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Old 23rd June 2006, 12:18   #1
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Default Diesel --> CNG/ LPG??

i tried searching but couldnt find an answer. can i fit a CNG/LPG kit in my diesel vehicle? i talked to one of the guyz here and he told me that i CAN NOT. any nputs?
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Old 23rd June 2006, 12:43   #2
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I do not know about the LPG part of it but I guess CNG is possible after all. Look at all those buses and trucks in Delhi... That should give you a cue. How easy or difficult that will be is an entirely different question though.
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Old 23rd June 2006, 18:24   #3
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May I suggest that you get in touch with a CNG Installer- Infact Since you own an Indica- You may want to speak with the TATA Authorised CNG Installer in Okhla called Shri Manker..Contact details are available on IGL Onlines Page...!
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Old 23rd June 2006, 18:47   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panky12345
i tried searching but couldnt find an answer. can i fit a CNG/LPG kit in my diesel vehicle? i talked to one of the guyz here and he told me that i CAN NOT. any nputs?
A CNG powered engine requires spark plugs for ignition, just like a petrol engine does. Hence conversion from petrol to CNG is easy. You also retain the option to run the vehicle on petrol when you desire.

Converting a diesel engine into CNG is also possible but requires considerable modification to the engine. You would need to provide for spark plugs for instance. If you want to run a "diesel-converted-into-CNG" on a fuel other than CNG, then, that fuel will have to be petrol, not diesel.

Converting diesel into CNG does not make any economic sense, though it may make sense environmentally.
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Old 23rd June 2006, 22:09   #5
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As far as i know, Petrol to CNG/LPG is too easy, but from diesel its too tough.
U need to modify the whole engine. Asked a mechanic, he said clear NO.

Prefer Petrol car & then convert to LPG
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Old 24th June 2006, 11:30   #6
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Diesel can be converted to only CNG, not LPG. But it needs works. Though a good CNG convertion workshop should be able to do it without to much ado.
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Old 9th May 2015, 05:37   #7
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Default Re: Diesel --> CNG/ LPG??

Dear Members,

The recent announcement by the NGT (National Green Tribunal) banning 10 year old diesel vehicles (including private passenger cars) from the roads of Delhi and the NCR has been a cause for concern for owners like me, who have diesel vehicles.

It seems clear that other state administrations will be taking the lead provided by the NGT, since no one wishes to be seen as being indifferent to issues of human health, particularly those concerning the health of our children. So other states too will be gearing up to take similar steps regarding older diesel vehicles.

I am a marine engineer, having recently opted for voluntary (and selective!) retirement. I also happen to be the owner of an older Mahindra Scorpio which will fall under this ban as and when it is introduced in UP. As I see it I have two options – one is to prepare for a parting of the ways with our well loved SUV, on which we have lavished a lot of TLC over the years. The second is to look for an alternative where one can have the cake and eat it too – and this is where the conversion from diesel to CNG comes in and also where this appeal to my fellow members.

Does anyone know of a professional workshop in his/her city where the conversion from diesel to CNG of passenger cars is being reliably carried out? I have used the word ‘reliably’ with prudence, since converting a car from diesel to CNG is different from the conversion of petrol to CNG. As we know, several cities have CNG powered buses and 3-wheeler autos (Vikram and similar makes) plying there; these vehicles have undergone the conversion from diesel to CNG successfully. Thus the technology is available; it has just not been extended to diesel passenger vehicles – at least not on a large scale to my knowledge.

With your permission (and keeping myself open to correction) I shall highlight a few of the issues that have occurred to me.
a) The compression ratios of the two engines are different – diesel with 20:1 as compared to petrol/CNG with 10:1, both figures being approximate.
b) The ignition systems are different – diesel with compression ignition using high pressure fuel injectors; whereas petrol/CNG has spark ignition using spark plugs. Both systems have elaborate associated equipment.
c) Whether the turbo charging system of the Scorpio, with its associated manifold plumbing (wastegate etc) will need changes to it too, or whether the t/charger will need to be removed altogether – and if so, what would be the effect on engine output.
d) What would be the comparable cost of such a conversion?

So, once again fellow members, I am making a request for any information regarding this issue – if you know of a professional organization/workshop carrying out this kind of conversion on passenger cars, I shall be very grateful if you would let me know, since I feel it would be of interest to many other folks facing a similar situation.

With thanks in anticipation!
Shashanka
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Old 9th May 2015, 13:14   #8
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Default Re: Diesel --> CNG/ LPG??

Quote:
Originally Posted by shashanka View Post
As we know, several cities have CNG powered buses and 3-wheeler autos (Vikram and similar makes) plying there; these vehicles have undergone the conversion from diesel to CNG successfully. Thus the technology is available; it has just not been extended to diesel passenger vehicles – at least not on a large scale to my knowledge.
Dear Shashanka,

If you want anything even close to reliability, then please quash this entire idea of diesel to CNG conversion.
The CNG powered buses and 3 wheelers are not the converted ones, albeit they are almost entirely different engines than the diesel engines.
Yes, initially, a few of the diesel buses were converted to CNG, but then that involved hefty kits and humongous modifications. Buses have space in excess, so such modifications(more of jugaads actually) can be carried out. The bus owners did not had any other option, because if they scrapped their new diesel buses, they would have faced direct loss in tunes of 18-20 lacs per bus, hence they were forced to convert and live with the conversion and frequent breakdowns associated with conversions.

The problems with your scorpio conversion would be:

1. No honest garage shall undertake this project. Some greedy guy may promise you sun and the moon and short change you on money and promises. A good garage would outrightly deny doing it.

2. Even if you get it done somehow magically, yours would be a unique vehicle always suffering as a guinea pig at the time of service. One of a kind vehicle shall pose maintenance and repair problems. You wont be feeling like a retired happy relaxing man any longer.

3. If you still insist after point 1 and 2, then think of the hassles at the Regional Transport Authority in getting all these modifications passed and endorsed on RC. Not to forget the modification to vehicle to fit in the CNG cylinder.

4. You cannot get the power and fuel efficiency of a company fitted CNG kit ever. So, despite spending big moolah(read >1 Lac), you would be left wanting on reliability, performance and VFM aspect. Even the running costs would be at par or exceeding the diesel running cost.

Better for you would be to sell the vehicle as it is, look for a used Grand Vitara and fit it with a CNG kit if so desired.

Regards
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Old 9th May 2015, 16:54   #9
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Default Re: Diesel --> CNG/ LPG??

Just see what you need:

1. Ignition system for the spark plugs.

2. Lowering of compression from 18+ to about 10. Will need a different head or a spacer!

3. Removal or extensive changes for the Turbo!

So even if possible I will say forget it.
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Old 11th May 2015, 22:56   #10
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Default Re: Diesel --> CNG/ LPG??

Hello Grr7 and sgiitk,

Thanks for your inputs and, depressing as it seems, I have to reluctantly admit and accept the merits of your suggestions.

I spent some time surfing and came across the following links which seem to suggest that dual-fuel technology is available currently alright, but it comes with a caveat.
The diesel engine (without modification, but with add-ons)) can be used to run on a gas/diesel mixture - 60% gas//40% diesel under optimum conditions.
But it is not possible to use the same engine - without mods - using 100% gas. At least not at the present state of the art!

The links that I found (among several others) after a cursory search :

1) http://www.prinsautogas.com/articles...2008/arai.html
2) http://www.westport.com/is/core-tech...tion/dual-fuel
3) www.dualfuel.org/
4) http://www.ngvaeurope.eu/.../NGVA-Eu...on-Paper-Dual- Fuel-...

Regards,
Shashanka
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