the correct oil level check procedure?

Diesel most often have iron blocks hence takes longer to heat up, another reason.

But this is tropical indian climate we are talking about. Even in BLR winter 3-4 kms engine would reach operating temperature. So apart from winter, it should in DL too.

Again as i said, just a check you should do. Nothing to be worried if the manufacturer has acknowledged the same.
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Old 26th April 2015, 15:09   #34
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Default Re: What's the correct oil level check procedure?

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Diesel most often have iron blocks hence takes longer to heat up, another reason.

But this is tropical indian climate we are talking about. Even in BLR winter 3-4 kms engine would reach operating temperature. So apart from winter, it should in DL too.
Apparently, the time taken to come up to operating temperature is because diesel engines have a high thermal efficiency. A modern petrol will have thermal efficiency between 25-30%, while 70-75% is rejected as heat without being turned into useful work, i.e. turning the crankshaft. Modern diesels, on the other hand, have thermal efficiency of up to 50%, primarily due to the high compression ratios in diesel engines.
Engine Efficiency: Wikipedia

The engine oil indicator is a good way of observing the time taken to reach operating temperature, so if you have a diesel car that comes with one, it would be good to check. Online, consensus among experts seems to be that it takes much longer, but not sure how much of a difference our climate makes. However, even if it were to become warm in 4km, the point is that the entire trip was on a cold engine, and hence the predicted oil consumption.
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Old 26th April 2015, 18:23   #35
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Default Re: What's the correct oil level check procedure?

Dear All,

I own a maruti swift vxi. I am going on a long trip next weekend. The four days round about trip will be for a total of 2000 kms. My car has till date done 6400 kms in about 11 months since i bought it ( 2 free checkups done and no oil top up till date) . It is due for third service in the fourth week of May. I took the car to the dealer for a general check-up. Before this I drove the car for approximately 15 kms ( I was driving at 90-120 km/h on the highway for few minutes ) before reaching my dealership.

Now, after I reached my dealership, after may be 10 minutes or so ( do not remember the exact time..)....the mechanics parked my car on a level surface and checked the oil level. They said that it is slightly low and asked when I had got my car serviced previously?.

Then there came another person who was noting down all the details pertaining to my car ( supposedly a Service Advisor). According to him, the oil level was normal and he was of the opinion that oil level showed a dip due to driving the car for some time.

I got confused because of two different opinions and called the Works Manager to decide who among the two was correct. The Manager checked the oil level and said that it was fine and nothing to worry about.

I am now taking the manager's word and deciding to go ahead with my trip during the coming weekend.

I request your opinions here on my below questions:

1) Will high speed driving for a few minutes have an impact on oil level being incorrectly captured on the dipstick?
2) Can I take the works manager's word and go ahead with my trip without adding any more engine oil ?

I was planning to do a full service upon my return from the trip at which time the odo would have about 8000+ kms on it.


Thanks & Regards,

Sajeesh
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Old 26th April 2015, 22:02   #36
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Cool Re: What's the correct oil level check procedure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bosporus View Post
Apparently, the time taken to come up to operating temperature is because diesel engines have a high thermal efficiency.
Again you missed "Another reason" i mentioned apart from the higher efficiency of the diesel engine. While most of the petrol engines available in indian markets have moved to alloy blocks, diesels are still carrying iron blocks, which "further increases" the time to heat up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAJEESH View Post
Dear All,

I own a maruti swift vxi. I am going on a long trip next weekend.
====
I got confused because of two different opinions and called the Works Manager to decide who among the two was correct. The Manager checked the oil level and said that it was fine and nothing to worry about.
====
1) Will high speed driving for a few minutes have an impact on oil level being incorrectly captured on the dipstick?
2) Can I take the works manager's word and go ahead with my trip without adding any more engine oil ?
Since it is a new car i assume you have the owners manual, goto the page which talks about checking engine oil level. Check what it says and do a check on your own. Then decide if you need to add a 100-200 ml or not.

Now to your questions.

1- As long as the level is within the safe range, 1/2 to full mark. There wont be any issues. Less than minimum mark i would be worried.

2- Why take anyones words, it just takes a minute to check yourself the oil level.
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Old 27th April 2015, 08:37   #37
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Default Re: What's the correct oil level check procedure?

Just to summarize:

There is no universal way to check oil level. Probably the only universal part of the oil level check procedure is to ensure the car is level. Other than that it is car specficic and you need to refer to the car manual to find out whether it needs doing cold, warm, x minutes after shut down etc.

The oil dip stick will be calibrated in line with the procedure outlined in your car's manual.

On most (nearly all) there isnt that big a difference in oil level when the engine has just been stopped or 10 minutes after or longer.

If you have a diesel and the procedure calls for it, you are likely to have to drive for at least 5 minutes depending on the ambient temperature. If you start from zero degree ambient you might require 10 minutes of driving before the oil is at operating temperature. Idling a modern diesel engine does not raise the oil temperature noticeable. So always get going!

Dont confuse the temperature of the cooling liquid (if your car has one) with the oil temperature. The cooling liquid temperature will reach normal operating range long before the oil reaches its normal operating temperature.

If you find, using the correct procedure, the oil level below the minimum, no reason to panick. It will take tens of thousand of miles of driving with the oil just below the minimum level before you would be able to measure any wear and tear. Rule of thumb, add five minutes to be of the safe side of cautious.

Use the correct type of oil when filling and the the correct amount. Try and find out what the difference between the max and min on the dip stick is. Comes in handy when having to add oil. Rule of thumb probably about 0.5L but it could vary considerably.

Dont overfill as overfilling could lead to problems with your engine and the katalytic convertor.

Jeroen
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Old 27th April 2015, 22:20   #38
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Default Re: What's the correct oil level check procedure?

Dear BHPians,

I have decided to send my car for a full third service tomorrow before weekend trip. I do not want to take a chance and am quite relieved about my own decision of getting engine oil changed.

Warm Regards,

Sajeesh
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