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Old 26th November 2013, 12:50   #46
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

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Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead View Post
According to the dealer, the fuel had additives in it, which is not accepted by the car's system. It was not adulterated, and it was free from rust particles. Only issue was he said it had some additives in it which were not burning completely and as said by you, emitting the noise from the Cat-con.
Did you fill up regular unleaded petrol or additive mixed fuel like Speed/ Power/ premium etc....? I just scanned through my Laura TSI's user manual and they have not mentioned anything about not using additive mixed fuel. All they say is we should use Unleaded petrol with 91 RON or higher.

I have always used regular unleaded petrol and avoided using additive mixed fuel. But every once in while I tank up with additive mixed fuel as it helps to keep the injectors clean. In the US some amount of these deposit control additives are required to be added to petrol by law.

Off late I have been using Speed 97, mainly for the higher octane. I am now wondering whether the additives present in it will have any long term effect on the cat con and fuel system.
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Old 26th November 2013, 12:59   #47
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

The issue that could have occurred here is that the fuel station owner(s) may not be maintaining their tanks & pumps in good condition. The tank might have collected dirt/soil over a period of time and might have found its way to your fuel tank, creating havoc. Who knows, they may have even washed their tank with water and then filed with petrol or a tank that was used to store diesel might now be used to store petrol.

Please try and have your petrol tank and supply systems cleaned as well.

One interesting observation from my side: I used to fill diesel from shell ever since I bought my cars. However, I started filling from the nearby HP fuel station. I must say, I'm observing better performance and fuel economy with HP diesel than Shell. This still leaves me puzzled. With shell, the fuel economy was around 10km/l while with HP its about 12-13.5km/l in the city!

Last edited by nitinbose : 26th November 2013 at 13:01.
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Old 26th November 2013, 14:21   #48
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

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Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
Am in no mood to defend Skoda but I have to say that my Skoda dealer was very clear that I should NOT use Speed or other fuels with additives. The manual also says that clearly - viz. no additives are needed and fuels with metal based additives (not sure if Speed or Power are in that category) should NOT be used. So there is a warning at least in the manual. Clearly, if the dealer failed with warn Adi, he was at fault - but the manufacturer would be well within his rights to claim that users should read the owners manual.
What does the term "additive" refer in this case?
I think you (as well as other Skoda owners) need to ask this upfront.

From what I know, you can have stuff added to improve the Octane number of the petrol (typically true for high octane fuel). These can be metal based like TEL, MMT or "more organic" ethers like TAME, MTBE, ETBE

You can have stuff added to improve the surfactant parameters of the petrol (and thus "cleanse the engine")

You can also have alcohol added to reduce the cost of petrol (happens in Brazil).

And of course the orange, red color that you see is an additive dye. The petrol in a refinery looks like clear water.

So what all would the Skoda engineers label as dangerous for their engines?
Next we will have to visit the Oil companies to know what all they are adding to the petrol.


Edit: here is the list of additives mentioned in Wikipedia. (far greater than I thought!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_additive
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Old 26th November 2013, 15:51   #49
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
A thought just struck me : The No.1 cause of fuel pump failure is running the tank on fumes (i.e. with barely any fuel). @ Adi : Did you ever run the car with very low fuel? Was it delivered to you that way? It's a known fact that dealers run new cars on incredibly low fuel levels (say, when driving from the yard to the showroom).
When I got the delivery of the car they told me that it had 5 liters of fuel in it. Which is 10% of their said capacity. Now as I drove away from the showroom, there were a few idles also with the AC on, showing some features to the family n friends, by the time I reached the Petrol Pump, the range had been Zero since quite some time and the needle was kissing '0' . So yes, there was barely any fuel when they gave me the car. Their claim of 50 litre tank is also incorrect. When I tanked up, the fuel put in was close to 53 litres. Since then, i had it refuelled every time it was close to a quarter tank, but the exact moment when the pump failed, there was less than a quarter tank of fuel and I was on my way to the pump! Just about a km away.

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Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
Did you fill up regular unleaded petrol or additive mixed fuel like Speed/ Power/ premium etc....? I just scanned through my Laura TSI's user manual and they have not mentioned anything about not using additive mixed fuel. All they say is we should use Unleaded petrol with 91 RON or higher. I have always used regular unleaded petrol and avoided using additive mixed fuel. But every once in while I tank up with additive mixed fuel as it helps to keep the injectors clean. In the US some amount of these deposit control additives are required to be added to petrol by law. Off late I have been using Speed 97, mainly for the higher octane. I am now wondering whether the additives present in it will have any long term effect on the cat con and fuel system.
I know that 'premium' and 'super' fuels were mere gimmicks and never filled them in my cars. Same is the case with this one, the attendant offered me to fill up with Shell Advanced, but I declined and instead went for regular Shell. Now at the time of the noise issue in the cat-con, we took a fuel sample from the engine and the result was shocking, even to a lay man. The difference in colors, was ridiculous. The Shell sample was lighter yellow compared to the deep orange and brownish standard petrol they had to compare with. The smells both petrols were emitting were entirely different. The Shell had some additives for sure based on that, as it had a more pungent smell than that of regular petrol. But reading Alpha1's post, I am not sure how to judge standard petrol and one mixed with additives. I am super confused and frustrated everytime I drive the car now. How can a person be afraid of a petrol pump? I am now

