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Old 20th November 2013, 13:33   #1
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Default Micro-Hybrid issues in Mahindra Scorpio

Hi,

I have Scorpio VLX (BS-IV) which was delivered to me in May 2010. Ever since, I have got the vehicle, I have been a regular at the service station right from may 2010 (the very next day of receiving the vehicle)! The vehicle had the fuel tank leaking on the 7th day, the cooling coil leaked in a years' time, the power window failure is a regular, ABS failed in 25,000 Kms. and Micro Hybrid is a pain!! Very recently I had driven the car from Delhi to Chandigarh where my clutch failed and the car stopped in the middle of the busy road! However, this was taken care of by Swami Motors Chandigarh and they were really very good and helpful!

Last week I was requested to give the vehicle to Koncept Motors, Delhi for a complete check up, after I escalated to the top levels and they fixed all the bugs, except Micro Hybrid! I have changed the sensors and the switch plenty of times, but it just starts malfunctioning on the 2nd day. Koncept Motors now tells me that the Battery is not able to give the proper current to the Micro Hybrid system and hence, this is malfunctioning. Though, I have been reporting this issue in less than a years' time of purchasing this vehicle and now after 2.5+ years, they came back with this illogical story!

Please let me have your expert comments, is this really the correct analysis by Koncept Motors or are they just shrugging their responsibility? The vehicle starts normally in the mornings and at all times and have not faced any issues with the battery otherwise and have not got any indications of weakness of the same in any form.

Please advice.
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Old 21st November 2013, 16:35   #2
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Default Re: Micro-Hybrid issues in Mahindra Scorpio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeet_s View Post
and Micro Hybrid is a pain!!
=========
Last week I was requested to give the vehicle to Koncept Motors, Delhi for a complete check up, after I escalated to the top levels and they fixed all the bugs, except Micro Hybrid! I have changed the sensors and the switch plenty of times, but it just starts malfunctioning on the 2nd day. Koncept Motors now tells me that the Battery is not able to give the proper current to the Micro Hybrid system and hence, this is malfunctioning.
What exactly is the issue you are getting with Micro hybrid system? Is the vehicle not starting automatically, when moving away from idle mode(pressing accelerator)? Or is there some other issue.
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Old 21st November 2013, 16:48   #3
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Default Re: Micro-Hybrid issues in Mahindra Scorpio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeet_s View Post
Hi,

I have Scorpio VLX (BS-IV) which was delivered to me in May 2010. Ever since, I have got the vehicle, I have been a regular at the service station right from may 2010 (the very next day of receiving the vehicle)! The vehicle had the fuel tank leaking on the 7th day, the cooling coil leaked in a years' time, the power window failure is a regular, ABS failed in 25,000 Kms. and Micro Hybrid is a pain!! Very recently I had driven the car from Delhi to Chandigarh where my clutch failed and the car stopped in the middle of the busy road! However, this was taken care of by Swami Motors Chandigarh and they were really very good and helpful!

Last week I was requested to give the vehicle to Koncept Motors, Delhi for a complete check up, after I escalated to the top levels and they fixed all the bugs, except Micro Hybrid! I have changed the sensors and the switch plenty of times, but it just starts malfunctioning on the 2nd day. Koncept Motors now tells me that the Battery is not able to give the proper current to the Micro Hybrid system and hence, this is malfunctioning. Though, I have been reporting this issue in less than a years' time of purchasing this vehicle and now after 2.5+ years, they came back with this illogical story!

Please let me have your expert comments, is this really the correct analysis by Koncept Motors or are they just shrugging their responsibility? The vehicle starts normally in the mornings and at all times and have not faced any issues with the battery otherwise and have not got any indications of weakness of the same in any form.

Please advice.
It appears that the problem in your car could be the battery but this is what you need to understand and do to isolate the problem. Firstly, starting of the car in the morning will happen even if the battery has just 10 - 11 volts. However, for the Micro Hybrid to work, the battery needs to have 12 volts at all times.

The difference between the Micro Hybrid battery and the regular Scorpio battery is that the ampere rating of the Micro Hybrid is 72 amps as against 65 amps for the regular Scorpio. However earlier models of the Scorpio Micro Hybrid also came with 65 amps (yours must be one) which was increased to 72 amperes to handle the Micro Hybrid. The additional 7 ampere battery is available in the newer models of the Micro Hybrid.

The 72 ampere batteries are difficult to come by and before you buy one, you could ask them to fit one as a demo to show you that it is the battery that is at fault. Check whether the Micro Hybrid is working with the demo battery before buying the new battery.

The life of the Micro Hybrid battery is similar to normal batteries and can vary from 2.5 to 4 years depending on usage pattern. So considering that you have got 3.5 years (and not 2.5 yrs as stated by you) the battery has served you well.

Going forward you may adopt the following practices to prolong the life of the Micro Hybrid battery - (a) avoid sudden starts from traffic lights or whenever you move from standstill and gradually increase speed. (b) learn to coast (use neutral) and come to a stand still whenever possible. These two will help increase the life of your Micro Hybrid's battery.
Happy Motoring!

