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Old 24th November 2013, 11:11   #31
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Is that specific to European marques, or is something like Ford's EcoBoost also at risk? (I ask with vested self-interest ) It would appear that the EcoBoost and TSI are technologically similar - direct injection, turbocharged petrols.
This is true for an Ecoboost as well. My friend's Ecosport is sitting in the workshop ever since he bought it. In 1 month of ownership, he's driven only about 1000 kms and that too includes 3-400 km in test runs by the dealer itself. There's an engine malfunction error that comes up on the MID, steering lock error also pops up.

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Typical attitude problem - Pathetic. I have seen this in some VW workshops as well. Our own Moderator Ajmat had a similar service attitude issue with his Jetta. After this issue is sorted out, try changing the dealer, for future service requirements. Accident repairs can be different, as it requires numerous parts which are unforeseen. But a dealer cannot site this as an excuse for a "running problem". They should keep all necessary spares in stock - Especially the electro-mechanical ones. This is an era of triple "S" - Sales, Service & Spares under one roof. Even if spares are not available with the dealer, it hardly takes a maximum of 2 working days, to get them from any part of India. Down-time of more than a week for any "running issue" is not acceptable. Mineral oil requires more frequent change. But this recall should solve the problem with DQ200. In your case, has the gear box come filled with mineral oil? Need not be only because of bad fuel - it can even be a pre-mature failure. Even this is acceptable. After all, warranty is provided to cover such failures.
The concern of the dealer was also true as he showed me his accounts! Now who would do that? He showed me that he has been debited for 7 Mechatronic units which were VIN Specific but now their software is out dated and hence cannot be used. Hence if spares are not available, it takes them at least 14 days to get them. I have only one dealer here unfortunately.

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Old 24th November 2013, 14:47   #32
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

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Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead View Post
The concern of the dealer was also true as he showed me his accounts! Now who would do that? He showed me that he has been debited for 7 Mechatronic units which were VIN Specific but now their software is out dated and hence cannot be used. Hence if spares are not available, it takes them at least 14 days to get them. I have only one dealer here unfortunately.
That's really poor network and market expansion practise. If they squeeze the dealer then how do they instill confidence with customers who face these dealers for service ? and buy such expensive vehicles with a certain trust factor ?

I think Skoda's will finally end up with customers who are dealer's relatives and friends , everyone else will have this fear factor , especially those reading these threads as well as past one's.

I hope they soon do something visible and real for their network , especially when their flagship has just entered the market.

Instead of showing teddy bears and figurines dancing to the octavia's music they should invest in ensuring the network dances to the customers expectations something Mahindra seems to have managed with the XUV niggles.
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Old 24th November 2013, 16:41   #33
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

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Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
Accident repairs can be different, as it requires numerous parts which are unforeseen. But a dealer cannot site this as an excuse for a "running problem". They should keep all necessary spares in stock - Especially the electro-mechanical ones.

This is an era of triple "S" - Sales, Service & Spares under one roof. Even if spares are not available with the dealer, it hardly takes a maximum of 2 working days, to get them from any part of India. Down-time of more than a week for any "running issue" is not acceptable.
I fully agree on this but what Skoda feel is why keep stocks of spares that move and loose out inventory, moreover dead inventory. The worst part is they keep the customer waiting for 15-20 days for a part. Call the nearest Skoda dealer or ASC and fly in the part from there on priority basis and give the car back to the customer in a day or two!

How hard can it be?!

Anurag.
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Old 24th November 2013, 20:54   #34
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

The 1.8TSI engine in your car is the 3rd generation of the EA888 and while there are several changes to this engine from the earlier 1.8 TSi sold in India, there have been none to the fuel pump.

Your first issue :

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Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead View Post
Faulty fuel quality led to unwanted reactions in the catalytic convertor...
and your second:

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Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead View Post
Apparently the fuel pump had failed.
are interrelated in that they could both happen due to faulty fuel. One of the major causes of fuel pump failure is faulty fuel.