Last edited by Jaggu : 2nd December 2013 at 19:05.
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Old 26th November 2013, 20:54   #50
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Arrow Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

Adi, I am extremely sorry to hear this.

IMHO, it is not Octavia's mistake nor the Petrol bunk's - Clearly it is Skoda's (VAG) mistake for jumping the trigger, without caring to do their homework.

Unfortunately, early birds suffer!

When I took delivery of my Jetta, fuel gauge was already in RED and I was given a coupon for 5 liters of diesel. When I enquired, I was told that the car can run for 50 kms after the needle hits zero!!! Luckily, bunk was very close-by. Otherwise, I too would have been in a similar situation!!

How much money does it take for the dealer to fill 1/2 tank and hand over the car to the customer? After purchasing such expensive products, these stingy-unprofessional attitude of the supplier, creates such nuisance. And this is after charging the customer for all those un-warranted extras during delivery!! Ridiculous!!!

I always thought Shell bunks to be the holy-grail. I would close my eyes and go to any shell bunk and get any damn fuel that they have (with or without additives - Off course, only diesel for me). Now I am Shell shocked!!
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Old 27th November 2013, 10:45   #51
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead View Post
I am not sure how to judge standard petrol and one mixed with additives. I am super confused and frustrated everytime I drive the car now. How can a person be afraid of a petrol pump? I am now
You really need to dog with the Skoda engineers and technicians and ask them very specifically which additives are harmful for their delicate machinery.

Next you should ask them to categorically provide you with which all make/brands in India comply with their requirement.

They have introduced the vehicle in India, they have a responsibility of ensuring that whatever they put in Indian market runs on fuel that is available here (and we are not talking about water and sludge mixed petrol - for which Skoda cannot be held responsible).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post

I always thought Shell bunks to be the holy-grail. I would close my eyes and go to any shell bunk and get any damn fuel that they have (with or without additives - Off course, only diesel for me). Now I am Shell shocked!!
Why would you trust Shell pumps blindly, but distrust the others?

Besides, I think my point about additives got diluted.
Additives are not really bad for the engine. Otherwise they wouldn't be allowed, and there would have been class action suits in the US.

There is nothing magical about Iso-Octane compound in the petrol (which is obtained from crude oil) that makes it the holy grail and other compounds which are added later (and thus called "additives") as not.

Last edited by alpha1 : 27th November 2013 at 10:49.
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Old 27th November 2013, 19:45   #52
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

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Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead View Post
I am super confused and frustrated everytime I drive the car now. How can a person be afraid of a petrol pump? I am now
There is no need to be scared about pumps, additives etc as the right inputs can be given. But in order to help you, there are a few clarifications / information gaps that you need to clear so that the inputs rendered to you are accurate:

1. Was it after your cat-con issue that Skoda gave you the fuel samples and advised you on the type of fuel to be filled in?

2. If that be the case, did the fuel pump fail even though you followed Skoda's advice on the fuel to be filled ?

3. If the answer to (2) is yes, what was the response of Skoda to the fuel pump also failing despite you following their advice?

Or

4. Did Skoda give you the advice on the fuel to be filled only after the fuel pump also failed?

Or

5. Did Skoda give you the advice after the cat failed and did you fail to follow that advice leading to fuel pump failure?

Last edited by VeyronSuperSprt : 27th November 2013 at 19:47.
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Old 29th November 2013, 18:28   #53
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