Last edited by VeyronSuperSprt : 21st November 2013 at 16:53.
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Old 21st November 2013, 18:04   #4
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Default Re: Micro-Hybrid issues in Mahindra Scorpio

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
It appears that the problem in your car could be the battery but this is what you need to understand and do to isolate the problem. Firstly, starting of the car in the morning will happen even if the battery has just 10 - 11 volts. However, for the Micro Hybrid to work, the battery needs to have 12 volts at all times.

The difference between the Micro Hybrid battery and the regular Scorpio battery is that the ampere rating of the Micro Hybrid is 72 amps as against 65 amps for the regular Scorpio. However earlier models of the Scorpio Micro Hybrid also came with 65 amps (yours must be one) which was increased to 72 amperes to handle the Micro Hybrid. The additional 7 ampere battery is available in the newer models of the Micro Hybrid.

The 72 ampere batteries are difficult to come by and before you buy one, you could ask them to fit one as a demo to show you that it is the battery that is at fault. Check whether the Micro Hybrid is working with the demo battery before buying the new battery.

The life of the Micro Hybrid battery is similar to normal batteries and can vary from 2.5 to 4 years depending on usage pattern. So considering that you have got 3.5 years (and not 2.5 yrs as stated by you) the battery has served you well.

Going forward you may adopt the following practices to prolong the life of the Micro Hybrid battery - (a) avoid sudden starts from traffic lights or whenever you move from standstill and gradually increase speed. (b) learn to coast (use neutral) and come to a stand still whenever possible. These two will help increase the life of your Micro Hybrid's battery.
Happy Motoring!
Thanks for the details, however, the Amron battery service center has checked the battery and given their report as "absolutely fine"....any insight on what could possibly be the issue, since, I have been facing this issue from 6th month onwards. Appreciate all your help and insight on the subject.
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Old 21st November 2013, 19:24   #5
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Default Re: Micro-Hybrid issues in Mahindra Scorpio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeet_s View Post
Thanks for the details, however, the Amron battery service center has checked the battery and given their report as "absolutely fine"....any insight on what could possibly be the issue, since, I have been facing this issue from 6th month onwards. Appreciate all your help and insight on the subject.
The Amaron service centre would have tested your battery for its capability to handle normal duties all of which will work if the battery is less than 12 volts. it is the Micro Hybrid that needs constant 12 volts.

Mahindra increased the ampere rating of the Micro Hybrid battery because of initial problems experienced with the 65 ampere battery and I think your battery must be the 65 ampere one which must be why you experienced problems right from the beginning.

As I've said in my earlier post, just to be doubly sure get the dealer to show you that changing the battery will remove the issue by giving you a demo battery and see if the Micro Hybrid works and replace only after that is done.

Last edited by VeyronSuperSprt : 21st November 2013 at 19:26.
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Old 21st November 2013, 20:53   #6
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Default Re: Micro-Hybrid issues in Mahindra Scorpio

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
Going forward you may adopt the following practices to prolong the life of the Micro Hybrid battery - (a) avoid sudden starts from traffic lights or whenever you move from standstill and gradually increase speed. (b) learn to coast (use neutral) and come to a stand still whenever possible. These two will help increase the life of your Micro Hybrid's battery.
Hi,
How do these help?

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 21st November 2013, 21:24   #7
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Default Re: Micro-Hybrid issues in Mahindra Scorpio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Hi,
How do these help?

Regards
Sutripta
Hi, when coasting etc, the electric motors of the micro
hybrid turn into a generator which helps reduce the drain on the battery.
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Old 21st November 2013, 22:57   #8
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Default Re: Micro-Hybrid issues in Mahindra Scorpio

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
Hi, when coasting etc, the electric motors of the microhybrid turn into a generator which helps reduce the drain on the battery.
The Scorpio's Micro Hybrid system has no such motor/generator. It's also known simply as an ESS (engine start-stop) system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeet_s View Post
...Micro Hybrid! I have changed the sensors and the switch plenty of times...
Koncept Motors now tells me that the Battery is not able to give the proper current to the Micro Hybrid system and hence, this is malfunctioning. Though, I have been reporting this issue in less than a years' time of purchasing this vehicle and now after 2.5+ years, they came back with this illogical story!
I am sure you've done right proper research about the MicroHybrid system in the last 2.5 years, given the frequent issues you've faced with the system. I am surprised that Koncept couldn't fix it (BTW, which workshop was this - Okhla or NOIDA?) and are now blaming battery voltage. Since you mention that all the external sensors/switches have been changed, I wonder if
  • they've checked the neutral position sensor (GNS) on the gear lever for proper adjustment / functioning;
  • there is any error code being displayed on scanning the ECM;
  • the ignition key is sticky after cranking (doesn't return to 'on' position);
  • you are using an additional floor mat, which prevents complete travel of the clutch pedal (make sure only the carpet is present between the clutch pedal and floor);
  • the alternator is charging the battery at the correct voltage.
Take a look at certain 'must-do' procedures for the Micro Hybrid system to work properly - I hope you're not missing out on anything.