It appears possible that:

(a) The fuel quality that is being filled in your car is adulterated or impure regardless of the fact that you have been filling in fuel at a reputed pump.

or

(b) The fuel tank fitted to your new car may have contained some contaminants / impurities although this is highly unlikely in a new car

Knowing that you had a problem with your catalytic converter on account of poor fuel quality, what did you do to prevent another problem on account of a faulty fuel situation recurring? It looks like you continued filing in petrol from the same pump that gave you faulty fuel problems with the cat-con and this has resulted in the fuel pump problem too. Faulty fuel can happen even in reputed pumps on account of several reasons - it may have just been a batch, they may have just cleaned their tanks or fixed a new tank, or it is possible that the tanker lorry drivers adulterated the fuel without their knowledge etc. Did you have the fuel quality checked? Did you fill in the petrol or did you give the car to your driver and did he fill in the petrol from some other pump?

Going forward it would be advisable to ask Skoda to specify what exactly they mean by "faulty fuel" as this will help you decide the course of action which could be either:

(1) Requesting the dealer to have the fuel tank removed and cleaned, and or

(2) Changing the petrol pump from where you have been regularly filling in fuel.
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Old 24th November 2013, 21:35   #35
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The 1.8TSI engine in your car is the 3rd generation of the EA888 and while there are several changes to this engine from the earlier 1.8 TSi sold in India, there have been none to the fuel pump. Your first issue : and your second: are interrelated in that they could both happen due to faulty fuel. One of the major causes of fuel pump failure is faulty fuel. It appears possible that: (a) The fuel quality that is being filled in your car is adulterated or impure regardless of the fact that you have been filling in fuel at a reputed pump. or (b) The fuel tank fitted to your new car may have contained some contaminants / impurities although this is highly unlikely in a new car Knowing that you had a problem with your catalytic converter on account of poor fuel quality, what did you do to prevent another problem on account of a faulty fuel situation recurring? It looks like you continued filing in petrol from the same pump that gave you faulty fuel problems with the cat-con and this has resulted in the fuel pump problem too. Faulty fuel can happen even in reputed pumps on account of several reasons - it may have just been a batch, they may have just cleaned their tanks or fixed a new tank, or it is possible that the tanker lorry drivers adulterated the fuel without their knowledge etc. Did you have the fuel quality checked? Did you fill in the petrol or did you give the car to your driver and did he fill in the petrol from some other pump? Going forward it would be advisable to ask Skoda to specify what exactly they mean by "faulty fuel" as this will help you decide the course of action which could be either: (1) Requesting the dealer to have the fuel tank removed and cleaned, and or (2) Changing the petrol pump from where you have been regularly filling in fuel.
As the first fault with the cat-con was pointed to the fuel quality, the course of action at Skoda was to completely flush out all the fuel in the car and fill it with new petrol after checking the quality. So I assume that the tank should have been cleaned because the noise vanished almost immediately. Of course after this event I changed the fuel station and did checks before filling in. A standard fuel sample was given to me by Skoda and I compared all my fuel ups post this event and still do. There is nothing wrong with the petrol or the petrol station I use to fill up. Its my personal car and no body ever drove it besides me so all the fuel station trips have been done by me and me alone. When I asked that am i supposed to go and check the fuel quality of each and every pump and then narrow down my choices? And what am I supposed to do when I am travelling on a highway where I won't have much choice? Carry jerry cans of fuel with me from the preferred pump? Bull shit Skoda! And then finally the service manager laughs it off and tells me its entirely based on your luck. He also made fun of the fact that Skoda has not been able to adopt the Indian fuel and climatic conditions as yet and still be called German Engineering, we need Indian Engineering, words of the service manager. For now my fuel station is fixed, I dont change it, and trying to fill up every time the tank goes below half.
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Old 24th November 2013, 22:03   #36
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

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Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
Did you have the fuel quality checked? Did you fill in the petrol or did you give the car to your driver and did he fill in the petrol from some other pump?

Going forward it would be advisable to ask Skoda to specify what exactly they mean by "faulty fuel" as this will help you decide the course of action which could be either:

(1) Requesting the dealer to have the fuel tank removed and cleaned, and or

(2) Changing the petrol pump from where you have been regularly filling in fuel.

How often does one go to a pump to fill fuel and ask the dealer to check the fuel quality before filling up ? Bad enough coming in front of the queue. On what parameters ? Does one carry a lab in the dicky (hence the rear seat dicky access ?) And who's to know what the next pump might offer ? I think for such situations there should be OEM certified pumps which the OEM advises their customers to visit.