Hey Adi, have been following this thread closely as I was/am planning to buy the 1.8 TSI but after reading your experience, am not sure if I still should. And I have been looking to buy a car for the last 2 years and had finally decided on the 1.8 TSI after a lot of deliberation, taking into account Skoda's notorious A.S.S. but your experience has shaken my resolve. Am not sure what to do and so have decided to give it sometime and see how you and some of the others who have bought the new Octavia, feel about the car in a few months time. Do you have an ownership experience thread?
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Old 1st December 2013, 00:06   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
There is no need to be scared about pumps, additives etc as the right inputs can be given. But in order to help you, there are a few clarifications / information gaps that you need to clear so that the inputs rendered to you are accurate:
1. Was it after your cat-con issue that Skoda gave you the fuel samples and advised you on the type of fuel to be filled in? Yes! 2. If that be the case, did the fuel pump fail even though you followed Skoda's advice on the fuel to be filled ? Yes again. 3. If the answer to (2) is yes, what was the response of Skoda to the fuel pump also failing despite you following their advice? According to them some impurities would have been left behind and could have been the reason for this failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny310c View Post
Hey Adi, have been following this thread closely as I was/am planning to buy the 1.8 TSI but after reading your experience, am not sure if I still should.
This thread is pretty much my ownership review, and my experience with the car till date. There are others here as well with the 1.8 TSI and have had no issues. Honestly I can understand that the additives in fuel costed me these problems, and I was not aware about additives in the fuel! So although Skoda has clearly failed to make sure I was made aware of the fuel type to be used, I am currently not facing any issue with the car. I went on a 200 km long journey, the car returned excellent fuel economy close to 15 kmpl and there were no hiccups from the car throughout! I am loving every moment of it sans the pain of cleaning the car everyday since its black! But otherwise, if you have that kind of a budget, go for the TSI you will love every revv you make happen with your right foot! The turbo spool, the whistle, the engine roar, its enticing, addictive and pure pure performance! And I'll be very honest, I wish the same engine came with a six speed DSG instead of the 7 speed, as the latter is known to be less reliable. I was in awe every time I drove my Laura DSG two months ago, for two years. 7 speed on the other hand is smoother to shift, quicker upshifts and downshifts in manual and sports mode, and does not make any mechanical noises as the 6 speed DSG in the Laura made.

Last edited by Vid6639 : 2nd December 2013 at 13:43. Reason: just fixed a small typo. Thanks :)
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Old 2nd December 2013, 18:49   #55
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

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Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead View Post
This thread is pretty much my ownership review, and my experience with the car till date. There are others here as well with the 1.8 TSI and have had no issues. Honestly I can understand that the additives in fuel costed me these problems, and I was not aware about additives in the fuel! So although Skoda has clearly failed to make sure I was made aware of the fuel type to be used, I am currently not facing any issue with the car. I went on a 200 km long journey, the car returned excellent fuel economy close to 15 kmpl and there were no hiccups from the car throughout! I am loving every moment of it sans the pain of cleaning the car everyday since its black! But otherwise, if you have that kind of a budget, go for the TSI you will love every revv you make happen with your right foot! The turbo spool, the whistle, the engine roar, its enticing, addictive and pure pure performance! And I'll be very honest, I wish the same engine came with a six speed DSG instead of the 7 speed, as the latter is known to be less reliable. I was in awe every time I drove my Laura DSG two months ago, for two years. 7 speed on the other hand is smoother to shift, quicker upshifts and downshifts in manual and sports mode, and does not make any mechanical noises as the 6 speed DSG in the Laura made.
I thought your ownership experience was ruined by those problems you faced so early in the car's life but it's very encouraging to hear how you are enjoying every moment of the driving experience and that despite these hiccups, the car can still put a smile on your face and make you forget all the negatives about it. To tell you the truth, after having waited for so long for that perfect car, my only conclusion is that there is no such thing as a perfect car and that you have to choose the things that are dearest to you in a car and pick a car that has most of them. The Octavia has most of the things that I am looking for which are a good drive, lots of power/torque on tap, good amount of safety features, and a few gadgets and gizmos. Now, as long as I don't have to shell out an obscene amount of money towards A.S.S., I guess I am okay with it. Besides, what other choice do I have? I am not about to wait for another year for some other car to be launched. Instead, am just going to hang on to my wallet for a while and let people like you and others on here, who have the 1.8 TSI, share your ownership experiences and unless one of you has a real bad experience that makes me want to reconsider, I shall book the car sometime early next year.
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Old 11th December 2013, 10:56   #56
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

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Originally Posted by sunny310c View Post
I thought your ownership experience was ruined by those problems you faced so early in the car's life but it's very encouraging to hear how you are enjoying every moment of the driving experience and that despite these hiccups, the car can still put a smile on your face and make you forget all the negatives about it. To tell you the truth, after having waited for so long for that perfect car, my only conclusion is that there is no such thing as a perfect car and that you have to choose the things that are dearest to you in a car and pick a car that has most of them. The Octavia has most of the things that I am looking for which are a good drive, lots of power/torque on tap, good amount of safety features, and a few gadgets and gizmos. Now, as long as I don't have to shell out an obscene amount of money towards A.S.S., I guess I am okay with it. Besides, what other choice do I have? I am not about to wait for another year for some other car to be launched. Instead, am just going to hang on to my wallet for a while and let people like you and others on here, who have the 1.8 TSI, share your ownership experiences and unless one of you has a real bad experience that makes me want to reconsider, I shall book the car sometime early next year.
+1. The only car that satisfies all my requirements (power, handling, safety, gadgets etc) is the Octavia 1.8TSI. As of today, there isn't any other comparable car in the segment. Jetta 1.4TSI, if upgraded to the MQB platform, could be an option (atleast as an alternate to the Octavia 1.4TSI variants), but not sure when that will happen. Audi A4 1.8TFSI is another option, but that is about 10L dearer and hence out of reach.