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And I presume you are covered under extended warranty.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 21st November 2013 at 23:01.
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Old 22nd November 2013, 10:37   #9
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Default Re: Micro-Hybrid issues in Mahindra Scorpio

Ok, Here are certain additional things:

1) The battery which I'm currently using is the one which came along with the vehicle (OEM Installed). I have not changed the battery and hence wouls assume that it is 72amps.

2) As per Koncept Okhla, the Micro Hybrid is not covered under the extended warranty, which is a bit weird, as I checked with another provider in another city and as per them it is covered! Earlier as well, I noticed that unless one argues with koncept, they generally do not agree for the extended warranty to sensors etc.!

3) I always follow the system of rolling the vehicle before coming to a stop on the traffic signals or otherwise....switch off my head lights when I come to a halt...this is the practice I have for all my cars. I do not do any sudden acceleration or sudden breaking, either.

I would definitely check for the stuff mentioned on the check list and post my findings so that it benefits all others who may be facing similar issues.
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Old 22nd November 2013, 11:04   #10
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Default Re: Micro-Hybrid issues in Mahindra Scorpio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeet_s View Post
2) As per Koncept Okhla, the Micro Hybrid is not covered under the extended warranty, which is a bit weird, as I checked with another provider in another city and as per them it is covered! Earlier as well, I noticed that unless one argues with koncept, they generally do not agree for the extended warranty to sensors etc.!
About the point quoted above, it's not a question of what they think or what you think is covered/not covered. The extended warranty booklet [separate from the owner's manual] very clearly lists down the items under extended warranty coverage. Please refer that booklet to check if Micro Hybrid is covered or not.

Cheers,
Vikram
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Old 22nd November 2013, 11:43   #11
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Default Re: Micro-Hybrid issues in Mahindra Scorpio

You are absolutely right Vikram. Unfortunately, despite our follow ups with Koncept, we never did receive the booklet and when we protested, they gave us a printout from the system and then started to dispute that the policy was bought in 2010 and they have changed the same W.E.F 2011 onwards, which I contended really hard with them and finally,, when my vehicle broke down in Chandigarh, the extended warranty was honored for the hydraulic clutch cylinder by the provider which was as per the policy.

I sited this example to Koncept and they at first did not believe this when I showed them the bill (which was only for the towing charges), they were totally surprised and informed me that the provider will get a debit note from the company, which has not happened yet!!

My observation is that different providers in different cities work on different understanding and most of the providers are not really clear about the coverage under the extended warranty, which maybe a loose end from the company itself!
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Old 22nd November 2013, 12:04   #12
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Default Re: Micro-Hybrid issues in Mahindra Scorpio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeet_s View Post
2) As per Koncept Okhla, the Micro Hybrid is not covered under the extended warranty, which is a bit weird,
It is .. weird
The Micro-Hybrid from Mahindra is integrated into the vehicle's system - it is not an add on that can be excluded.
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Old 22nd November 2013, 12:40   #13
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Default Re: Micro-Hybrid issues in Mahindra Scorpio

As far as I know,
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
The Scorpio's Micro Hybrid system has no such motor/generator. It's also known simply as an ESS (engine start-stop) system.
and thus was wondering about the advice on coasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
Hi, when coasting etc, the electric motors of the micro
hybrid turn into a generator which helps reduce the drain on the battery.
and the no rapid acceleration part.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 22nd November 2013, 12:44   #14
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Default Re: Micro-Hybrid issues in Mahindra Scorpio

One more time, i still cant understand what is the real issue you are facing? Could you please tell what is the actual issue with the micro-hybrid system?

Regarding battery 3 years is a good time frame for an OE battery, so things can go down. But yes you never know, i personally have had battery lasting for more than 5 years also in cars.
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Old 22nd November 2013, 13:01   #15
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I just had a word with the CCM Mahindra Delhi and he has directed Koncept Motors to change the battery and let me drive the vehicle for 7 - 10 days, but before they do this, they have been directed to make 100% sure that the problem will not occur with the changed battery!

Let's see what comes up next and will post the findings and the solution that may be provided by the dealership for rectification of this error!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
One more time, i still cant understand what is the real issue you are facing? Could you please tell what is the actual issue with the micro-hybrid system?

Regarding battery 3 years is a good time frame for an OE battery, so things can go down. But yes you never know, i personally have had battery lasting for more than 5 years also in cars.
Hi Jaggu, The micro hybrid system works once in a while at its own will and the day it functions, it just works for once and that's it and sleeps forever (may I say just like our Govt!!!) Even after the sensors or the switch is changed, the damn thing works only for a day or two and then it starts to malfunction!

Hope I have made it a bit simpler to understand the issue.

Last edited by Jaggu : 22nd November 2013 at 13:10.
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