It remains to be seen how sensitive this system is to fuel contamination. Let's hope this was a one off for some other reason and thankfully got happily and relatively quickly settled. Imagine after warranty what happens , or even during warranty the OEM refuses to accept the claim.

What the dealer does in his workshop and reports to the car owner is a matter of hope and who is the dealer with ? the OEM or the customer ?

Whether it's the fuel line , the fuel quality , the fuel tank or the pump - c'mon SKODA is not new here , they know our operating conditions. Did all those cars that visited the fuel pump before and after ADI have the same problem ?? I guess not.

We've seen spyshots of these cars running all over the place - on OEM supplied fuel ?? most probably..
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Old 25th November 2013, 10:39   #37
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

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Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead View Post
they had a brand new fuel pump in stock, and it was replaced. The car is working fine now.
You have unfortunately had two issues with your car almost simultaneously and both have had to do with faulty fuel. Replacement of the fuel pump is not a complete solution as all that it has done is to alleviate the immediate problem. It would be advisable to get Skoda to specify exactly what they mean by “faulty fuel” and take preventive / corrective action so that other fuel related problems do not occur. Was it adulterated fuel or dirty fuel or fuel containing rust particles or an RON rating issue etc. You would then need to take corrective action accordingly.

If it is the first two, it is a matter of changing the petrol pump which you have already done, if it is rust particles then you would have to have the fuel tank replaced etc. If it were a RON rating problem, then it would be far more severe as it indicates that Skoda hasn’t done it’s homework properly and could lead to more fuel related problems with your car.

The noises from the cat-con are from unburnt fuel reaching there and exploding in the cat-con and this is cause for concern as it could be a RON related issue. (fuel of a different RON rating not being completely burnt by the engine and going into the exhaust). Additionally, the explosions in the cat-con may have also caused minor damage to the interior of the cat-con.

Either way, it would be advisable not to use your car extensively until you take preventive /corrective action after finding out what Skoda actually means by “faulty fuel” so as to prevent another fuel-system related problem occurring.

Last edited by VeyronSuperSprt : 25th November 2013 at 10:50.
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Old 25th November 2013, 13:22   #38
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

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Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
You have unfortunately had two issues with your car almost simultaneously and both have had to do with faulty fuel. Replacement of the fuel pump is not a complete solution as all that it has done is to alleviate the immediate problem. It would be advisable to get Skoda to specify exactly what they mean by “faulty fuel” and take preventive / corrective action so that other fuel related problems do not occur. Was it adulterated fuel or dirty fuel or fuel containing rust particles or an RON rating issue etc. You would then need to take corrective action accordingly.

If it is the first two, it is a matter of changing the petrol pump which you have already done, if it is rust particles then you would have to have the fuel tank replaced etc. If it were a RON rating problem, then it would be far more severe as it indicates that Skoda hasn’t done it’s homework properly and could lead to more fuel related problems with your car.

The noises from the cat-con are from unburnt fuel reaching there and exploding in the cat-con and this is cause for concern as it could be a RON related issue. (fuel of a different RON rating not being completely burnt by the engine and going into the exhaust). Additionally, the explosions in the cat-con may have also caused minor damage to the interior of the cat-con.

Either way, it would be advisable not to use your car extensively until you take preventive /corrective action after finding out what Skoda actually means by “faulty fuel” so as to prevent another fuel-system related problem occurring.
According to the dealer, the fuel had additives in it, which is not accepted by the car's system. It was not adulterated, and it was free from rust particles. Only issue was he said it had some additives in it which were not burning completely and as said by you, emitting the noise from the Cat-con.
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Old 25th November 2013, 15:38   #39
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

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Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead View Post
According to the dealer, the fuel had additives in it, which is not accepted by the car's system. It was not adulterated, and it was free from rust particles. Only issue was he said it had some additives in it which were not burning completely and as said by you, emitting the noise from the Cat-con.
Firstly fuels having additives and not being accepted by the car’s system should not be termed by the dealer / company as “faulty fuel” unless they have already warned you against using premium fuels which contain additives.

Secondly, if the fuel was not "faulty fuel", why did the dealer give you a fuel sample and how did he expect that to help you?