There were two major concerns in selecting the Octavia 1.8TSI. First is the Skoda A.S.S horror stories. Though there have been a fair number of people who have suffered with this, there are also a fair number of people like dkaile, Hayek and Santhoshbhat who have good experience with their cars and the dealers. Also, the recent experience of adi_petrolhead also shows there is still hope with the dealers. The second is the DSG issues. It seems that all the major problems happened before 2012 and all latest information point out that VAG has fixed all the problems with the DSG and the reliability should improve.

So, I too have decided to wait for a few more weeks and if nothing alarming turns out, go ahead and book the 1.8TSI and leave the rest to fate!
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Old 2nd February 2014, 14:00   #57
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

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Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead View Post
I am loving every moment of it sans the pain of cleaning the car everyday since its black! But otherwise, if you have that kind of a budget, go for the TSI you will love every revv you make happen with your right foot! The turbo spool, the whistle, the engine roar, its enticing, addictive and pure pure performance! And I'll be very honest, I wish the same engine came with a six speed DSG instead of the 7 speed, as the latter is known to be less reliable.
Just to be insulated from the DSG woes, would you say the 1.4 TSI with the 6 Speed Manual gearbox is a better bet? Have you driven the 1.4 TSI? As a 1.8 owner, you would be able to present a clear perspective of the relative performance of the 1.4 viz-a-viz the 1.8. Requesting your opinion please.
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Old 2nd February 2014, 14:28   #58
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Just to be insulated from the DSG woes, would you say the 1.4 TSI with the 6 Speed Manual gearbox is a better bet? Have you driven the 1.4 TSI? As a 1.8 owner, you would be able to present a clear perspective of the relative performance of the 1.4 viz-a-viz the 1.8. Requesting your opinion please.

Hi Nikhil,

I have not driven the 1.4 TSI yet. What I know about it is listed below:

1u. Its the same 1.4 TSI as in the Jetta. I have driven the Jetta on highway test, and I felt the power (121 ps) to be more than adequate, along with good torque coming in between 1800-2000 RPM.

2u. The Octavia's 1.4 TSI however produces more torque, more power (140 ps) but there is a slight turbo lag and the max torque only comes in past 1800 RPM. Again I haven't driven it, extract from various people I know who have driven it.

3u. Is your running more on the highways? Less choc-o-block traffic? Then the 1.4 with 6MT is a good choice and a decent kit is offered on the Ambition variant, however I don't know whether they have started to deliver these cars yet.

4u. If your running is in the city, stop go traffic, frequent short trips, conditions where you are not going to engage 4th or even 3rd gear some times, then I am sure this 1.4 will hassle you. The late torque, turbo lag, slightly lesser refinement than the 1.8, al of these are adeadly combination for city driving I suppose. You will miss a DSG or any simple AT which will take you from point A to point B.

As currently my drive is 70-30 : Highway-City mix. I am able to get decent mileage too, thats 15 kmpl on highways and 11 kmpl in city. Combined mileage of 13 kmpl roughly. Its not bad for a 1.8 180 ps motor.

The best part is no lag! There is absolutely least turbo lag. Moment I press the accelerator, it goes like it should! Torque comes in very early under 1400-1500 RPM. So if its city driving with less highway runs, 1.8 TSI with DSG or else 2.0 TDI 6 MT is a good choice.

For Highways, it could be any of the lot and you wont be disappointed.

Note: mods, pls post this in the official review of the Octavia. I think the post belongs there. Thanks.
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Old 4th July 2014, 13:37   #59
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

Hi Adi,
I am close to making decision of buying Octavia 1.8 TSI.
While researching came across your thread - its sad you had to undergo stress early in ownership.
Can you summarize your experience so far? I believe no update on this thread for last 4 months is good news

Thanks
Sarang
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Old 4th July 2014, 15:09   #60
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Default Re: Skoda Octavia 1.8L DSG breakdown. Solved with fuel pump replacement

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Originally Posted by shyaGO View Post
I am close to making decision of buying Octavia 1.8 TSI.
You can probably check around his ownership thread
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...speed-dsg.html
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