Thirdly, you say you carried out checks before filling in fuel – what checks did you do to ascertain that the fuel did not contain additives?

This is really a big dampener on the potential of the new 1.8TSi. All of this only indicates that Skoda haven’t done their homework properly. Additives are standard in Speed , ExtraPremium etc and the company / dealer should have warned you to prevent such a situation from arising. You are probably only filling in regular petrol to avoid these additives.

This is yet another area where the VAG group has unleashed new technology that is not yet fully tested – the 3G EA888 has most of its changes in the fuel system and it looks like Skoda will have it’s work cut out if they have to sort this one out.
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Old 25th November 2013, 17:29   #40
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Arrow Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

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Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post

This is really a big dampener on the potential of the new 1.8TSi. All of this only indicates that Skoda haven’t done their homework properly. Additives are standard in Speed , ExtraPremium etc and the company / dealer should have warned you to prevent such a situation from arising. You are probably only filling in regular petrol to avoid these additives.

This is yet another area where the VAG group has unleashed new technology that is not yet fully tested – the 3G EA888 has most of its changes in the fuel system and it looks like Skoda will have it’s work cut out if they have to sort this one out.
This is quite surprising. To my knowledge, even Shell adds additives to it's petrol. Or am I wrong?

Cat-con needs to be checked in detail, to avoid another surprise down the line....
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Old 25th November 2013, 22:40   #41
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

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Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
This is quite surprising. To my knowledge, even Shell adds additives to it's petrol. Or am I wrong?
Yes, they do.

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Cat-con needs to be checked in detail, to avoid another surprise down the line....
Preferably replaced under warranty straightaway.
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Old 25th November 2013, 22:56   #42
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Went on a long-ish trip today, no hiccups, no jerks, no noises, only the smooth engine and the addictive turbo whistle. Used cruise control extensively though. Chetan ji, and Veyron, will surely get the cat con checked, but since I have no other car to my disposal as of now, I would wait for a week or so. But honestly, I fear that if I do get it checked, there could be a chance that they mis-fit it after checking, and I am seriously concerned about future problems like rattles, leaks, etc!
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Old 26th November 2013, 07:55   #43
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Firstly fuels having additives and not being accepted by the car's system should not be termed by the dealer / company as "faulty fuel" unless they have already warned you against using premium fuels which contain additives.
Am in no mood to defend Skoda but I have to say that my Skoda dealer was very clear that I should NOT use Speed or other fuels with additives. The manual also says that clearly - viz. no additives are needed and fuels with metal based additives (not sure if Speed or Power are in that category) should NOT be used. So there is a warning at least in the manual. Clearly, if the dealer failed with warn Adi, he was at fault - but the manufacturer would be well within his rights to claim that users should read the owners manual.
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Old 26th November 2013, 11:00   #44
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

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Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
The 1.8TSI engine in your car is the 3rd generation of the EA888 and while there are several changes to this engine from the earlier 1.8 TSi sold in India, there have been none to the fuel pump.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
You have unfortunately had two issues with your car almost simultaneously and both have had to do with faulty fuel. Replacement of the fuel pump is not a complete solution
A thought just struck me : The No.1 cause of fuel pump failure is running the tank on fumes (i.e. with barely any fuel).

@ Adi : Did you ever run the car with very low fuel? Was it delivered to you that way? It's a known fact that dealers run new cars on incredibly low fuel levels (say, when driving from the yard to the showroom).
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Old 26th November 2013, 12:00   #45
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

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Am in no mood to defend Skoda but I have to say that my Skoda dealer was very clear that I should NOT use Speed or other fuels with additives. The manual also says that clearly - viz. no additives are needed and fuels with metal based additives (not sure if Speed or Power are in that category) should NOT be used. So there is a warning at least in the manual. Clearly, if the dealer failed with warn Adi, he was at fault - but the manufacturer would be well within his rights to claim that users should read the owners manual.
I'm not sure of the names of premium fuels, but does 97 Octane petrol available in a few BP bunks contain additives? I always go for normal IOC or Shell petrol, and use system G on and off. It was only once that I tanked up with 97 Octane fuel, just to see its effect. The engine did get more silent and revv-happy, but the cost was hurting my pocket.

@adi_petrolhead--glad to know that your car is ship shape now. I wish you many niggle-free miles on it.
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